SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Thank you for this. He is saying he was being a self centered asshole, prick, or bastard. This is pretty recent though.

It's a move in the right direction. When I see people blaming FOO (family of origin, basically, mom/dad issues), sex addiction, their spouse (very common), or really anything other than them being an a**hole, I get my hairs up pretty quick. All those other things, including SA, are often ways of deflecting away from the real issue, which, of course, is the cheaters behavior.

Loving sex does not make a person a cheater and I am suspicious of the SA diagnosis, because you don't see these men just screwing anyone and everyone most of the time. They don't "lose control" and whip their dicks out in WalMart. They calculatedly plan their cheating just like anyone else. Character disordered? Sure. Addict? Maybe. I bet very few would truly qualify.

I agree completely. You're supposed to love sex, it's built into our DNA to love it; if it wasn't, we would have died out as a species a long time ago. And, like you, I truly believe that this is a real corner case issue; sure, I'm positive there are some people on here dealing with a SA (either as a BS or WS). But I have a feeling that number is dramatically smaller than the number of people who've either claimed it or are dealing with someone claiming SA. And the appeal is easy to see, an addiction is a disease, it's "not your fault" it's just the way you were wired. So it's a very convenient, unknowable and easy to use excuse for cheating. Just like everyone who gets into a serious drunk driving accident is an alcoholic suddenly; no, one does not equal the other. People who rarely or almost never drink go out, have too many, get into the car and kill people. That doesn't mean they are alcoholics, it means they have impaired decision making and don't really care about the effects their actions have on other people. This is a bit of a weak analogy because many people involved in DUIs are alcoholics, but, the point stands, not all are. And in affairs, I think character defects are far, far more common than a real sexual addiction problem.

And the appeal is easy to see, an addiction is a disease, it's "not your fault" it's just the way you were wired.

That doesn't even cut it with me. If you have a disease that causes you to grievously harm the people you love, then your primary goal in life should be to get and keep that disease under control so that you don't behave like a flaming sociopathic asshole. Yeah, the addict I married wasn't getting any mileage out of that excuse for any of his behaviors.

Yes, it is the way they were wired. Wired to be able to lie, manipulate, exploit and abuse. Yes, it is the way they were wired. Wired to take pleasure in using pathetic, trafficked, creatures who can't stand doing what they were doing; yes, it is the way they were wired. Wired to take pleasure in lying on a cot that was used by god knows how many men before them and then being able to come home and eat their wives cooked dinner and act as though everything was normal.

Yes, it is the way they were wired. Wired to be able to use family funds to the tune of over $300,000, wired to then become defensive, angry, self-pitying.

Yes, it is the way they were wired. Wired to be able to sleep at night even while betraying day and and day out.

Serious mis-wiring there in my opinion. And maybe it doesn't matter what we call it-addiction, compulsion, predilection, habit, preference.

Disease??? Well certainly not the choice, not the life, not the actions, behaviors, preferences of a healthy person-but disease? Something that one just "got" like lung cancer or tuberculosis? Chicken pox? Don't think so.

I also say, I find the entire concept of SA to be very difficult to swallow. I love sex, like LOVE sex. I sought it out with extreme prejudice for years, saying whatever it took to get it, and doing whatever would give me the best chances to get it. I've never cheated on my W, even when our marriage was bordering on sexless. High drive is not SA. And cheaters are not all SA's. In fact, I'd argue that very, very few are. It's a convenient way to shift blame from their bad character to "I'm sick". You are sick, but being a "sh*tty person" isn't exactly a diagnosis that many will give out. Every time I see someone say "SA" or "FOO issue" I get a little triggered because both of them remove the responsibility from the cheat. No, your bad family life didn't cause it, and no, your "disease" didn't cause it either. Your crappy character and lack of reasoned, rational decision making caused this mess, nothing less, nothing more.

RIO, You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

I wonder how your marriage has been affected by sex addiction? Have you been diagnosed? Your wife?

Is your very best friend in the entire world a sex addict and they confide their struggles with you every day?

Do you hang out at 12 step meetings?

My husband is a recovery sex addict. He's actually never stepped out of our marriage. And while he was off getting high, the last thing, we were doing, actually, was having sex. When his addiction was escalating, we were having sex once every 2 months or so. And my husband, while sober, has a very high drive.

It would be nice before you make all your arguments about what SA is or isn't, that you take some time to educate yourself. Sex addiction isn't really about sex. It's about avoiding any sort of emotional intimacy at all costs.

I understand you don't believe in more process addictions. And I'll give you that sex addiction didn't make it into the DSM V, which I personally found disappointing.

I wonder if you would say that all addicts have crappy characters? Or if it's just sex addicts, because you don't believe it? How many recovering addicts do you run into? Do you tell them all that you won't talk to them...because they have crappy characters? And what about all the cheaters you hang out with? I'm curious, do you not find your male friends that you post about here routine to have a crappy character?

