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I think that when we create boundaries, it can feel like control to the other person.

I remember i told my ex if he didn't do ex by a certain date, we were done.

He was curious. He felt like I was controlling him. I felt like he had been lying and lying and promising and promisinng. And i needed him to do this or be out of the relationship.

When we create boundaries we are not controlling them, but we are forcing tjem to either control their own behavior or accept consequences.

I mean, if someone wants to be married and date other people, and their spouse feels differently, a boundary will feel like control. Because now they can't have both

What infidelity taught me more than anything is that having very firm boundaries is imperative. My boundaries are way more concrete now than they ever have been. Only you know what is acceptable to you. And if anyone has a problem with that then that’s more their problem than yours. That’s how you have to view it.

This is spot-on!

Isn't it funny though that generally the only people who see healthy boundaries as "controlling" are people who have shitty/no boundaries of their own?

My exdouche called me 'controlling', 'unflexible', and 'close-minded' when I told him that I was not going to be okay with him (*checks notes on the stupid shit he said) "dating and having meaningful romantic relationships with other women". Yes he actually said that dumbass shit with a straight face. I still shake my head at the drivel that came out of his lyin ass mouth, even 2 years later

This is very, very easy.

Boundaries relate to YOU. Control relates to someone else.

If you make rules for someone else, they aren't boundaries. They are being used to control someone else's behaviour.

A boundary for me is, I cannot date alcoholics. I know that is bad for my mental health. However, it does not mean that I get to tell my partners that they can't drink, or can't drink heavily. It's their body, and they have the autonomy to do what they like. I can only control my own behaviour and my own choices. So if I find the person I am dating is or becomes an alcoholic? The only person I can or even should attempt to change is myself. So I follow my boundary and stop dating them.

Attempting to control others' behaviour is toxic in and of itself. We are all adults. Adults should not be making rules for other adults.

Isn't it funny though that generally the only people who see healthy boundaries as "controlling" are people who have shitty/no boundaries of their own?

Yes this has been true in my case with both friends and my STBX.

If you make rules for someone else, they aren't boundaries. They are being used to control someone else's behaviour.

See this is where I get confused because the boundaries I set were that I would not work on the M if STBX did not go to therapy. Same with devices, if he didn't agree to transparency it was over. Isn't that in a sense controlling? Obviously my STBX's blatant disrespect for my boundaries led to me leaving. Just confused that a lot of the rules we advise for BS's seem controlling to an unremorseful spouse.

People see boundaries as controlling if they feel that you belong to them in some way or that they are entitled to treat you in any way that they wish. No one who sees and respects you as a separate human being can call your boundaries controlling.

They feel controlled, as in "if I want to be with this person, I cannot do ___ therefore this person is trying to control me doing what I want by giving me an ultimatum" when what you're saying is "I don't want to deal with ____ in my life, so anyone who does ____ is someone I will need to separate myself from".

It seems like a fine line mostly because of the perceptions of those who aren't emotionally healthy. It's really pretty simple.

See this is where I get confused because the boundaries I set were that I would not work on the M if STBX did not go to therapy. Same with devices, if he didn't agree to transparency it was over. Isn't that in a sense controlling? Obviously my STBX's blatant disrespect for my boundaries led to me leaving. Just confused that a lot of the rules we advise for BS's seem controlling to an unremorseful spouse.

Frankly, I have seen lots of advice given here that is controlling and unhealthy. Certainly not the majority, but quite a bit.

However, you aren't dealing with a healthy relationship after an affair. You are dealing with one that is damaged or unhealthy in some way. At that point, everything is on the table. You get to renegotiate all of your wants and needs and expectations for building a new relationship. The old relationship is over.

So you can certainly frame some things as, the conditions under which you are willing to attempt to build a new relationship. However, you have to treat them as boundaries and not as control attempts. That means if your partner does not fulfill those requirements, you don't attempt to coerce or give an ultimatum- you remove yourself from the situation.

