SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi, LJ.

Been following your thread... I'm amazed at the fantastic, life-giving advice you're getting here. Your SI brethren are marvelous.

I'll only add something about "secrets." I held off telling my adult children the truth; was too committed to protecting them (AND myself!)

Finally, my IC hit me with this... "Secrets beget shame. Keep them long enough, and the shame becomes you."

I decided then and there that I wasn't going to allow her actions to give me permanent shame! So, I told my kids.

And, oh my gosh! It was incredibly beneficial--even essential--to my recovery.

It's time to take care of YOU.

Blessings, LA

I don't take issue with any of y'alls advice to LJ to divorce - what concerns me is the reasons you're isolating to bolster your stance.

LJ:

- The majority of WS's profess their love for and to their AP's

- A lot back pedal like maniacs and throw AP under the bus and back over them when faced with losing their spouse

- Sex with the AP is offensive no matter where it occurs whether in the home, the family van, during the BS's labour or mastectomy or at the hotel they honeymooned at with their BS, it is all disrespectful. It's a kick in the nuts no matter where it occurs.

- waywards SHIT all over us during the affair in a gazillion different ways - yours, mine - all of them...there's nothing special about your WW - she is NOT any more heinous than any other wayward here

LJ - they call it the cheaters handbook for a reason...it's so predictable. If her affair is a dealbreaker then there's nothing wrong with divorcing her. You don't need these reasons that have been highlighted and defined as extraordinarily horrific...because they aren't. They're as horrific as the rest of them here and elsewhere.

From what I can tell, you don't need convincing of any decision. You're handling yourself well and you'll make the decision that's right for you when you are comfortable making that decision.

[This message edited by sassylee at 11:17 PM, August 13th (Sunday)]

livinganew: Thanks for the extra perspective on secrets. I have a feeling it's going to come up during my IC session on Friday, so we'll see if I start living my life differently. Part of the thing is that I've never been a "open up and bear my soul" kind of guy... which, if you remember, is part of the reason my WW decide to seek out dick from some other dude. (I don't blame myself, but just understand that this whole experience is difficult for me.)

sassylee: I feel my WW should buy you lunch sometime for how much you stick up for her in this thread. Lord knows she could use somebody who's willing to be seen in public with her right now, and that ain't me.

Luxuryjello - I'm not sticking up for your wife. I detest waywards as much as any BS. I just don't think you need bullshit reasons for divorcing her. You have a very legitimate reason...she cheated on you!

If you want to reconcile - certain things should be in place. I havent shared those because i dont think you want to reconcile and I haven't seen evidence from your wife that she has earned reconciliation.

I dont know if your wife is worthy of a second chance. It doesn't matter. This thread is not just for you. Other BS's read here as well. If they hear "your ws truly loves AP" it will affect their decisions as well.

Your wife has shit on you...just like all of our cheating partners have. I'm just shocked at the weight certain details are being given by experienced and seasoned BS's.

My point is - all of our wayward spouses are monsters. Your wayward isn't the any worse than any other...sadly, I'd bet she's rather typical. R is hard and if its not for you - and you know that - then don't entertain it. If divorce is your best way out of infidelity - then take it. But you don't need to do it because your wife is the worst example of a wayward the collective brothers-in-arms here have ever seen. That doesn't mean I'm suggesting your reconcile.

The reason why is being mentioned, and to use your example, is that even Walloped's wife said she did love her AP. In this instance the narrative is that magically many convenient factors fell into line the instant it became convenient to do so.

What the handful of us here are trying to do is say that in our collective experience it's overwhelming atypical for a wayward to 'find religion' in every aspect of the affair and are (strongly) recommending skepticism towards this instant change in behavior.

But to your point I agree it's like discussing how many angels fit on top of a pin. No matter how you slice it, even if she was some magical unicorn, some dude with only a handful of years legally sunk into the marriage, whose marriage wasn't a shining beacon of being awesome before, where no kids are involved, where the betrayal hit so completely deeply (picture every morning, giving LJ stupid bread that Douche made, bringing into house, etc).... whatever you get the point.... is not really a situation we (collectively) tend to see anything come of reconciliation efforts.

They say I'm even the best instance it can take 3-5 years to recover from this, and even then the marriage will still not be the same. For someone like Walloped the math was not the same. She had an affair for 3% of their marriage and it'll take 10% of their marriage to recover. This would be an affair for 33% of the marriage with a recovery time of more the marriage has even currently existed. Plus there are kids involved. Plus LuxJell has cleary stated his predisposition towards termination of the marriage. It all adds up to an advice set that is consistent with the situation.

I pretty much agree with sassylee. Maybe it's just me but I think we should give our advice about when we think a WS isn't telling the truth, isn't indicating true remorse, v. regret, and things like that. I don't think we should say, you should get a divorce, or you should reconcile. That's pretty much up to them. I've seen cases where people reconciled when I probably wouldn't have and cases where they divorced with things I thought maybe they should have reconciled. Think about Wifehad5. Literally, his wife had 5. And yet he's happy. I get most frustrated with BHs who have unremorseful wives and yet all they can do is plead and beg for their wife to change. After a while, I can't even post on their threads.

So the key for me is, not necessarily what the WS has done, although there are times where I think that is very important, such as when she gets pregnant from her AP, but is she remorseful. If I think he/she's remorseful, then I leave it up to the BS to decide what to do. I don't say, oh my GAWD!!! your wife has done the worst things ever. You have to divorce her or you have no self respect. Frankly, I think that attitude is pretty immature. In any event, it's up to the BS to decide what they want. And truthfully, it's up to the WS to decide what they want as well. The WS can be a total POS and decide to divorce a BS that wants to reconcile. People can do what they want.

anyway... my two cents. with another couple of dollars, you can get coffee with it.

