SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

One thing that people also miss is this...the AP is likely using you for something as well. Even if they are single claiming a NSA - you have to ask yourself if they have ulterior motives. They might seem willing and foot loose and fancy free, but upon a second look what are they really doing there?

True. Even more likely if this is someone who already knows you.

After reading so many threads about Revenge Affairs I absolutely reject the notion that a RA offers anything of value to the BS.

When my wife cheated I did not immediately jump to the notion that I needed to screw someone else in order to regain my sense of self-worth.

Why should I lower myself to act like she did? Infidelity is infidelity no matter who engages in the practice. Why should I seek to get in someone else's pants? How does screwing a third party ease the pain, even up the infidelity wars or make any of us a better person? It doesn't.

In my opinion, RA's are just another form of abuse.

I can understand the heart wound that draws us that way for healing - but why try to use another person and draw them into my misery for my own healing? In the end, it takes two people to have any affair, and I don’t think it’s fair to pull another person into my suffering.

To me a revenge affair would have only passed my pain onto someone else. You don't use someone to even a playing field. You don't use someone period. I couldn't drop down to that level that my ex did. I would have been just as guilty. Seeking an external solution for my internal problem. This, well she did it first!! So what? She can live with that. I still hold my standards and priorities high.

I thought of a revenge affair. I think a lot do. But what would that accomplish. Doing so would bring me to the level of what I detest.

What would I have to do to "equalize"? Pay a hooker? So my WW gives it away I and I have to pay. That doesn't sound too "equalizing".

My WW had an LTA. Would I have to have an LTA? Would I have to find a woman (married, of course) who wanted nothing from me other than to satisfy my sexual needs? Someone who would come running every time I called for sex. Who'd have sex in places like a machine shed while on lunch break, arrange to pick me up and take me someplace for sex, sex in her parents basement, sex on a viewing platform in broad daylight or on the side of a road in the dark, or make a bed on the floor in her husband's office while I sit and watch, who'd do whatever I wanted in the sex department whenever I asked and even anticipate before I asked? Someone who'd arrange for me to accompany her on weeklong road trips but who would never spend any more time together than it took to have sex even if there would be no problem with spending more time together. Someone who never expect any wining, dining, gifts or sweet words and rejected them?

What would that accomplish? How many people could I hurt?

It will never be "even". It can't be even. It's not worth it, IMO. Who and what do you want to be?

[This message edited by steadychevy at 8:32 AM, December 26th (Thursday)]

This is just my own personal opinion here, but I think the entire idea of a "revenge affair" is something of a misnomer. It's not revenge. It's just an affair and there is no justification for infidelity.

I also believe that infidelity is, at it's core, base and self-destructive. As a BS we are all in a world of pain and anguish, lost and confused. So, how the hell does it help anyone in a such a state to debase themselves and blow-up their lives?

I'll also quote a famous line from Confucius, who once remarked: "Before embarking upon a revenge, dig two graves."

In all honesty, I think the ultimate revenge for infidelity is to walk-away from the cheater, divorce, ghost them, whatever.

[This message edited by Unhinged at 9:34 AM, December 26th (Thursday)]

A revenge affair is simply another way of saying, "my character is just a dismal as my cheating spouse's character."

It's not revenge. It's an excuse for bad behavior.

In all honesty, I think the ultimate revenge for infidelity is to walk-away from the cheater, divorce, ghost them, whatever.

This is the damn truth! I think it's likely the best option overall.

I don't see BS can hold someone in such low regard and still R with them. If your cheater lacks morals, character, and common sense, why do you want to stay married to them? Doesn't the bible say bad company ruins good morals? My grandmother said this to me all the time. Or "Whoever walks with the wise becomes wise, but the companion of fools will suffer harm."

FWIW, I had an RA and it did help my M in some ways. The AP was single, she wasn't hurt when the A ended. It helped me in some ways too. If nothing else, the RA changed my perspective on some aspects of my WW's A. It 100% changed the conversations we were having and forced her to view her choices differently. I have no guilt or remorse about it either. So 36yearsgone, you now know of at least one poor SOB that was helped by an RA.

