SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I wouldn't rush to believe what she told you about meeting a random guy at a bar. How do we know that is the case? Because that's what she told you. That's all. But you know now that she is a cheater and a liar so that doesn't mean much.

Is it possible it happened the way she said it did? Yes. But is there evidence for it? Only what a liar told you.

I would keep an open mind as to what is going on here - maybe she did just get picked up at a bar. If so, is it the first time that happened? Maybe. But who knows if that's her MO. Instead is it a full-blown A with someone that wasn't a one-time thing? I don't know if it matters to you or not but one thing is for sure is that all we really know right now is that your WW is a cheater and a liar. If you want to know the truth, you'll need to take all sorts of steps to find out.

Is it possible to speak to her girlfriend who was (allegedly) out with her that night?

I would be cautious to take "remorse" that only appeared after being caught lying. Please read on this site; as it is usually mentioned, remorse is assessed from actions not words, and it is not to be confused with regret.

[This message edited by sensibletinch at 6:23 AM, July 17th (Wednesday)]

I am completely overwhelmed with gratitude for everyone taking the time to respond to my post. Everyone provided such a wealth of insight and suggested next steps. I am going to re-read everyone's posts and let it all sink in before I decide how to proceed.

To clarify some of the information:

I saw a pic of my wife and her friend at dinner

My wife paid for her dinner

I don't know if meeting the AP was pre-arranged

She showed me her phone when I confronted her in the morning when she got home and there were texts between them telling her his address so it leads me to believe that this was her first time going to his place

My wife and her friend took an uber to the friends house, my wife got into her car and dove to the AP's house (that's how the evidence gave her away)

I woke her up that morning to confront her so I caught her with her guard down and called her out on the carpet

I am so appreciative of the advice and some points I will utilize immediately. Thank you.

You have received some great thoughts and advice so far.

Right now you are confused, hurt, and angry. This is common. We all went through it.

Take the time to determine what it is that you want to do. Emotionally distance yourself from her for now so you can make that determination in a clear-headed way as possible. Her response to you detaching will give you an indication of where her heart/mind is.

This is going to be a long journey, no matter what the outcome. Take your time and make good decisions for you and your kids. Be strong.

Welcome to SI, Blindsided19, the greatest club that no one ever wanted to join.

If you haven't done so yet, take some time and check out "The Healing Library." You'll find a link the yellow shaded area at the top-left of the page. There's an "Articles" section with outstanding essays from SI members.

You've already received a ton of great advice regarding how to proceed. I thought I'd take a moment and address the rest of the shit storm that infidelity creates.

I don't know what's real and what isn't at this point and its killing me.

...not knowing if I should take a stand that this is a deal breaker or if I should try to work it out with her. Definitely too soon to know because I'm going through such strong, fierce emotions filled with anger, confusion and disbelief.

For most people, the betrayal of infidelity is a profound shock to the system and a severe emotional and psychological trauma. It will take some time, a lot of time, just to recover and begin to heal.

I felt thoroughly unhinged at one point. My emotions were all over the place, changing from minute to minute sometimes. Rage, in particular, was a huge issue for me, enough that I sought out professional help (four sessions was good enough). I couldn't eat (lost 30lbs in two months), couldn't sleep, think straight, remember shit, focus, and, often enough, wound up a pathetic weeping heap on the bathroom floor.

This shit hits fucking hard, brother. So don't be too surprised if you feel the wheels coming off the tracks. (Always makes me think of Ozzie Osborne's "Crazy Train.")

Personally, I think infidelity is always a deal-breaker. That's why it's called infidelity. If you're willing to offer your WW the gift that is reconciliation, creating a "new deal," then I'd suggest adding a few terms and conditions. For instance, no more lies, of any kind. The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the fucking truth from here on out. Complete and utter candor when answering ANY question you might have, such as telling you who the OM is. Full transparency with all social media, email accounts, bank records, and so on and so forth. I think you get the idea.

Take care of yourself, man. Your first order of business here is to recover. That means focusing on you and putting yourself back together. Drink lots of water, eat healthy foods, hit the gym (I know it's a cliché, but the endorphins and hormones are tremendously helpful in recovery and healing). Rest and sleep when you can. If you can't sleep, try a mild OTC sleep aid. If that doesn't work, consult your doctor.

Keep posting and reading here on SI. Do a little research on PTSD. Most BSs will experience PTSD to some degree. If you feel the need, seek out professional help.

If...and it’s a big if....she really just met the guy at the bar and then screwed him, here are two possibilities.

1. He is a master pick up artist who does this often. Basically Ryan Goslings character from Crazy Stupid Love. (Not likely IMO)

2. She was on the prowl. At the very least she was mentally open to messing around when she left the house. In her hindbrain she was looking for something and someone.

