SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I guess my situation was a little different mechanically, but the same ole shit that has been posted here.

Due to his disability (paralyzed from the armpits down) we had to really want it! At first we did it like rabbits. The problem was that he could mostly get an erection, and less frequently ejaculate...but very rarely at the same time. There were times I had to work for loooong periods of time, trying to help him finish, but it rarely happened. Having sex would make him horney, and would make me tired. The second I finished, he would want to go again. I felt bad for him but there was only so much I could do.

I guess, though, that our dead bedroom was more my fault than his. He started to withdraw from me emotionally and I responded by sleeping on the couch. Every night I asked if there was any reason to sleep in the bedroom (sexual or just closeness) and he ignored me.

At one point, while stretching, he reinjured his spinal cord and that ended erections. That’s when we got the medicine for injections. The medicine I learned he kept in his van.

After I found out about the prostitute, I was beyond crushed. He told me to get over it.

Then hysterical bonding. The thought of me responding to his being with a prostitute and being on line for porn and “talking” with women on dating sites, with me initiating sex, repulses me now.

We haven’t had sex in maybe 8 years now - I can’t even remember how long. I sleep in a different room. That’s all over for us. Now, I am basically a caregiver.

So my last sex was in my 50s. Sad.

[This message edited by WhatsRight at 6:42 AM, November 26th (Thursday)]

Sex is just a mirror and except in rare cases where there are health issues and the like if the sex is not working the relationship is not working either.

That's an entirely different issue, one that's far more complicated than lying about it to get sympathy.

Entirely dead (no sex, no touching, no kissing, etc) for 19+ months.

Prior to that, on life support.

He has PE issues amongst other reasons, that make it not pleasurable and not worth doing. It pretty much only ever happened, in this second marriage to each other, to conceive children.

[This message edited by Darkness Falls at 1:22 PM, November 26th (Thursday)]

He also gaslit me about the amount of sex we were having. To the point where I started marking it in my calendar, because he kept claiming it was much more infrequent than it actually was, and I was tired of being made to feel crazy.

This is how our DB started. He would count how many days we had sex in a month. At that time it was 15-20 out of 30 days. I believe it was a self fulfilling prophecy on his end too and the issues in our relationship would mirror our sex life. Around the time my daughter was born and I believe his first A began was a downward turn. He did use this as his excuse for his A with MOW and constantly was criticizing me for it. To this day he still talks about our D bedroom.

This is how our DB started. He would count how many days we had sex in a month. At that time it was 15-20 out of 30 days. I believe it was a self fulfilling prophecy on his end too and the issues in our relationship would mirror our sex life.

Just because people say something doesn't make it true. Hell, half the time they know it's not true and say it anyway. We all know that because As come with this little life lesson. I think that people can say they aren't getting sex when they are or that you are turning them down when it's actually them turning you down for one of two other reasons. 1. They want to play victim or have a story to tell someone else. They are looking for their own pity, someone else's pity, or pity kibbles in the form of an EA or PA. Or 2. They want to be critical as its own endgame. This is different from, "You are doing something that deserves criticism." No. Not necessarily or not at all.

The WS has other emotions, other crap going on in their heads (resentments, disappointments, frustrations, boredom, identity crisis, old age, feels worthless, useless, etc.) that most possibly have zero to do with you, but they need an outlet. They need a scapegoat. They need somewhere to put their negative thoughts and feelings. They need them gone.

Unhappy person--acts mean to feel like they handed off the unhappy baton to you. They lie to you and it upsets you. Says cruel things. Now you feel like shit!

Unhappy person--acts mean because they need sympathy and maybe ego kibbles to feel better about themselves. They get pity and smiles from someone else. Not even thinking about you, just me, me, poor me!

Either way, the problem is not whether or not they are a cheater; the problem is that they consider you a human punching bag or collateral damage--selfishly focused on only their emotional needs.

Just talking about whether or not you were having sex means they are tricking you. They full well know it was available! They were always intentionally lying to get sympathy from someone or to just hurt you. The real issue with infidelity, as we all know, is not the actual cheating. It's that they knew they were abusing you with these lies.

This is why a cheater is not remorseful when they stop cheating. Remorse is about addressing and OWNING their willingness to gaslight and lie. It's complete disrespect and abuse.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 3:26 PM, November 27th (Friday)]

CBS— your post reminded me (like a lightning bolt!) that my XWH kept a tally of all the times we had sex. For our entire 25 years. It was a list with dates and hash marks for # of times each day. When I was 25, I thought it was cute because he would correct me that it was not sex but :love-making” but then it was used against me. ** sigh** thank you for illuminating another red flag that somehow I twisted in to something cute. I am literally shaking my head right now.

XWH kept a tally of all the times we had sex. For our entire 25 years. It was a list with dates and hash marks for # of times each day.

My goodness, how different we all are. Imaging my wife doing that, well, ranks up there with the best things she could to in our relationship from my perspective. Knowing she has ANY interest in sex (or, more correctly, sex with me) would be big. If she was keeping track and upset/annoyed if we were "falling behind the pace", well.. I wouldn't spend a lot of time here, because that would be a literal dream come true for me.

