SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Feb, don't reply to her at all. Just leave her hanging as others have suggested. That's alpha all the way.

When she's ready to talk to you face to face and respect you, I would engage her. I would not speak with her on the phone or e-mail unless it's utilitarian in nature (kids, MIL, normal stuff). I would not talk or type about your marriage. That is reserved for two adults in person privately talking about their marriage. When she's ready to sit down like a grown up, act like a grown up, then you can treat her like one, but until then, it's not doing you any good. You gain nothing by speaking to her over the phone or e-mail. It's not personal, there is no immediate response, there is too much safety in distance or the "send" button. When you have to look someone in the eye and speak with them and be held accountable for those words instantly. Simply put, you can't hold your nose and mouth the words in person.

don't go all bad boy or alpha trying to get her to see you in a new light

I would never suggest he start acting like a bad boy..lol. I'm simply suggesting that he stop acting like a parent.

I think it's easy and common for marriages between man/woman to turn into a marriage between a parent/child. The dynamics can change without it even being noticed. But when it happens it can really erode feelings of desire for the spouse in the parent role and or the spouse in the child role.

I was the parent in my marriage and it took a toll on my libido and how physically attracted I was to my H. My WH was the child and it had the same affect on him as well. After dday, the first thing I did was take off the apron and make him put his big boy pants on. As ridiculous and warped as his A was, they had a man/woman relationship going on. There was no way in hell I was going to be his parent ever again. There's nothing healthy about the parent/child dynamic.

He got beat up pretty hard yesterday

The members understand that an A is a profound life-altering crisis and it's no one's intention to beat up a BS. A new BS may hear things that are emotionally difficult to hear and hard to process. But there are very few unique A related situations and therefore no reason to reinvent the wheel. The advice being given is that doing so could cause a lot more damage.

Affairs are abusive. They're abusive to the BS and they're abusive to the children. The self-absorbed WS may love their children but not beyond their own personal desires. It's a very selfish love and if it were deeper than that, the kid's hearts wouldn't be on the verge of being broken and their lives as they know it on the verge of being changed...at least not over an A.

I watched my WH turn white as a ghost when he realized that his selfishness was greater than his love for his children. That the level of love he felt put them in danger. His awareness was the only reason I could R with him.

But I understand that everyone measures love differently.

I think it's easy and common for marriages between man/woman to turn into a marriage between a parent/child. The dynamics can change without it even being noticed. But when it happens it can really erode feelings of desire for the spouse in the parent role and or the spouse in the child role.

I didn't notice it happening...I just thought there was nothing wrong with a husband being good to his wife...didn't realize that instead of making me appreciated and desirable, it made her take me for granted and lose respect.

I watched my WH turn white as a ghost when he realized that his selfishness was greater than his love for his children.

I wonder if this moment is in our future. She does love our kids...until the last year (less, really) she has been a great mother.

Feb, don't reply to her at all. Just leave her hanging as others have suggested. That's alpha all the way.

That's what I'm doing right now. Kids and MIL may want to Skype with her , but we're at my sister's tonight...so maybe tomorrow.

And no, riseandshine, I couldn't pull off the bad boy thing. I'm a good guy, that's a big reason she married me.

I couldn't pull off the bad boy thing. I'm a good guy, that's a big reason she married me.

I have not responded to her email, so I just got a text (service is bad down there, she's likely on a bike ride and found a signal)

don't give up on us...i miss you...im scared to come home...you feel aggressive towards ending things...

OK, let's see if I'm getting any better at this....

Feb,

I see a lot of I, I, I and how she feels, but still no commitment to work on the marriage...

How'd I do?

I will think about what it really means...there is some progress there "don't give up on us"

Honey, that is just manipulation. Until she says

I screwed up, I will go NC, I will get into IC, I will go totally transparent and I will not be alone with ANY man ANYWHERE,

and says this face to face (not hundreds of miles apart, it is still her begging for her fantasy life that she wants, where you take care of the kids while she is off doing her thing (see nice again )

I know you want to see the good and the hope, but honey, take off the sunglasses so you can see the reality. SHe is still concerned about her, her wants, needs, etc...

Actions, not words.

I didn't notice it happening...I just thought there was nothing wrong with a husband being good to his wife...didn't realize that instead of making me appreciated and desirable, it made her take me for granted

Feb, I think that after the shock and horror of the A lifts, personal recovery begins. It's a long road that can be very unpleasant but enlightening and necessary regardless of R or D. That's the stage where you take a magnifying glass to yourself, your WS and the dynamics of your M.

From your posts it sounds like you're the one who makes a lot of the sacrifices. It sounds like you clean up a lot of her messes. You're the one consoling a crying child. You're the one who will be celebrating the birthday. You're the one staying home with the kids instead of biking. Why? Is it really as simple as you being a good husband? How happy were you? You look deep into stuff like this during personal recovery.

I wonder if this moment is in our future. She does love our kids...until the last year (less, really) she has been a great mother.

I personally don't believe that A's are an abberation, but regardless, unless she has a personality disorder there's a good chance that an awareness is in the future. I think that it's a big awareness, a painful self-realization that requires hitting rock bottom first.

I couldn't pull off the bad boy thing. I'm a good guy, that's a big reason she married me.

Bad boys never did *it* for me.

A hazard of being a good guy or girl can be that personal boundaries get lost in a relationship. When or if that happens, the state of being good can turn into the state of being a martyr. If that happened, correct it. If it hasn't happened, watch out for it.