You have to potential to do more harm than good.

I understand free messageaboard and your own opinion and all that.

But, please, if you are going to spout off about SA, please read all the books. Chat with a CSAT. Watch the podcasts. Educate yourself before you make assertions about things.

Because you could be doing more harm than good.

Marji - thank you for your compassion and empathy for my situation, and your kind words about being strong. Sometimes I feel so delicate - like I could crumble at any moment. My words sometimes hide the vulnerability I feel inside. Wow - $300k??? Yes, I would say THAT is an addiction. I'm not certain if my WH has an addiction, but I am certain that he hasn't shown accountability, honesty, or remorse that's needed in this situation. Anyway, thank you again.

I'm a therapist myself and unable to diagnose my husband with an addiction (No DSM5 diagnosis yet for sexual addiction - maybe the next edition!), because I haven't been able to have a productive conversation with him about his hypersexual behaviors. He stonewalls and tells me that we've talked about this "ad nauseam", which is hurtful and offensive to me. How dare he say this after causing me so much stress over the years? Fuck him!

Here are the things I can't wrap my head around, or overcome, to enable me to save this marriage. Let me first give you a little backstory. We have been married 20 years and there has never (except the last year) been a time when he didn't use porn behind my back, go out with his friends into the wee hours of the morning, search for young, random women on Facebook and social media, and look at, or for, sex workers. But it was all me - I was being the crazy, irrational person. I was making too big a deal of out of things. I was the person in his life making our marriage miserable. So now, since my mother died the end of March, he's been Mr.Amicable - and it almost pisses me off. He acts like as long as he doesn't engage in inappropriate behaviors, all is well and forgotten.Like the last 19 years of horseshit never happened. What the hell? He says he wants to stay married and is willing to go to counseling, but here are my hurdles:

1. Anyone who says that they love you all these years, but then acts like someone who doesn't love you, probably isn't completely sincere when they say they want to have a good marriage. He wants to have a marriage on his terms.

2. I don't trust the guy as far as I can throw him - and that has never waivered. Every time he goes out with his friends or on a business trip, my stomach does flip flops.

3. He's never made me or our marriage a priority - NEVER. It's always been someone, or something, else. Friends, poker night, work, our daughter's softball, sports on TV.

4. He is a subtle emotional abuser - he gaslights and manipulates. Example: I have an autoimmune disorder and because of that, my memory is not the greatest sometimes.He has used that against me in arguments, telling me that "You can't remember what you had for lunch yesterday!" when he's disputing something he's done or said in the past - basically telling me that my memories are "incorrect". Makes me so angry!

5. I'm no longer physically attracted to him - we've had sex maybe 3 times in the last year and 2 out of those 3 he couldn't even have or keep an erection. WTF?? He is a smoker and he stinks - turn off! And just the fact that I know he's engaged in these creepy fucking behaviors turns me off.

6. I think he has some serious character flaws that will never change - he is who he is. How are we supposed to maintain a marriage around that?

7. I'm ready to start living my life for me - I've given him 20 years of my life and 2 wonderful children. I don't want to stay married because financially we're better together than apart, or because it may affect our youngest daughter playing high level softball, or because his fragile ego will be hurt if I choose to dissolve the marriage.

8. We show disdain for each other sometimes, and a true lack of respect. I believe that these 2 issues are very hard to overcome.

Gently, Aquarious72, Being a therapist what would you say to a client who came to you and said what you wrote?

I don't mean that as a 2 X 4 or criticism. (My W was a therapist, too, BTW....)

As a client of several therapists along my way (including one very famous and effective one), I can't help mentioning that you've chosen to accept the treatment you received from your H. (I do, of course, understand that there's more to your story than you've told here ... but even then, what you've shared compared to what you haven't shared is significant.)

I'm glad you've stopped accepting abuse. As you know, it will take a while before your H accepts that, too, if he ever does.

I imagine you're in great pain, and I know you don't deserve it. I'm sorry about that. But deciding you deserve to be treated well is an important step in recovering from being betrayed, so you have reason to believe your life is on the way to becoming better.

****

Also, what would you say to a client who is unhappy with her choice of partner but who wants to stay 'for the kids'?

[This message edited by sisoon at 11:29 AM, September 15th (Sunday)]

Sisoon: Yes, you're right - I have made conscious decisions for years to stay in the same situations. There were probably opportunities to leave, but I always stayed for the kids. There is little dischord between us now, but we get along like roommates instead of spouses. We sleep in separate bedrooms and have for years. As a therapist, I would let the client work through the process of whether they wanted to stay or leave, but also working on their self-esteem and establishing healthy boundaries. I would have gently challenged the client if she were in my shoes, telling her to shit or get off the pot! haha.