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In seriousness though it's kind of sad, because I can tell WW really wants to take responsibility, but something in her just can't let herself do it. It's so... odd.

Does she think that you're that much of an idiot that you're going to believe the "trying to convince myself" lie?

If what's happened to date was "an attempt to convince herself", or even a number of attempts, then I would really, really hate to see what would go down if she'd actually succeeded with her attempt.

She'd probably get into my XW territory. And I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Because, so far, at least no lives have been lost and I would hope for everybody's sake - including that of your WW - that it stays that way.

Default Posted: 5:53 PM, August 14th (Monday), 2017 View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In seriousness though it's kind of sad, because I can tell WW really wants to take responsibility, but something in her just can't let herself do it. It's so... odd.

Well in an odd sort of way...good for you. When she unilaterally decided to end your marriage that ceased being your problem.

As we often say here - not my circus, not my monkies.

I really do suggest you expand your in-person support network. A buddy or two filled in on what's happening to you will make your support burden feel drastically less.

In a way, I think that odd state of mind / mental gymnastics also explains how she was able to shift so quickly on the OM, from being in love with him to now being completely repulsed by him. I think a lot of it is her telling herself, "He used me! He never meant any of the things he said!"

After all, there are two people to blame for this mess. And if she can't rationalize how it's all her fault, then by process of elimination it must be all *his* fault.

CSCE's thread has pretty much died off. Not one reply since her last reply to a whole bunch of ppl a couple days ago. I kind of feel bad for her...but ppl here don't know her and have no reason to interact if they don't feel she's being honest, and it seems that all of her minimizing has made ppl stop trying with her.

[This message edited by GoldenR at 6:28 PM, August 14th (Monday)]

CSCE's thread has pretty much died off. Not one reply since her last reply to a whole bunch of ppl a couple days ago. I kind of feel bad for her...but ppl here don't know her and have no reason to interact if they don't feel she's being honest, and it seems that all of her minimizing has made ppl stop trying with her.

Oh shit that actually makes me sad.

She has a more current thread with a stop sign...perhaps that has more activity.

That was the 'Look at me!' When she attempted to play the victimization card. That fell off too

At worst a person or two were mildly blunt.

Ugh has everybody in her thread turned on her since I showed up? Honestly that makes me feel like I should leave this place and find my own safe space somewhere else.

What you may not know, is that forum is a protected forum. It is heavily moderated. Betrayed spouses might be blunt, but disrespect and two by fours are not allowed. I've read her posts saying she was two by foured, felt bullied,etc. If that had happened,the mods would've shut it down immediately. No. She was asked some hard questions. Some called her out on the minimizing and blame shifting. Some told her her actions don't match her words. But no one has been mean to her.

Many waywards feel hyper sensitive at first. And many get defensive. They're used to lying. Some have learned how to lie very well to their spouse,and themselves. So,when anonymous people on a forum can see through their shit, it scares them. They feel vulnerable. Which isn't a bad thing.

Nobody has turned on her really, people are very respectful. The thread with a stop sign is just for wayward spouses and it's on similar time and activity.

It's like the wayward version of thepainisreal thread here.

She needs professional help, not internet friends proving a helpful ear.

I was one of the people posting on CSCE's thread. She answered 2 of my questions. I haven't posted anything since. I just think it is so damn tragic what she did to herself and to you. More than anything else, infidelity is just sad and heartbreaking. Many WW's never get it, or if they do, it is way too late to save their marriage.

She has so much to process, and she is way ahead of where most waywards are so soon after d-day . I hope she doesn't take it personally, but I think she has more than enough to ponder at the moment. Just letting her chew things over mentally.

Since CSCE is completely unable to come in here and respond to all of the people discussing her threads and talking about her , please continue to support the OP without discussing her posts in Wayward. It's not fair and it's against the guidelines.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 1:24 AM, August 20th (Sunday)]

Luxury, sometimes a WS may genuinely want to fix themselves and yet be incapable due to their own mental health problems. Your WW has clearly had issues that she hasn't addressed for years. It will take a very long time to untangle that mess for her to even start to be in a place where she's capable on working on becoming a safe partner.

Luxury, sometimes a WS may genuinely want to fix themselves and yet be incapable due to their own mental health problems. Your WW has clearly had issues that she hasn't addressed for years. It will take a very long time to untangle that mess for her to even start to be in a place where she's capable on working on becoming a safe partner.

Yeah I get that. I know she's trying, too. And honestly I do feel bad for her. But holy hell is it tempting to say, "not my problem," and leave.

I'm sure your WW took as insensitive my one brief comment on her thread, where I referenced the word 'reality'.

So be it.

[This message edited by MidnightRun at 12:49 AM, August 15th (Tuesday)]

tempting to say, "not my problem," and leave.

You are now damaged and frankly should just be worrying about your own recovery. You run the real risk of white knighting this problem into the background. OhForANewMe did a great job handling this, I'd encourage you to read his story. Both he and his STBX are healing and they have the additional variable of having two kids.

Hi LuxuryJellO

I have read your posts since day one. With each post I have wanted to respond but felt that my posts were too strongly worded. I have identified more with your situation that with any other BH on SI and so felt that in my responses I was self projecting too much and that I might damage a potential to R. But with each post your journey has become closer to mine. The only difference is we have 24 years M and 2 kids, but take that out and our stories are the same.