This has been one hell of a thread and to some degree, has been made overly complicated for no real reasons.

I think it is important that you see this for what it is:

Your wife was never into you as much as she was into OM - she knew him from before and the "sex was the best she ever had" and she says that is lacking in you. She even says she told you this when you two met up. She still feels that way. This alone would be enough to make me file for divorce.

You two had arguments (like most couples do) and she used that and the fact that he was in contact again to go back and get some more "loving" from him with every justification she could muster. She didn't care enough for you or her family to curb her lust.

She is easily one of the more disrespectful lying cheaters around - no condoms, sending selfies first thing so that he had power over you, etc etc. This is not the kind of person you reconcile with.

She still justifies her affair - it is as clear as daylight to anyone that is not pussyfooting around the fact.

She was upset that he was fvcking other women too (and also while barebacking it with her) but not upset enough to end the affair.

WHY ON EARTH ARE YOU EVEN ENTERTAINING ANYTHING BUT A DIVORCE HERE?!?!?!? This is not a complex affair or anything like that - it is very cut and dry!

Manfromlamancha - I think you've mistaken who LJ's wife is - that woman is much more heinous than LJ's wife CantEatCantSleep. (As long as we're comparing)...

(You see - now CECS is catching shit for some other waywards gross comments - lol)

Your wife was never into you as much as she was into OM - she knew him from before and the "sex was the best she ever had" and she says that is lacking in you. She even says she told you this when you two met up. She still feels that way. This alone would be enough to make me file for divorce.

You two had arguments (like most couples do) and she used that and the fact that he was in contact again to go back and get some more "loving" from him with every justification she could muster. She didn't care enough for you or her family to curb her lust.

Hey unless there's some new info that I'm not privy to, I think you have her a little mixed up. WW did not know the man from before me, nor did she tell me it was the best sex she ever had (is she saying that in her thread?). And I'm not sure what you're talking about in that second paragraph.

No LJ - there's a new WW posting about her affair with an ex boyfriend. It's a case of mistaken identity.

no, manoflamancha got the wrong person.

without revealing too much, your wife has been pretty sincere and is trying pretty hard. She's still confused on how to be, how to own her behavior without excuses, but she knows she's got work to do and is trying.

reconciling or divorcing will be up to you.

I would again stress....For people here to keep what his wife is or is not saying out of the conversation and visa versa...

This spot is for LuxuryJellO. It gets confusing really fast to try and drag other stuff into it. Lets try to just stick to helping Lux in his area here...

Here's the rub: There's a huge difference in seeking R for morality's sake versus genuine love.

Many waywards truly believe they love BSs, but they actually love OP more. They seek R, no matter the difficulty, because they can't picture themselves as cheaters. Too devastating to their self-image.

How to determine true love? Only the BS can determine.

Just want LJ to look at all angles.

[This message edited by MidnightRun at 4:40 PM, August 14th (Monday)]

She's still confused on how to be, how to own her behavior without excuses

Yup that definitely sounds like her.

Example: A few weeks ago, WW sent me a set of voicemails she found saved on her phone. These were audio recordings she had sent to AP just before DDay. She asked if I wanted to hear them, and I said yes. So, she emailed me the files, along with a 600+ word essay (that I didn't ask for) in which she tried to explain her state of mind when recording these... how she was really projecting hew own insecurities, how she only said "I love you" not because she meant it, but because she was "trying to convince herself," etc etc.

It was classic WW: Refusing to take responsibility for her own words and minimizing her actions with excuses.

Days later, I angrily pointed out to her how not-helpful those wishy-washy excuses are. Then, a few days after that, she phoned me to say I was right. And she promised to, from now on, accept her actions as the true judgement of her character and not try to minimize them with explanations, "no matter how true those explanations may be." And I was like, "WTF?! By adding that little qualifier, you just did it again!!"

It's mind-boggling. Even when she's *trying* to be good, and when she's *trying* to take responsibility, WW just cannot help herself in shifting blame.

Anyway, sorry for all that extra info. It's been brewing for a few days. Rant over.

[This message edited by LuxuryJellO at 4:18 PM, August 14th (Monday)]

That was helpful LJ - evidence of her blameshifting and your skill at detecting it. While she wants to demonstrate transparency and honesty, she screws it up by trying to minimize it and justify it.

You're handling this like a pro. I hope you stick around after the dust settles to help others find there way through.

And she promised to, from now on, accept her actions as the true judgement of her character and not try to minimize them with explanations, "no matter how true those explanations may be." And I was like, "WTF?! By adding that little qualifier, you just did it again!!"

It's the old self-protective "I didn't really mean it! It's not what it looks like!" spiel.

It is exactly what it looks like. Intent follows the bullet.

[This message edited by Forged1 at 5:02 PM, August 14th (Monday)]

I've read a couple times she was trying to convince herself. Could she tell a bigger lie? I take that back, she already has. She obviously enjoyed her time with the OM. She kept going back and she was thinking about him every morning when sending him a pic of herself. Good grief! Does she think that you're that much of an idiot that you're going to believe the "trying to convince myself" lie?

Do you really want to spend any more time on that woman child? She's so off her rocker that all I can see if you spend your future with her is pain and destruction. She's got the market on 'needy'. Please free yourself. And definitely don't have sex or brush up against her in any way that might get her even close to being pregnant. That would be child abuse.

And definitely don't have sex or brush up against her in any way that might get her even close to being pregnant. That would be child abuse.

oh shit lol!

I've read her wayward thread. It set off so many alarms for me I swore it off lest I get emotionally attached to a certain outcome, thus poisoning the validity and sincerity of my advice.