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Reconciliation :
Update - 40 Years Ago - Still A Problem Today

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HouseOfPlane ( member #45739) posted at 12:02 AM on Friday, July 16th, 2021

It is interesting to do, for its own merit. My daughter did it, which convinced my mom to do it. She has sworn for years that she has American Indian in her lineage. It came back...1% west African. Heads exploded.

DDay 1986: R'd, it was hard, hard work.

“Tell me, what is it you plan to do
with your one wild and precious life?”
― Mary Oliver

posts: 3366   ·   registered: Nov. 25th, 2014
id 8675916
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HouseOfPlane ( member #45739) posted at 12:04 AM on Friday, July 16th, 2021

Also, google on DNA toothbrush testing.

DDay 1986: R'd, it was hard, hard work.

“Tell me, what is it you plan to do
with your one wild and precious life?”
― Mary Oliver

posts: 3366   ·   registered: Nov. 25th, 2014
id 8675918
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sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 12:06 AM on Friday, July 16th, 2021

In your original thread she finally came clean that the affair continued after you were married and the reason she did was you bringing up her taking a poly.

A poly is limited to 3-4 questions. I would bet that every BS begins with has lots more than 3-4 questions, the vast majority of which are no the type that a poly can resolve. From what I've read here, it takes lots of info before a half-way wise BS can develop 3-4 yes/no questions for a poly.

OTOH, RaleighGuy, you can't heal if you let fear govern what you do. If you think of some info that you want more than 1-3 times, you need the info, and you probably won't be able to heal without making an honest effort to get it. Bravery is doing what needs to be done even though you're scared.

Doing the DNA testing as a family project sounds like a good idea.

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex apDDay - 12/22/2010Recover'd and R'edYou don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 31005   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
id 8675920
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Booyah ( member #60124) posted at 1:07 AM on Friday, July 16th, 2021

Sisoon looks to me that he is "letting fear govern what he does".

He talks about things that he's learned. That "the truth will set you free".

He learned some "truth" (something he was seeking for over forty years) when he brought up her taking a poly. She confirms that the affair continued even after they were married.

Instead of following through on the poly to get more answers he freaking cancels the poly two days before??

Does someone who desperately wants the "truth" do this? Not just no but HELL NO!!!

"The Truth will set you free"??

If you really wanted the "truth" you would have followed through on the poly ten months ago especially after dealing with this for the past forty years.

Notice he hasn't addressed why he canceled the poly.

posts: 1254   ·   registered: Aug. 11th, 2017
id 8675942
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survrus ( member #67698) posted at 3:18 AM on Friday, July 16th, 2021

RG,

An alternate approach to the DNA test is just to tell your sons why you want them to take it.

Considering what your WW did to you she has no right to expect you to hide her transgression.

posts: 1537   ·   registered: Nov. 1st, 2018   ·   location: USA
id 8675971
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Booyah ( member #60124) posted at 1:55 PM on Friday, July 16th, 2021

Raleigh, I apologize if I'm coming across too harsh.

One man to another. The pain in your original thread screams out. The ups and downs over forty years of not knowing and how the pain rears its head and tortures your soul and the price you've paid living this way.

So you found SI, and countless members (including myself) suggested trying a polygraph as it was an option that you had yet to use trying to get answers to the numerous questions you've had for years.

You had it all set up, and then you disappear from SI for ten months, only to come back to tell us that your wife did come clean on one HUGE question you've been seeking the answer to (that the A did continue after your wedding).

I'm sure hearing this hurt like hell but you had to have seen the power that having her take a poly could bring you answers to many of the other unanswered questions that you've had and have been trying to deal with for over forty years.

So, you're here for a reason, you came back after ten months, in order for the people here at SI to help you it would certainly help for you to put your cards on the table and really communicate what's going on in your heart and mind?

If you're here to just vent fine, but if you want help it would behoove you to come clean and talk to us.

So can you try to explain to us why you canceled the poly two days before it was scheduled knowing you'd get more answers to your questions and ultimately be one step closer to really knowing what you were dealing with and hopefully (no matter how much that truth would hurt) would get you headed to what you've been seeking for FORTY YEARS.......PEACE!!

posts: 1254   ·   registered: Aug. 11th, 2017
id 8676074
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Thumos ( member #69668) posted at 2:49 PM on Friday, July 16th, 2021

What booyah said. And maybe stick to one thread where it is easier to keep track to help you.

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH: 50, WW: 49 Wed: Feb.'96 DDAY1: 12.20.16 DDAY2: 12.23.19

posts: 4598   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2019   ·   location: UNITED STATES
id 8676090
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 RaleighGuy (original poster member #75271) posted at 12:36 AM on Sunday, July 18th, 2021

Sooooooooo, why in the world would I cancel the polygraph test 2 days before it was scheduled? Crazy, huh?