I don’t buy the whole, « It just happened. I never planned for this. One thing led to another. I never saw it coming » story.

Seduction requires two people. A seducer, and a person willing to be seduced.

Hi Blindsided19,

Very sorry your WW has put you in this position. The advise everyone has given you is spot on.

I know how you feel. My WW admitted to a ONS when I confronted her with evidence of a PA with a coworker. I was completely blindsided too.

Your WW's behavior once discovered is typical. She will only admit to what can be proven. There is almost always more to the story. A polygraph, or real threat of a polygraph might yield more "truth".

On dday, my WW was blindsided and she lied so much in an attempt to save her skin. This went on for years. My WW wasn't looking to leave the M, she just wanted her fun on the side. She would never had told me unless I found out. And when I did, continued lies to try to minimize the damage.

It is the absolute worst pain I have felt and there isn't a day that goes by (nearly 4 years now) that I dont think about it.

I'm sorry you're going through this. It sucks...it just really sucks.

One thing I want to point out, this wasnt just ONE betrayal. It was many. She chose against you so many times in that night...

every time she thought of him

every time she texted him

every time she sai anything to him

every time she accepted a drink from him

every time she laughed with him

every time she touched him

every time she flirted with him

every time she looked at him

every time she kissed him

every time she had sex with him when with him

every mile she drove where she could have stopped and turned the car around

Add all those up.... you're probably in the hundreds.

All of those choices against you, and she never once "woke up" on her own at any point in the night, regretting what she was doing to you and just STOPPING?

But now that you caught her, she wants you. Where was this "want for you and her family" when she was with him?

The thing is, she wants the secure family life with you. But she wants sex from him. Now that she's busted you'll hear how she only wants you, but she already proved that wasn't the case, at least not sexually. You are what is referred to as her sexual Plan B. She wants a family life with you, a secure loving H who works, but she wants to fuck other guy.

She needs to know that these thoughts are in your head.

Also, be prepared for this one...if there's anything she doesnt do for you/with you sexually, she did it with him. EVERY SINGLE TIME, they always do those off limits things with their boyfriends.

Demand a poly. You must know what you're reconciling to be able to reconcile. But if this is a dealbreaker, don't wastenthe time or money

Just a note here to say that I am sorry for what is happening to you here. I wanted to add that the friend she was with that night knew everything that was happening, what was going to happen next and what your wife intended that night. She has to go. She cannot continue to be a friend to your wife as she is not a friend to your marriage. This is a tangible consequence of your wife cheating that to me would be non-negotiable.

Hi Blindsided19,

I saw a pic of my wife and her friend at dinner

My wife paid for her dinner

I don't know if meeting the AP was pre-arranged

She showed me her phone when I confronted her in the morning when she got home and there were texts between them telling her his address so it leads me to believe that this was her first time going to his place

My wife and her friend took an uber to the friends house, my wife got into her car and dove to the AP's house (that's how the evidence gave her away)

Many thanks for the additional information.

What you have written is better than the scenario of your wife having built up more of a relationship with the guy (which I suggested as a possibility in my earlier post). It does sound like she made the decision on the night.

What she needs to figure out is why she would do something reckless like this on a whim.

Another element she needs to address is how risky it is for a woman to drive several miles to a complete stranger's place late at night, without anyone knowing where she is going, or who she is going with. Women disappear that way.

A lot of psychopaths are very charming people. Your wife needs to wise up about her personal safety, amongst several other things. Her so-called friend was irresponsible to let your wife go off like that, even if she did not encourage it.

A question that probably seems like small potatoes at the moment is how many drinks she had had when she was driving that night. That is nothing to do with infidelity, but everything to making a series of reckless decisions.

The reason I bring up a series of reckless decisions is to see whether that kind of 'spur of the moment', 'devil may care' thinking is typical of your wife's usual behaviour, or if it is like she had some kind of uncharacteristic meltdown and stopped thinking about anything.

You said earlier that it seemed out of character, which begs the question of her mental and emotional state at the moment. Is she having a mid-life crisis? Is she having a crisis of identity? Has she lost confidence in her appearance (you hinted at that in an earlier post).

The reason I am asking all of these things is because if the two of you are going to save the marriage, your WW is going to have to have a complete understanding of what made her do this.

In terms of not knowing which path to take, it is vital for you to embrace the fact that you do not HAVE to take a particular option.

Many, many people here all swore that they would never stay with a partner who cheated. And many, many of those people did stay with their partner when it really happened to them, because theory and reality are two different things.

For some people, infidelity can be an immediate deal-breaker, and they go straight to divorce. That is not because they are doing the 'right' thing, or following some mandatory law of the universe. They do it because it feels right to them as an individual.