YOu are getting better at it. LOL (seeing the I, I, I)

Great job !

Feb,

Sounds like she knows she should have come home.

Instead she infers that it would be dangerous fo her to do so.

Sorry, just my take.

T

She is still playing you.

You are so desperate to save this M that you'll grasp for hope reading one pronoun -- "us."

She knows this. And she uses that hope to manipulate you. She is using your good guy quailities -- your belief in her intrinsic goodness, your ability to shoulder more of the family life burdens, your self sacrifice, your wanting an intact family, your love of your kids and MIL -- and she is playing a game of chicken with you. To fuck around and live a selfish fantasy.

Don't get stuck on who your WW once was -- I also don't think As are aberrations --pay attention to who she IS now. Deal with the reality you have been dealt.

Per having only your side. I'll tell you what a shrink once said to me. I recounted all the horrors of his cheating and lying, but like you now, still insisted -- oh, well he has this good quality and that nice thing.

Shrink said:

Are you making any of those horrors up?

No.

Are you embroidering this tale?

No. (If anything, I held back.)

Then,she said, this person is very toxic. People in crisis, to get through it, they minimize the abuse. Oh its not so bad. (I don't see myself as the sort of person who gets played or married a narcissist.)

I see you doing that -- giving her the benefit of the doubt when you should be saving yourself.

She is manipulating you.

I agree with Tahiti. Clearly she has thought about coming home. For whatever reason, she doesn't want to. And being "scared" doesn't sound remotely like it's coming from someone grounded in reality. Unless you're a really scary guy IRL (which you don't sound like here, btw). Not saying she's completely lying about it, she could be fogged enough for this to be plausible in her mind right now.

Bottom line is, she's thought about coming home, but isn't making any effort to do that. At least the signs are clear when you look at them objectively. It sucks, but not as bad as totally mixed messages.

"What you do speaks so loudly that I cannot hear what you say" [Ralph Waldo Emerson]

Actions, not words.

yes actions, like going hundreds of miles away leavig you with a shit burger to eat all the while telling you by text and email your a fool to aggressively protest to eating it.

Actions really do speak louder than words. As I found out from my wife words are meaningless, they will tell you whatever they think gives them control of the situation.

focus on thursday and dont respond to such blameshifting gaslighting BS!

Strength to FEB!

AHH! squiffle this is a direct hit on the old marriage idea, this is the old dead marriage hes holding on too

your belief in her intrinsic goodness, your ability to shoulder more of the family life burdens, your self sacrifice, your wanting an intact family, your love of your kids and MIL

You are starting to sound like Bigger. Bully to you.

[This message edited by lordhasaplan? at 11:32 AM, March 29th (Tuesday)]

LOL

Sorry, slight t/j but

lordhasaplan made me laugh when

Lord said she is giving out shit burgers. LOL

OK. Back to the thread now. Just found the Lord/shitburger quite funny. I think I need a break from SI and Dave Ramsey Forums.

Sorry. That was probably really inmature on my part.

...im scared to come home...you feel aggressive towards ending things...

Interesting how blame-shifting always manages to rear it's ugly head in tough situations. What she is afraid of is called reality.

-t2g

And no, riseandshine, I couldn't pull off the bad boy thing. I'm a good guy, that's a big reason she married me.

You make it sound like she had your number from the beginning.

But, it's all about balance. Do you even know what a "shit test" is? I sure didn't, but I do now. There is a guy who has a blog called "married man sex life." It's all about how to balance "nice guy" and "bad boy" to keep your wife from riding off with other guys. A lot of the stuff he has there is very very good and I wish I had understood it 30 years ago.

Feb.

It is okay to hope. Keep your hope in a safe place. Do not expose it to her.

I know how much you want to fan the flames of the little embers you see in the emails and text.

What she says doesn't mean shit. What she has done is show you who she is. She is a person who leaves on a vacation with 3 men soon after her affair is dicovered. You gave her the choice and she chose.

Because she wanted to. And now she needs to sow the seeds for her arrival home. And now the history re-writng can happen.

She wants you to quell her fears and assure her that you are not agressive.... She wants the easy button. She is used to your love and caring. She wants that now.

She is used to that. She counts on that. It is hard to digest that her most effective weapon against YOU would be the love you have for her.

Don't respond. Try to see her for who she is right now. Not who she was or what you hope she can be again.

[This message edited by redrock at 12:00 PM, March 29th (Tuesday)]

I do see the manipulation.

Why the hell would she be scared to come home? Nervous and apprehensive, sure, but scared? I refuse to respond to that.

I'm getting a text right now...

stay strong big brother...actions speak louder than words..*hugs*

Wow, my little sis sounds just like one of you (us?)

It's hard not to reply...I don't want to appear that I'm playing games...I have lots of time to think..I'm at work and should not be checking text messages (or reading/posting on SI for that matter)

You're the one staying home with the kids instead of biking. Why? Is it really as simple as you being a good husband? How happy were you? You look deep into stuff like this during personal recovery.

Interesting...I was happy because I thought I was doing my part for my family while still doing things for myself (I did ride the equivalent of over 10000km last year, probably did over 20 races, went to France for 10 days). It's not as though every ride started at 5:30 in the morning or I never got out of the house on my own.

I guess the consensus is to not reply (especially not too soon), or to keep it very short?

Do not reply. It will bug the living shit out of her, because simply by not replying you have the initiative.