First and foremost: I have absolutely NO regrets for doing this. None. Zero. Zilch. In my way of reasoning, there were very good reasons for cancelling it. Some of you may not agree with the rationale outlined below, and that is perfectly fine. But, given the same set of circumstances, I’d make precisely the same decision again.

On Saturday, August 08 of last year I had my own version of D-Day 2. That’s when I sat my WW down at the dining room table and made her look me in the eye (something we had NEVER done previously) and started asking her specific questions about the affair that had never been answered. Right out of the gates, I let her know that a polygraph test was already lined-up for a Sunday in mid-September. All questions I would ask would be revisited during the exam (or so I thought at the time. I understand now that this isn't how it works).

Among the first things I asked about was whether the affair continued after our honeymoon. She had vehemently denied this since the time I discovered the letters and up to present. But there were passages in a several of the letters that referenced late night meetings. The ONLY time these could have possibly occurred was post-honeymoon when I started a job that required me to work overnight. While I had never believed her denials over the years, it was only in recent weeks that it struck me the answer had been in front of me all along.

So, yes. She did admit to seeing him after she was told of the impending polygraph. But there really wasn’t any way for her to deny it. Did knowledge of the impending polygraph test have something to do with that? Probably……..but I can’t say with certainty. Neither can anyone reading my threads.

In the weeks leading up to the cancellation, there were more admissions. Yes, that’s right. More facts came out. But like the one mentioned above, almost (but not all of them) were things about the affair that were blatantly obvious – mostly regarding places they met, sex acts performed, etc.

Call it what you will, but a ‘parking lot confession’ comes through coercion. And I have no problem with that. But a number of details had emerged prior to the date of the polygraph – some of which were obviously embarrassing for her and painful for both of us. In my world, obtaining a full accounting of what had occurred because she wanted to clear the air is infinitely better than admission through coercion. I had every reason to believe other details would be revealed – perhaps even in gratitude for cancelling the exam.

In fact, more details DID emerge after cancellation. At that time, it validated my decision to cancel. But almost all of the admissions were minor in nature and mostly just stated what was already obvious. She also entered into counseling. This once again raised hope that she would finally come clean.

It didn’t happen. My hopes were eventually dashed. The admissions slowed to a trickle and completely dried up. She stopped counseling and has stonewalled ever since. But at least I tried instead of plowing ahead with an exam that would never give me all the answers I want. The only redeeming thing is that I am now getting the aptly named “super wife” treatment.

There’s one lesser factor that played into the decision: The effectiveness & accuracy of these exams are questionable at best. Where did I find this out? Here. On SI. From other posters. Certainly there have been some good outcomes. But if you look through my threads and others’ they are rife with bad results and warnings to lower my expectations - including some posted over the last couple of days. They include incidents where the WS passed the test and were later found out to be lying. Or worse, passed and got caught cheating again. That doesn’t mean polygraph testing isn’t still on the table……but my expectation of it being the “end all, be all” to my quest for answers is diminished considerably. And if I choose to go down that road again, I want it to count in divorce proceedings.

So, what’s the next step? The first thing I’ve done is increase the frequency of my counseling sessions to get input on the new direction I'm taking The second was to select a divorce attorney. There are a zillion of them in the area in which I live. But I don’t leap before I look. I have screened them down to two that meet all of my criteria. I will schedule the initial consult on Monday – hopefully for sometime later in the upcoming week. Two topics that will be discussed: The best way to go about setting up another polygraph test whose results can be used in a possible separation/divorce proceeding. And how to go about paternity testing that will have some teeth if parting ways becomes the solution to finally putting this sad chapter to rest.

Finally, some of the comments about my cancellation of the polygraph exam have been harsh to say the least. That’s okay, I’m a big boy. I own the decision to cancel the exam and should have expected some criticism. I am seeking input and DO NOT WANT ANYONE TO PULL PUNCHES – even if you consider it to be whining. Tell me what you think – I want to hear it. I may not like it and may disagree and discard your advice. However, at the very least I will give it consideration.

BUT………….

At the end of the day, this is my marriage & my life and I will continue to do what I am most comfortable with. I will also continue to seek input at SI and elsewhere that will help shape my decisions. I have a 41 year marriage, two boys, their wives and two granddaughters I love more than life itself. That means treading carefully is prudent.

Will I move hastily and without making sure of avoiding pitfalls before acting? Absolutely not. But rest assured this is going to end one way or another.

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Cooley2here ( member #62939) posted at 1:22 AM on Sunday, July 18th, 2021

“WW, I have a couple of things I need to discuss with you. Are you interested in staying married to me? I’m thinking about the possibility of separation and divorce. I thought you ought to know that’s what’s been on my mind for a long time. You have stonewalled me for 40 years about something that has altered what I feel about you. I’ve loved you all the years but now I’m beginning to resent you more than I love you. I’m setting up appointments with attorneys to discuss the possibility of divorce.It’s going to kill me to have to tell my boys this is what I need to do but unless you can tell me all of it, every bit of it, about your affair I can’t go on like this.”