However, there are many situations where reconciliation can be the right option for a person if - and this is a big 'if' - the person who cheated demonstrates remorse, and works to fix whatever caused them to stray. They need to prove that if their partner extends the grace of a second chance to them, they are worthy of it.

At the moment, you are feeling a wide range of emotions. The period that immediately follows discovery of infidelity is often referred to as 'the rollercoaster', because you may find your moods going up and down several times a day. As tough as it is to be on that ride, it is actually natural and par for the course.

In time - and the period varies for each individual - the mood swings become less frequent.

There is a huge amount more that could be written about how things go in the weeks and months that follow the discovery of infidelity, but all of that can come with time.

For now, focus on taking care of yourself and your kids. You are not going anyplace, and neither are they, so you already have some stability to form a 'rock' on which to base your way forward.

Please take care of yourself; make sure you are eating and keeping yourself hydrated.

Some people confide in friends or relatives in such situations, as trusted people can be a great source of support. Other people tell no-one, as they are wary of the consequences of people knowing about an infidelity if reconciliation happens. It is basically a judgement call, and up to each individual to do what seems right to them.

Jumping straight into marriage counseling is not recommended without at least one of the people in the relationship having individual counseling first. Usually, that will be the partner who committed the infidelity, to identify why they did it.

Think of it this way: marriage counseling is about fixing a marriage, individual counseling is about fixing a person. The marriage cannot be fixed unless both people involved in it have been fixed.

That is not to say that you, or the marriage, need fixing. This may all be about some kind of personal crisis that your wife is going through, and if that is the case, the majority of the fixing work will need to be done on her before she re-enters the marriage if you decide to reconcile.

Having said all of that, both of you must embrace the fact that cheating is not a legitimate response to a perceived problem, any more than going into work and shooting your boss is a legitimate response to being fired. Neither option fixes anything, and both just make a bad situation worse.

The reason I say that is because sometimes a person who cheats may try to portray themselves as the victim of circumstance. "I felt neglected, so I had to cheat". "I felt depressed, so I had to cheat". And so on. That is bullshit, as is, "I got fired, so I had to shoot my boss".

No-one has to choose a selfish and destructive option. That they do indicates something in their thinking or boundaries needs fixing. Do not lose sight of that.

It is equally important for your wife to take ownership of the decisions she made that night. You did not make her cheat. The guy in the bar did not make her cheat. Her friend did not make her cheat. The booze did not make her cheat.

She chose to cheat.

I do not say that to damn her to Hell as as some kind of irredeemable evil-doer, but because she must own her decisions if she is going to become a safe life partner for you again. And she may well have the potential to become that, particularly if this is some kind of breakdown/crisis, rather than a product of who she is.

You mentioned her having engaged in 'inappropriate' messages with a man a year ago, which she only confessed to recently. That makes me wonder if what happened when she went out with her friend had been brewing for longer than either of you realised.

At the moment your overwhelming feelings may be anger, puzzlement, and pain. As you move forward, and you re-establish communication with your wife, it will be important to discuss what was going on in her emotions over the past couple of years to lead her to the point where she made such a negative decision

That requires an element of sympathy/empathy, and that can be hard to muster when you feel like tearing some a 'new one' for what they did. However, once some time has passed, you will probably reach a point where you can begin to communicate without anger hijacking the proceedings.

Not every person who cheats is an unforgivable, amoral, dirty, low, contemptible piece of trash who deserves to be put in the garbage can. We may feel that way when the pain or anger grips us, but in our calmer moments, we also remember their good points.

Some people cheat not because they are the Devil incarnate, but because they are bad communicators, have poor boundaries, poor coping skills, low self-image/self-worth, and so on. None of that is an excuse or justification, but one or more reasons/causes.

You have much better knowledge of who your wife is, and how typical of her this behaviour is, so you are in the best place to assess whether she has become someone else, and may no longer be a safe life partner for you, or if this was the result of some kind of problem within her that can be fixed to the point where she will be 'safe' to be brought back into the marriage.

This is not just 'all on you'; you can ask as many questions as you want, and bounce ideas off us. The best way to use this forum is to take the stuff that strikes a cord with you, and ignore the stuff that does not.

What this is all about is building a way forward that is right for you, not right for me, or anyone else. Hopefully, that is what we will be able to achieve, working in conjunction with the other resources you choose to use.

Our thoughts are with you, and you are not alone, my friend.

[This message edited by M1965 at 3:59 PM, July 7th (Sunday)]

She and her GF urbered home and then she drove to the OM's house. This was not a spur of the moment decision... she had plenty of time to think about consequences. She either knew him in advance or went out looking for sex - either option suggests this is not the first time.