[This message edited by PSTI at 4:52 PM, October 22nd (Thursday)]

CrazyBlindedsided:

The situation is different after infidelity or any other type (ie financial) where there has been a major breach of trust. If the WS sees requests to make us feel safe as "controlling" when we are open to R and not to see it as their chance to regain some of the trust, then it's a massive problem.

I was just more talking about normal day controlling/boundaries, which were regularly trampled on in WH's family, (with the added blame shifting towards me). They are npds, definitely my ex m.i.l and my ex husband. They think that they are "better " than us, you see them interacting with other, being all nice etc. After a while you believe that you really are too sensitive, that they really should be allowed to be doing whatever they want because they are just doing their best, it didn't mean anything, they are generous, they want the best for you too, etc. Only once the can of worm is open you can see all the shit behind. The digging for info through the kids/family members so they can point the finger etc, cause even more damage etc.

All these posts help me a lot to get my head sorted out, I read them many times.

Thank you everybody. :)

See this is where I get confused because the boundaries I set were that I would not work on the M if STBX did not go to therapy. Same with devices, if he didn't agree to transparency it was over. Isn't that in a sense controlling?

These things might seem like rules or controls, but they can be made into boundary statements which really would reflect on your personal tolerance. ie. "I may choose to extend grace after betrayal, but will NOT do so if my partner doesn't engage in meaningful remediation of his character flaws", or "I may choose to extend grace after betrayal, but will NOT do so if my partner chooses to be secretive or fails to regain my trust".

It's still about you at that point. You've simply factored in the existing parameters and tested your tolerance against them.

crazyblindsided,

You're onto something there that I think is very important to consider. These kinds of questions by their very nature incite semantical arguments, but I think the whole point can get lost in the mix. What do we mean by "control"? What if your "boundary" requires action from the other person rather than inaction? It's an engaging discussion, for sure, but I want to find the least confusing, most empowering outcome for the person who is struggling with this.

By definition, anything you do to affect another person's behavior is a form of control. Everything we do, from moving our legs around the room to picking what to eat for dinner to providing support in a forum such as this, is a form of control. We control our bodies to change our position in the world. We control our diets to make our taste buds or bodies feel good. We control the anecdotal information read by other BS's to help them avoid the same mistakes we made in our own relationships. "Control" has a broad definition and it's not inherently good or bad. This is a simple fact of life.

Why is this important? Because we've all agreed as a society that controlling other people to prevent them from harming you is a GOOD(!) thing. We control murderers by imprisoning them. We control polluters by fining them. And, the point of this, we control our relationship partners by communicating to them our expectations and codes of conduct, i.e. boundaries. Sometimes we even let them know what would happen if they cross these boundaries (and where they can stick it!). If someone calls your boundaries "controlling" behavior, your immediate response should be, "yeah, so?". When you start second-guessing not your boundaries themselves, but whether or not you should even HAVE boundaries, you're doing yourself a great disservice.

Can you be too controlling? Yes, of course. We can't start locking people up who don't agree with our opinions (although it seems like 90% of people would if given the chance). In a relationship context, sometimes "too controlling" to one person means "she makes me show her all my texts" and to another means "he follows me in his car every time I leave the house". It's a very squishy concept. The thing is, that's something that two adults need to hash out for themselves. What can you put up with, what won't you put up with, what will they get out of it, what will you get out of it? Unfortunately, there's no easy answer, and your emotions about this can and will change over time.

So yes, boundaries are a form of control, but if you're being upfront about them and not pulling some underhanded, power move type shenanigans, then it shouldn't bother you.

I remember i told my ex if he didn't do ex by a certain date, we were done.

I would categorize the above statement as an ultimatum, so I can see why it would be perceived as controlling.