Be prepared for her to agree to a divorce. Be prepared for her to beg you not to do it. You have no idea how she’s going to react but one thing you can do, you can control whether or not you stay if she continues to stonewall.

There is the fact that she is no longer a young woman so she is probably mortified by her behavior and that might be why she cannot bring herself to tell you everything.

[This message edited by Cooley2here at 7:25 PM, July 17th (Saturday)]

When things go wrong, don’t go with them. Elvis

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 RaleighGuy (original poster member #75271) posted at 9:31 AM on Sunday, July 18th, 2021

Cooley2Here: Interesting you should post this advice. So far, I have fought off the urge to do almost exactly what you recommend in favor of keeping it secret....and then dropping the bomb after speaking with the attorney. Clearly, the approach I've used so far hasn't yielded the results desired. And I am only 3 weeks away from giving her a full year to level with me - hard to make a case I haven't been patient. Do I let her know "a storm is heading your way" without telling her the specifics? Or keep it 'close to the vest' and not show my hand?

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DIFM ( member #1703) posted at 11:53 AM on Sunday, July 18th, 2021

Or keep it 'close to the vest' and not show my hand?

Yes. Just do and say nothing. Nothing gained by saying more than you have said over all these years and expecting something different. Saying anything just provides more opportunity for all the same she has provided to this point.

Say nothing. Do.

posts: 1757   ·   registered: Jul. 14th, 2003
id 8676531
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Booyah ( member #60124) posted at 3:21 PM on Sunday, July 18th, 2021

"Will I move hastily"?

To be blunt, you really haven't done anything of significance for over forty years. So it's quite obvious you won't do anything "hastily".

Yes she's stonewalled you for forty years but YOU let her. She's never had to face a consequence and that's because you repeatedly swept it under the carpet and would do so each and every time it reared its head.

All that's been done for forty years is surface oriented talking.

Time to take action. You're saying you're going to take action but let's see if you follow through. Hopefully you do so because it's pretty obvious this is gutting you to your core.

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sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 3:52 PM on Sunday, July 18th, 2021

If you haven't yet told your W what the consequences of continued stonewalling will be, cooley's way will work. I'd use fewer words, maybe something like, 'Look, I'm not sure I can live with you if you don't come clean,' but that's a difference in style, not in meaning.

I think being clear about your boundaries is crucial, for you and for your W.

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex apDDay - 12/22/2010Recover'd and R'edYou don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 31005   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
id 8676552
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HappilyMarried1 ( member #77296) posted at 6:24 PM on Sunday, July 18th, 2021

Hey @RaleighGuy

I'm not sure if you saw my post on the other thread so I thought I would re-post it here since you said that you would only be using this one going further.

I know this may sound way out there, but hear me out. I have seen and read about a fair amount of success with using hypnosis. Here is one clinical definition of hypnosis- Hypnosis allows you to remain calm under pressure which can help you recall information. As long as you have it in your memory, it can be recalled.

Just wanted to throw something out there in addition to the poly and possibly get the information you deserve.

I also think that if you let her know of your plans to discuss a divorce with an attorney that if there is any hope of of getting through this no more trickle truth's and all questions must be answered completely. Best of luck!

posts: 70   ·   registered: Feb. 11th, 2021
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Cooley2here ( member #62939) posted at 7:13 AM on Monday, July 19th, 2021

There is a reason she won’t tell. Ask her what it is. I don’t think she can remember much. My memories are here and there. Little snippets of time.

See if you can get a third party to help you get through to her.

I also think hypnosis is not too out there. It might actually help.

When things go wrong, don’t go with them. Elvis

posts: 4544   ·   registered: Mar. 5th, 2018   ·   location: US
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jb3199 ( member #27673) posted at 3:18 PM on Monday, July 19th, 2021

RG,

I guess the million dollar question, for me at least, is do you feel she is deliberately stonewalling/concealing information? Because to me, it's the intent behind this. Is her concern more for you or for her?

I really like Cooley's reply. Nothing works like the truth--you are unwilling to continue like this. So she can either help you put your mind to rest(through actions that YOU believe she is taking to get you information), or if you do not believe that to be the case, you will have to heal entirely on your own....and that would be without her in a relationship, because she would be preventing your healing by her presence and behavior.

BH-50s
WW-50s
2 boys
Married over 30yrs.