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 4:11 PM, July 7th (Sunday)]

M1965, thank you such a detailed, inspirational message. I really needed that.

Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to comment. I am reading ever one of the messages and taking it all in. I'm grateful for the support.

Those that have nothing to hide. Hide nothing.

It's very possible you've stumbled onto the "tip of the iceberg". Let's hope not but you just don't know.

Her gf is an enemy of your marriage.

Hi Blindsided19,

You are welcome.

When it comes to infidelity, and every other area of life, there is a fundamental truth:

Simple answers suit simple situations. Nothing about infidelity is simple.

A big part of the reconciliation process is you reconciling your decisions with yourself, and your wife reconciling what she did with herself.

More than that, your wife will need to prove to both of you that she will not go down this road again.

That is not as simple as saying, "I will not cheat again". To be meaningful, it should be more like, "I will be open and honest about how I feel about myself, and us, and if I feel messed up, I will discuss it with you".

And that is something that you can work out between you.

This does not have to be the end between you. It can serve as an alarm call. It can be an alarm that your wife has a bundle of issues that she does not know how to deal with. Doing what she did indicates an element of desperation, which in turn indicates someone who has lost control of their emotions.

To repeat: none of this excuses or justifies anything. However, what cheating indicates about the person who cheated can be hugely variable. Which is why a single response is not fit for purpose.

A valid question to ask your wife would be, "Why should I take you back after this?" See what she says.

You will get through this, Blindsided19. There are more than sixty thousand members of this forum, which goes to show how often this problem hits people. It also shows that people survive it.

[This message edited by M1965 at 2:03 AM, July 8th (Monday)]

What kind of friends enable cheating? Surely they knew she was married?

What the hell!?

edit to add:

If you are to recover the marriage, these friends are gone, history, toast, end of story, no argument.

She can't claim that they didn't know anything. She can't claim their innocence.

They are NOT friends of the marriage. So if she wants to keep those friends, she's speaking to end the marriage.

She wants to call you controlling? Fine. Be done with this cheater. There was plans, even if made at the last minute. She knew what she was doing, and so did they.

[This message edited by k8la at 6:22 PM, July 7th (Sunday)]

It sounds like you have the address of the AP in a text message on your wife’s phone.

You may want to do a look up on that address and see what comes back.

If he owns the house with his wife?

How far did she drive that tolls were required?

Was she driving drunk?

Something is not adding up in her story.

[This message edited by Hopeful30 at 7:40 PM, July 7th (Sunday)]

I think your first suspicion about this not being her first time is correct Blindsided19. She spread her legs for the other man too easily for this not to have happened before. I'd be of the mindset that she's a serial cheater. She also did what cheaters do by giving you a little extra info on some minor messages to another man. That's a tactic to make you think that she's revealed everything down to this 'minor' tiny little incident. Know that she probably used him only because it was nothing or he can't be contacted and only to throw you off the trail of other men that she's been with. The only way you're going to get the real story is via a polygraph. She's in damage control mode right now so she's lying her a$$ off and crying and pulling every heart string she can to make you believe this was the only time. You should consider that every time her and the 'friend' went out, their sole purpose was to have sex with other guys. Count the number of times they've gone out together and you have close to the number of men she's screwed during your marriage. If there are other 'friends' she's gone out solely with, then you might need to add those counts too. I'm sorry to hear about your situation. Stay angry and don't allow her to manipulate you into a love stupor. You're just now getting a glimpse of who she really is. Believe what you're seeing. She's not who and what you thought she was. I hope the best for you.

Like Ponus18 said

"Demand to know who the AP is and if he is married tell his wife asap and without telling your WW you plan to do so."

Truth and Honesty is the only way forward.

Hi Blindsided,

How are you doing? I hope you are taking care of yourself. It can be easy to forget about yourself when you are preoccupied with something that dominates your thoughts.

Great replies. You’ve got a lot of reading ahead of you so I’ll make this brief.

Remorse has a honeymoon phase filled with hysterical bonding, sex bombing, tears, dramatic declarations of love, etc. True remorse lasts forever. True reconciliation is dependent upon a truly remorseful WS. If she’s truly remorseful, she will not hesitate to make whatever sacrifices are necessary to make you feel safe, to build trust, to build intimacy through absolute soul baring honesty. She must have conviction and steadfast patience, and be proactive. She will accept full responsibility and not blame shift. She will seek out self help and not rug sweep. And, she will fully understand the commitment she is about to make-a life long commitment, and be totally ok with that, be ok with your triggers, depression, and painfully slow to recovering trust.

If you don’t feel she is up to the task, if you’re not really feeling the remorse.. Just bail. Just fucking bail. Life is too short to torture yourself with halfass reconciliation, half measures and haunting doubt.