I also want to add that I'm not condoning RAs at all. After dealing with this for 16 years, I can confidently say I wish I would have divorced years ago - immediately after d day. I invested too much time and energy into making my WW "get it". So now I'm 50yo and my marriage, after thousands of hours (and dollars) spent dealing with the fallout, is a C+ at best. My WW has changed, she's really a model wife now. She's matured, knows her whys, and I don't think she'll ever cheat again. I would definitely say she's a good person now. I don't really have any lingering issues other than I feel I'm in a very diminished M. I have the feeling I've settled for something less than. I don't have the same feelings for her I once did. We get along well and I do enjoy her company. Infidelity changed the course of our lives and that sucks.

So 36yearsgone, you now know of at least one poor SOB that was helped by an RA.

Buck:

I'm glad, at least in your opinion, that it worked out for you.

In my response that follows, please keep in mnd it is based on my paradigm, my thought processes and my personal view of morality, ethics, and simply the rightness or wrongness of an action. In other words, what I am about to say is my opinion alone.

Without further adieu, here I go:

It seems to me that a revenge affair focuses on harming or getting even with one's own spouse for his or her aberrant behavior. It is a selfish response based on the desire to lash out at the cheater by becoming one too.

The you hurt me, so I'll hurt you, response, doesn't equate to making a marriage healthy. It can sicken it more. My wife's behavior was atrocious and I'm certain I could find many people who would tell me that I could respond with a guiltless affair. But I can't. I hold my vows in high regard. If there is ever to be a path toward reconciliation, a revenge affair muddies those waters.

My wife's affair was not caused by me not having an affair of my own. Therefore, a revenge affair is not a cure. Sure, I might feel like I deserve to cheat, to make her feel as awful and disrespected as I felt; but a RA is powerless to heal.

In your case, you had a RA with an unmarried person. You didn't provide many additional details to the affair, but my thoughts are simple: RA's still require using someone else to mask, attempt to heal or hurt your spouse. How is that healthy?

Maybe your AP wasn't hurt, but you still used her as part of your revenge plan. How is that healthy?

My WW's affair was an abuse of me and our marriage. In my mind, there is not a whole lot of difference between having a RA and punching my wife in the face. Both are forms of assault.

My struggle with my wife's affair includes not allowing it to destroy the few good parts of my character that I still have. I want to be able to look at myself in a mirror and like the person staring back at me. A Revenge Affair would not allow me to do that.

Logically I don't think you'll find any argument in favor... but it's certainly understandable in the aftermath of dday why it might happen. Because logic and reason go out the window when your world is rocked by infidelity.

Right after dday it was damn tempting to want to seek out the validation of someone else. For those that fell prey to the temptation I get it.

36yearsgone, you now know of at least one poor SOB that was helped by an RA.

I also want to add that I'm not condoning RAs at all. After dealing with this for 16 years, I can confidently say I wish I would have divorced years ago

So then the RA tricked you into believing things were better when they weren't (same as any A does for any cheater), and you really wish you had just divorced instead.

Exactly.

Then 36yearsgone continues to be right: RAs never help. People trick themselves into thinking they are helpful, but a little work, growth, or time will prove how faulty that thinking was. Like all As.

Who the hell thinks an RA fixes your marriage? I do not think that at all. Despite all of the work we've done, I don't think my M is better post A, my WW's A or mine. Cheating completely destroyed our marriage. I mean dead and gone. I lost desire, love, and respect for her. I've struggled to rebuild those things. The simple truth is her choice to cheat changed the course of our lives and marriage. The M now is fragile. I wonder if we're trauma bonded. I know I'll never be all in this marriage ever again. We both have lost things in this mess.

My past is in my post history. Read for yourselves, I'm not claiming to be a saint or to know any answers. I'm merely stating my experience or my opinion based upon my experience. Nothing else. Our first MC facilitated blameshifting. My WW had issues with empathy. The RA changed her tune on blameshifting and gave her some insight into how I felt (empathy). I knew for certain I could replace her if I wanted too. I knew I had options and I explored them before committing to R. I told my WW I was going to date other women. Is this good for our M? No. Was it good for me? Yes.

I don't feel like a doormat. I don't feel like plan b. I don't have any sexual insecurities. I don't feel like I will be alone forever if I leave. I don't feel like there's a power imbalance or that justice wasn't served. I know she had direct and tangible consequences. The biggest issue is I could not have stayed and not had some sort of RA. In my eyes, that smacks of weakness. I would rather be thought of as an immoral asshole versus a weak man standing beside a cheating woman.