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary PuckettD-Day(s): EnoughAccepting that I can/may end this marriage 7/2/14

posts: 4376   ·   registered: Feb. 21st, 2010   ·   location: northeast
id 8676701
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Thumos ( member #69668) posted at 3:32 PM on Monday, July 19th, 2021

So she gave you trickle truth for decades, then the admissions became more pronounced after she learned about the scheduled polygraph, then essentially dried up after you cancelled the polygraph.

Got it, thanks.

"STONEWALLING: The last, but certainly not least, of the Four Horsemen of Marriage is stonewalling. Stonewalling is, well, what it sounds like. In a discussion or argument, the listener withdraws from the interaction, shutting down and closing themselves off from the speaker because they are feeling overwhelmed or physiologically flooded. Metaphorically speaking, they build a wall between them and their partner.

Rather than confronting the issue, someone who is stonewalling will be totally unresponsive, making evasive maneuvers such as tuning out, turning away, acting busy, or engaging in obsessive behaviors. It takes time for the negativity created by the first three horsemen to become overwhelming enough that stonewalling becomes an understandable “out,” but when it does, it frequently becomes a habit."

The best way to go about setting up another polygraph test whose results can be used in a possible separation/divorce proceeding.

If you live in a no-fault state, adultery can be grounds for divorcing, obviously, but that's really about it. No fault states won't hold an adulterer's feet to the fire at all. An attorney might tell you otherwise, but polygraphs for a divorce in a no-fault state seems pointless.

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH: 50, WW: 49 Wed: Feb.'96 DDAY1: 12.20.16 DDAY2: 12.23.19

posts: 4598   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2019   ·   location: UNITED STATES
id 8676705
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Thumos ( member #69668) posted at 3:34 PM on Monday, July 19th, 2021

I'm sorry if I've missed this but did you ever get a narrative timeline written out by her in her own hand, pen and paper, many pages in length?

A WRITTEN timeline, rather than continued verbal discussion, puts a halt to the "I've told you everything" phenomenon. It also makes the ugliness of the affair even more tangible and visceral for the wayward.

And it makes shifting stories and gaslighting much more difficult.

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH: 50, WW: 49 Wed: Feb.'96 DDAY1: 12.20.16 DDAY2: 12.23.19

posts: 4598   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2019   ·   location: UNITED STATES
id 8676706
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Apparition ( member #75755) posted at 3:36 PM on Monday, July 19th, 2021

I have mixed emotions about your WW’s inability to recall. On one hand, 4 decades is a long time, I can’t remember much detail 4 decades ago regarding sexual partners or much else with specificity. On the other hand, waywards selective memory loss is a very real occurrence and extremely damaging, Its really a form of gaslighting, all our normal interactions over a lifetime with other people and our spouses give us a gauge of memory recall. Suddenly, we have our spouses claiming absurd and amazingly self serving memory loss. We’re supposed to choke this down as reality, causing us very real mental anguish.

So on your other post and questions to recall I find myself conflicted. Your WWs recall doesn’t seem out of bounds to normal, yet it also sounds amazingly selective. No advice, just empathizing with your dilemma. I understand the anguish.

[This message edited by Apparition at 5:57 PM, July 19th (Monday)]

Me: BH
Her: WW (expert serial cheater)
Status: Divorcing

posts: 222   ·   registered: Oct. 28th, 2020
id 8676707
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 RaleighGuy (original poster member #75271) posted at 4:31 PM on Monday, July 19th, 2021

Thumos:

So she gave you trickle truth for decades, then the admissions became more pronounced after she learned about the scheduled polygraph, then essentially dried up after you cancelled the polygraph.

Got it, thanks.

Casual observation: You are advancing your own narrative here. You are so consumed with your disagreement of the last minute cancellation of the poly test that you are reading your bias into my responses.

What I have said is that there were indeed more admissions after the cancellation. And while they were relatively minor in nature, they were still admissions that were did not result from the specter of an upcoming polygraph.

Other points you are missing - and certainly do not have to agree with:

In my world, obtaining a full accounting of what had occurred because she wanted to clear the air is infinitely better than admission through coercion.

She also entered into counseling.

NOT because of fear of the polygraph.

But at least I tried instead of plowing ahead with an exam that would never give me all the answers I want.

You can continue to disagree with MY decision and the rationale behind it. But let's get down to brass tacks here:

Are you willing to say with dead certainty that if I had not cancelled the polygraph exam that I would have gotten 100% of the information desired and peace of mind?

If not, get over it.

You are encouraged to continue dispensing advice. But I ask that you read and consider all contents in my posts - not just your interpretations of the passages that fit your predetermined agenda that going through with a polygraph would have resulted in a full accounting from my WW and some sort of panacea.

The Poly would NOT have given me everything I'm looking for - if anything at all. And the threat or actual administration of another poly exam at some point in the future won't either.

posts: 67   ·   registered: Aug. 27th, 2020
id 8676719
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