The only time I've ever heard a man talk about their wives keeping track of sex is when they are trying to get pregnant. And it guess that would be OK too, but the thought of a woman keeping track because she wants to push the "number" up.. Well, that's about as erotic/sexy as I can imagine, where, for you (and I'm sure my W) it's a big negative.

RIO, I know the exact date H and I last had sex. I assure you, there is not a damn thing erotic and sexy about retaining that knowledge. 😂

Because:

My goodness, how different we all are.

[This message edited by Darkness Falls at 4:36 PM, November 28th (Saturday)]

You can say that again.

I guess, qualifying this a little bit, I'd find it very erotic if my W said something like "You know RIO, we need to have sex today 2X because we're only at 5X this week and that's below quota". Because it would show me she cares about it (sex) and wants to engage in it with me, I'd be happy if she said something like that. Where it sounds others are horrified by it.

I guess the analogy I'd give here, it would be like if my boss came to me and said "RIO, you're supposed to be slacking off for 3 hours per day and I can see from your output you're under quota, pick it up and knock off early the next few days". Well, that's not a conversation I see happening, but, if it did, I'd be thrilled, for very much the same reasons. It would tell me (ego kibble), "your doing a great job here" and it would also let me go do something else I'd rather be doing anyway. Sex, of course, is the opposite of that, I'd get the same ego kibble, but instead of NOT doing something in my work analogy, it would be to actually go do the thing that's probably my favorite way in the world to pass an hour or so.

It's hard for me to even imagine that others (including my W) see it so differently; we're just coming from a totally different frame of reference, a different amount of enjoyment of sex, different levels of guilt, IDK. But it's probably worthy of examination at some point, because it's so different between people that we're obviously not having the same experience.

While counting the # of times per week could be considered cute or endearing if it was about mutual enjoyment and trying to keep the couple as a unit on track and connected, it crosses a line when it starts feeling like the only thing you are good for as a partner. When they start making the number out to be a singular failing on your part as their spouse to satisfy them, not a lack of connection between two people that just needs some reigniting.

I think the thing is RIO, you've clearly never experienced coercive sex. And I'm not talking about they manipulate you into bed by telling you how awesome you are and you "fell for it". That's its own brand of fucked up, and the kind of ego kibble bullshit that I think many affairs (including your W's, it sounds like) are born out of.

I'm talking the kind of sex where you're doing it because the person has made it clear that they're going to be a miserable prick to you if you don't. All of the fun/excitement of sex goes out the window when it's like that. Because it now becomes about "I earn his/her common human decency by having sex with them," not "we both treat each other well, and then mutually enjoy sex with one another." It makes you a sex object. It made me feel less than human, like I might as well have been a blow up doll. There were nights where I swear to you he was not there, just vacant behind the eyes. I could have been anyone. I was just a hole.

And naturally, sex becomes much less appealing when it feels like you could literally be anyone/anything, so you stop wanting it as much, then everything becomes your fault "due" to "lack of sex." Spouse is a ranting/screaming lunatic over the tiniest inconvenience? Well, it's obvious, it's because s/he isn't getting any. It couldn't possibly be that they're an adult with the emotional regulation capabilities of a toddler, throwing a tantrum when they don't get their way? There's nothing less sexy than feeling like you have to have sex with your spouse in order for them to act like a reasonable, even semi-functional, adult.

No joke, once I got angry with him because it was the third day in a row where he came home without having gone grocery shopping, despite promising each day that he would do it on his way home, and insisting that I NOT go, because he was going to do it. His response was, "We haven't had sex in 3 weeks!" Which besides being untrue, is also a fucking insane reason for not going to the grocery store. Cool story, bro, why don't you go tell your daughters that the reason we're having canned vegetables for dinner is because you didn't get your dick wet? I'm sure that will go over well

It's the kind of wayward thinking we tell people they need to learn to stop. "Everything is about me and what I want/need in any given moment, but if I flip out/blow up it's actually your fault, not mine."

Then when you call them on it, it's the narcissist's prayer:

That didn't happen

And if it did, it wasn't that bad.

And if it was, it's not a big deal.

And if it is, it's not my fault.

And if it was, I didn't mean it.

And if I did, you deserved it.

And then they wonder why we don't want to have sex with them. And cite a DB as why we aren't deserving of their loyalty, love, affection, decency etc. Then we withdraw further because who wants to fuck someone who clearly doesn't give a fuck about you? And 'round and 'round it goes.

Fuck a dead bedroom. It sucked! I wanted to have mutually enjoyable sex with my spouse too, but he withheld that from both of us with his actions. Sure, I could have had sex in order to shut him up, and unfortunately, I did do that on several occasions. Then I figured out that his inability to control his emotions had absolutely fuck all to do with sex, and everything to do with a sick, twisted psyche. There is no satiating the insatiable!

I don't earn decency and respect by having sex with someone. Those are the bare minimum requirements you have to meet just to be in my life at all, let alone have sex with me. It became clear pretty quickly that sex was the problem, not the solution. And I wasn't about to sacrifice my emotional and physical safety to act as a glorified hole in some misguided attempt to "earn" his decency. Nobody should.