As posted earlier, your boundaries are about you, and what is acceptable to you. For example, “Xyz behaviour is unacceptable to me, and I will not continue in this relationship if xyz continues.” The other person can do something, or they can do nothing. Their choice. But what you are communicating is that if xyz continues then you will exit the relationship, which is a perfectly acceptable position to take.

See this is where I get confused because the boundaries I set were that I would not work on the M if STBX did not go to therapy. Same with devices, if he didn't agree to transparency it was over. Isn't that in a sense controlling?

I understand being confused.

Can we not set requirements for our relationships?

My W2b effectively had a boundary about dating - she wasn't going to ask me out. If I wanted her, I'd have to initiate. If I didn't treat her well enough, she'd have stopped seeing me. If she didn't treat me well enough, I'd have stopped seeing her. We chose how we treated each other, and our relationship progressed, but we had boundaries, and we had the power to choose.

In the examples crazyblindsided gives, her STBX had choices and the power to choose. Boundaries, not control.

Sure, cbs's STBX was forced to choose between 2 options - but he was free to choose either one. If he saw a boundary as an ultimatum, that's his problem.

We're essentially faced with an ultimatum - often issued by normal life - every time we're faced with a binary choice.

See this is where I get confused because the boundaries I set were that I would not work on the M if STBX did not go to therapy. Same with devices, if he didn't agree to transparency it was over. Isn't that in a sense controlling?

No, it is not in any sense controlling. You set a standard that you need he has the option to do it or not. You have the option to enforce it or not. You cannot control what someone chooses to do or not do. You have to rethink the premise. You are setting your boundaries. You are stating what you can accept or not accept.

If you say that you cannot accept a relationship where secrecy exists and transparency doesn't, you are not forcing or controlling your partner to comply, you are stating that you will not accept a relationship that includes these things. The difficulty, and maybe confusion, comes into play if you are not willing to enforce your boundaries. If, instead of removing yourself from a relationship that does not comply with your boundaries, you instead argue and fight in an attempt to control them, that is the problem. If you are not willing to enforce your boundaries, they really are not boundaries, and it will likely lead to a weakness and arguments and anger and yelling and talk of being controlled.

You cannot control someone else. As others have made clear, you can only make clear what you can or cannot live with. But you need to be able to enforce what you say you can and cannot live with, or else have the eternal argument over how "you have no right to control me".

Establish your boundaries and what you cannot accept, then enforce it. Else, fight the "control" fight for as long as it lasts or as long as you can take it.

I saw a Dr. Phil episode quite a few years ago about a controlling wife who did not view herself as controlling. She dictated how many sodas her H could have in a day, how long he could watch tv, and what he could eat. She also laid out his clothes for him every morning. Lol. She was a nightmare.

His behavior was not hurting her, she just didn't like it. Now if they were dating, she could have said to herself, "I'm going to stop seeing him. He's into junk food and totally unmotivated. He's just not for me." That's fine. But if instead she said, "We are done unless you drink two or less sodas a day, eat five fruits and vegetables, and watch tv one hour or less." Good god! That is total control. She can walk away from the R (if she can't stand who he is) or get over it, but she doesn't get to control behaviors that have no impact other than irritating her.

My H loves to use his bread to clean his plate at the end of a meal. I find that vomit inducing, and if I said, "Absolutely not!" I'd be controlling. I just look away when he does it and laugh. But if he liked to insult me while he wiped up his plate every night by saying, "You are such an uptight, controlling, pain in my ass," I would instead say, "Look, you eat how you want and I'll look away, but if you ever speak to me that way again, you'll be moving out and meeting with my attorney." Firm boundary.

You text other women in front of me: boundary

You leave your socks on the floor: control

You drink too much and treat me badly: boundary

You watch too much sports: control

Boundaries protect you. How can you NOT have them?

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 5:20 PM, October 23rd (Friday)]

So, he’s okay to lick his plate clean then?

Not in a restaurant! Aggh! I have some food hang ups, so I know it's me and not him. He can eat however he wants.