On Sunday evening I had a minor meltdown (I have shared about this in a thread in D/S) when I read your thread. This was because I read that your WW would be moving back home and I flashed back to when my WW moved back home and how she continued to stage manage me and tried to manage the R. She spent weeks reviewing our relationship showing me all the good times in an attempt to get me to recognise why our M was worth working for. All it did was reinforce how much of what I had held dearest that she had then brutally murdered.

It was after she moved back that my world became darker than you can ever imagine. My life was only saved by a consummate professional who knew what to do. If you don't have someone like that who is in daily, close contact with you you might not survive what awaits you when she moves back. It was this realisaation, where I can see it coming, but can do nothing, that caused my meltdown. Out of empathy for you.

I made a promise to myself not to read in your thread again, but when I saw in the summary that Sharkman had posted I ventured back. I got a ton of good advice from many people on my thread but his was the best of the best.

For now and until you are fully healed, your focus needs to be on you. Only you.

Only once you are safe, comfortable and confident, will you be in any place to then worry about WW or the M.

Please don't take my words lightly. I was a totally in control man. Confident and in control of all in my life. I was an arrogant git. To me depression meds were only for losers who were not real men, until they saved my life.

As Sharkman says, I am well on my way to being fully healed. Actually, I feel fully healed until I have days like Sunday evening, but even then I know how to deal with it and in fact it is because I am a better person now than I was then. You will get there but only when you make your healing your priority.

Please read my thread. It will give you insights from the wise counsel of the SI community that you will find invaluable. I think that it might give you some insight into 2 possible paths and help you make a more informed decision

[This message edited by ohforanewme at 5:10 AM, August 15th (Tuesday)]

In seriousness though it's kind of sad, because I can tell WW really wants to take responsibility, but something in her just can't let herself do it. It's so... odd.

I think I am probably generally pretty hard on W's, and not real positive about the outcome of R. That said, keep in mind that your wife is broken, and the above is simply a symptom of that brokenness. Everything that she knows about herself is caving in. Her whole existence was a really nice looking house of cards, and now that it's fallen, she has no idea what to do. The first thing she is going to do is rely on her coping skills, which are unbelievably shitty and destructive (cutting, blame-shifting, lying, infidelity).

"I suppose it is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail."

~Maslow

She could probably take responsibility without the qualifier at this point, but it wouldn't be sincere, because she doesn't know what that means. She is probably at a point that she is literally able to conceive her true responsibility for the affair, nor the damage it has caused. Right now, she only has a hammer.

Yeah I get that. I know she's trying, too. And honestly I do feel bad for her. But holy hell is it tempting to say, "not my problem," and leave.

Here's the rub. It's not your job to stick around and help her through this.

If you do decide to stay in the marriage, based on what I know about this "personality type", I'd give her one (and one only) chance to come clean about everything. Any behavior throughout your exclusive time together that you wouldn't have approved of. Regardless of what her mental state is, she knows what's true and what isn't. If you find any cracks, or discover something that wasn't true, move on.

If you don't want to stay, make it a clean break. Don't punish her, what's done is done.

I will note one thing. As I said, I'm not big on R, however the fact that your WW has continued to come back after some difficulty in the W forum is a good sign. An even better sign, is that you are objective and have great insight into what's going on with her. I think those two things give you a better shot at R than average, but that's just my opinion.

LJO- Bottom line. She is refusing to take 100% responsibility for her actions. No qualifying statements. No excuses. She can say she does, but what you've shared seems to indicate otherwise.

It begs the question of why is she refusing to take the responsibility while clearly putting in a lot of effort to salvage the M. She is in IC and I fear she may have a whole lot of things that will come up in IC that she is not yet prepared to deal with that have little to do with you.

Just my .02. She is more afraid of dealing with her past than she is of losing her M. Right, wrong or indifferent we see that a lot on here.

Maybe she won't ever cross that bridge or maybe she will. I get the impression from things that you have shared that there are majorly painful things in her past that she is spending a lot of energy to hide from or avoid. No escaping from ourselves which is exactly what I think her addiction and acting out seems to indicate. She did not want another man in her life. She wanted to be someone else. Anyone else. That realization alone will probably break her.

It is not in any way an excuse for her choices.

She needs to deal with her past (prior to you). She does not want to admit that they are related, but it does not take Sigmund Freud to figure out that they most definitely are.

IC is so important right now. I'd bet money some significant FOO issues will come out and while it doesn't excuse it. It will help "explain" it.

Your choice is if you want to wait for something that may never come. She has to want to dig into that too. Nothing you can do can make her. Just like she can't make you stay M to her.

If she determines that the pain of losing you and her M is less than dealing with her past, I fear she may avoid the necessary steps to heal herself. Sacrificing her M in the process.

I hope I am wrong. Watch and pay attention to those things. It will help you make sense of this time in your life no matter what happens in your M.

I have a painful past and I think in some scenarios I would done anything rather than face it. It is just too repressed and too painful to talk about. Taught me how to compartmentalize and keep the focus away from myself. It sucks, hurts and can feel like a literal death, but there is a certain freedom about facing it. Making a stand to not let it take more of you than it already has is empowering.

LJO- From what you've shared here you sound like a very good guy with a really big heart. The only way you don't lose in this game is let this experience change your core values. Keep your integrity and yourself. Please be mindful that not everyones pain is related to their partner. Sometimes people were broken long before they meet their spouses.

You've got nothing but time. No need to rush things unless limbo is harder than walking away. Nobody would blame you in either scenario.