It seems to me that a revenge affair focuses on harming or getting even with one's own spouse for his or her aberrant behavior. It is a selfish response based on the desire to lash out at the cheater by becoming one too.

I disagree with this as a blanket statement. I reckon it's true in some cases, but in many cases a BS having sex with somebody other than his or her WS is simply trying to find a few moments of feeling good while sinking in a cesspool of feeling bad. As Buck said:

I told my WW I was going to date other women. Is this good for our M? No. Was it good for me? Yes.

I am one of the contrarian SI posters who believes that in some cases a BS can facilitate his or her own healing faster and better by having sex with somebody other than the WS.

I'll take it even a step further. I don't believe that a BS who does this is "cheating" in the same way the WS cheated. As discussed many times here on SI, the old marriage dies after infidelity. The BS, having sex with some third person in the aftermath may be doing something that is messed up, may be causing the WS to feel pain, may even permanently bollix any possibility of R, but I don't think you can call it "cheating".

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 8:08 PM, December 26th (Thursday)]

I guess I am contrarian to what you posted. You are providing excuses similar to those the WS uses to justify their affair.

Oh, if o it I have sex with a 3rd party, I can recover from the lack of attention or lack of kibbles my spouse is giving. You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig

[This message edited by 36yearsgone at 9:30 AM, December 27th (Friday)]

Bftg- the only problem is when you prop yourself up in these types of situations it’s only temporary. And often that big high comes with a bigger low. It’s better to focus on true self respect and true self love. In my opinion that an only be realized by hewing in dignity and trying to live your best life. Self respect is a commodity, when you lose it, it’s hard to get back.

Buck - I would assume this is partially why you feel your marriage is diminished. We value what we treat with value. I believe all waywards have to realize that in order to gain some of that back. I know that seems backwards because her cheating had a similar impact. But it’s the same with love - we experience it best by giving it. The butterflies are attained by our own efforts and the preciousness in which we view the other person. I realize that you have it from both directions but I am going to bet whether you realize it or not some

Of what you lost in the years of affairs and issues after was some of your relationship with yourself. In order to feel some

Some of the restoration you might want to look into what it means to heal from your own behavior. I sense a great deal of regret when you talk about your part of things. You were having an exit affair and didn’t exit - why not? You seemed to indicate that you would have left for your ap in some

Of your prior posts.

the only problem is when you prop yourself up in these types of situations it’s only temporary. And often that big high comes with a bigger low. It’s better to focus on true self respect and true self love.

I dont disagree with any of that, but sometimes the path toward health necessitates choosing the lesser of the several evils available. The medical industry knows this. Chemotherapy being perhaps exhibit a, but there are countless of ther examples.

Sometimes the heart and soul of a BS is so crushed under the sheer magnitude of the WS's betrayal that the physical and sexual embrace of somebody who at least does not treat nor view you with contempt is what the BS needs to stabilize emotionally.

I dont disagree with any of that, but sometimes the path toward health necessitates choosing the lesser of the several evils available.

Again, feels like I'm reading in Wayward section. Cognitive dissonance at its finest.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 7:51 AM, December 27th (Friday)]

sometimes the path toward health necessitates choosing the lesser of the several evils available.

The lesser evil is still evil.

Cat

They can "agree" to being used, but that doesn't make them any more manipulated and used in a situation that was 100% not of their own making.

Frankly, just like affairs, I really doubt someone is going to use this sort of script: You see, my spouse cheated on me and I want to make them pay by sleeping with someone else. You seem game. I don't know what is going to become of this, but I want to do it because of what someone else did to hurt me. So really, you could be anyone as long as you're willing to participate in hurting my spouse with me.

Cat

Well...

When it became known that my now ex wife had cheated on me, I was actually propositioned by multiple women with pretty much that exact script.

Sometimes the heart and soul of a BS is so crushed under the sheer magnitude of the WS's betrayal that the physical and sexual embrace of somebody who at least does not treat nor view you with contempt is what the BS needs to stabilize emotionally.

Set aside the RA for a moment. A WS contemplating an affair can use the exact same logic you postulated. If the logic is acceptable for a Revenge Affair it is also acceptable for the original affair.

But, in both cases it is not acceptable. Following D-day the BS goes through a myriad of emotions. Such an emotional state can lead one to a variety of bad decisions. A Revenge Affair is just another bad decision.