I think the thing is RIO, you've clearly never experienced coercive sex.

I think that's the crux of it. Thing is, I'm not even sure I can "imagine" what coercive sex looks like for me. Best analogy would be a "coercive winning the lottery", I'm sure there's some way I could mentally build some scenario where winning the lottery would be a negative event for me, but, it's not coming to me easily. In any situation I can easily imagine, winning the lottery is always a markedly positive event in my life. Now, much like sex, it might lead to negative consequences down the road, I might even go so far as to say "I wish I never bought that ticket" because my life spun so out of control after winning the lottery (plenty of lotto winners wind up in this situation). But it's hard to imagine sitting, watching the numbers drawn, looking at my ticket and realizing I've just won 100M dollars as a negative event.

Now, let's change this around a moment; lets say I'm watching the lotto drawing and win, just like before, but this time I'm already fantastically wealthy; I can't spend all the money I have already no matter how hard I tried. Yes, the lotto winning is still going to be exciting, but, in that situation, I can imagine it being overshadowed by other things. If, for example, I had a sick family member or friend, I might remember the night of the lotto winning more through the lens of "That was the night my friend took a turn for the worse" rather than the 100M dollar winning. I'm already rich, I can buy whatever I want, and the lotto win just doesn't have much impact on my life in that situation where my friend's health does.

I think that's what's going on here, for someone reading this who's trying to scrape by and provide for themselves/family, they can't imagine a lotto win being anything but a hugely positive event because they are "in need" of more money, it will make their life better (at least they believe it will). Because they have an absence of it, or a shortage of it, they might not be able to imagine it as anything other than a massively positive event for them. Where, for hypothetical me, it doesn't really matter one way or the other, because I've got the "money thing" handled, I can focus my attention elsewhere to other things. I have all the money I want, sure, more is better, but it's not going to be much of an event for me compared to others.

Sex in a M is sadly mostly defined by the least interested party. I want it 1X a day, you want it 1X a week, if you look at our frequency 5 years from now, it'll be much closer to 1X per week than per day. It's the principle of least interest playing out in the bedroom, the less interest you personally have in sex, the more control you have over the sexual frequency and acts engaged in.

There's nothing less sexy than feeling like you have to have sex with your spouse in order for them to act like a reasonable, even semi-functional, adult.

I can absolutely understand this; I feel the same way about "kibbles". To keep my W acting like a semi-functional person, I need to make sure to deliver the right amount and quality of kibble on a daily basis. And lots of other things would fall into this category too, gotta take out the trash and mow the lawn of she'll go insane. Sure, she's capable of doing those things herself, but, she'll be a miserable pr**k if she has to do them herself. I certainly can see how these things are different than sex, but, I don't think the "do this for me or I'll be a s**t to you" is restricted to sex. Seems, sadly, to me more "human nature" than an individual failing (or a failing specific to sexual activity).

And then they wonder why we don't want to have sex with them. And cite a DB as why we aren't deserving of their loyalty, love, affection, decency etc. Then we withdraw further because who wants to fuck someone who clearly doesn't give a fuck about you? And 'round and 'round it goes.

Yup, that's exactly the pattern that I see playing out in my close male friends. Can't get laid at home, get pissed about it and start pulling away, which leads to even less sex, then get more pissed and start drinking, leads to even less sex, then get more pissed and start to take on more and more individual hobbies, which leads to even less sex, and.. Well, you get the point; but this exact cycle is something I've seen dozens of times in my close personal male relationships.

I don't earn decency and respect by having sex with someone. Those are the bare minimum requirements you have to meet just to be in my life at all, let alone have sex with me. It became clear pretty quickly that sex was the problem, not the solution. And I wasn't about to sacrifice my emotional and physical safety to act as a glorified hole in some misguided attempt to "earn" his decency. Nobody should.

I agree with this in theory, but, in practice, I'm not sure it's a unique failing to your H. Decency is something that we, as a species, seem to dole out only when "earned". The "stepping over homeless people on the street on the way to my million dollar meeting" situation. And respect? Well, that's clearly "earned", at least for me it is. Nobody at work "respects" me until I earn it with them, and if I do something stupid, I'll lose that respect 10X more quickly than I earned it. I'm not disagreeing with you, I think that respect and decency ARE things that we should provide to other people in our lives, those we love, and those we just interact with on a daily basis. Where I am disagreeing; while I think we both agree that's the way it "should be", I don't think that's the way it "is" at all. The younger me would say "My wife loves me just for how awesome I am, and how wonderful a person I am" (actually, I wouldn't say that, but, let's just leave that alone for now). Now? Just like everyone else in my life, I'd say my wife loves me because "I've earned it". It's nothing intrinsic to me, it's just making sure I've done the right things to earn her love (which, for her, is the "right kibble"). My starry eyed youth was more "People love me for who I am", where today I'm much more "People love (or respect) me because of what I can do for them". Sadly, I think the latter is far more an accurate description of the world than the first.