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There will be a threat of suicide from her here yet. And I would be very surprised if there weren't previous threats of that nature or she's not put hands on you at least once before and you didn't report it.

Gonna nip that in the bud. No, never threats or talk at all of suicide, and she was never, ever physically abusive toward me (and nor I to her, obv).

A few months ago,she actively cut again and you found out;that sent your co-dependant management mode into overdrive, to the point where you probably couldn't focus on much else except that.

That was calculated. That was premeditated. That was viciously exploitative and deflective. She knew EXACTLY what she was doing when she did that.

Sorry just saw this edit. She actually kept the most recent cut a secret from me. I found out about it from one of the letters written to her from the OM. He wrote:

"You cut yourself and you showed me. I fell more in love with you this day."

So, from the context of this letter, she seemed to have manipulated *someone* with this action. But it wasn't me, and were it not for this doofus' instinct to write down every detail of the affair and hand it to her, I would have never found out.

[This message edited by LuxuryJellO at 10:25 PM, August 12th (Saturday)]

I hope for your sake that you're telling the truth.

I've no more to say about what is or isn't happening at her end. Ultimately your choice to stay or go, but I would strongly and respectfully suggest that you exit right now.

Please look after yourself.

I'm not sure I've heard of cutting being referred to as an addiction. My daughter was a severe cutter and we sought CBT therapy when she was 16 to teach her more effective coping mechanisms. None of her therapists or psychiatrists treated her cutting as an addiction. My son started cutting last year and is in treatment now.

Both my kids suffer from OCD/anxiety and they cut to alleviate their anxiety. It's horrifying as a parent. We also have many members who've dealt with this in their past and cut again in the aftermath of their dday.

I'm glad you clarified the addiction issue.

I'm not sure I've heard of cutting being referred to as an addiction.

Yeah she's called it an addiction before but I'm not sure if it's actually considered one in a clinical sense. I was trying to be polite by not sharing her dirty laundry, but actually made a bigger mess than I intended by allowing everyone to jump to different conclusions.

I hope your kids both learn to cope with their cutting problems ok.

I just stumbled across your WW's thread, and her emotional incongruity is startling.

How can she profess such deep and binding love for the OM, then instantly--and miraculously--flip the script once the affair was discovered?

Her feelings for OM were no sanguine, simplistic "I Love Yous". She expressed a valley-deep commitment.

Now she says she's willing to walk over hot coals to keep you.

Either she's schizoid or a prize-winning liar.

[This message edited by MidnightRun at 1:55 AM, August 13th (Sunday)]

Everything is very off here. I contribute to hundreds of these threads a year and this is one of a handful where I'm genuinely a little scared for you. Perhaps not physically, but the abuse cycle that she has you in has not ended, that much I'm certain of.

Luxury, while she has never physically abused you, she HAS emotionally abused you with the A, the lies, the TT, the gaslighting, and she has also exploited your vulnerable state to convince you to go to MC and agree to allowing her time to continue to cover her own behind with talks of "temporary insanity" despite it being against your wishes. It's all extremely manipulative and I agree with Forged that you may be dealing with suicide attempts once it comes to light that you're thinking about D. She would not be the first who did not speak of suicide until it was clear that their BS was leaving. It's good that she is in IC but truthfully someone who cuts to cope, manipulates, and self destructs needs months, possibly years, of therapy to get to healthy partner status. She's no where close no matter how much she is learning now.

Whenever I speak to her on the phone, she talks about how valuable these sessions have been, how much better she now understands herself, and how she's really beginning to cope with accepting her actions. And it just makes me feel.... resentful. I kind of don't want her feeling better, you know? I want her to be in as much agony as I am! Eh, maybe I'm just being petty with that.

Nope! Not petty at all. It didn't need to take her murdering your marriage and stabbing you in the back for her to realize she was broken and needed serious help. At any point she could have talked to you and been honest about her relapses which were a very clear sign that she needed IC. Instead she chose the OM. For some people, the A is a deal breaker and if you feel angry and resentful about her healing instead of hopeful, that might be the case for you. Would you say she's sympathetic to your pain or does she gloss over it too?

Double posted.

[This message edited by MidnightRun at 9:21 AM, August 13th (Sunday)]

Dday often "flips the script" for the WS. I'm surprised that this is surprising so many vets on this thread.

"How can she write that she loves the AP but suddenly change once it comes to light?"

This is why we tell newbies to expose!!! Because this is exactly what happens!!!

We all agree that affairs are fantasy. They are not real. You shine light on that little pocket of unicorn farts and pop goes the bubble. This is NOT a sign of suspicion - this is NORMAL. Especially if they never really intended on leaving the BS. When reality meets fantasy - they are filled with shame and regret. They are embarrassed by their actions - because through the eyes of someone they care about - it IS embarassing.

I just don't see this as the smoking gun everyone is alluding to. This has happened to most reconciling couples here.

[This message edited by sassylee at 9:19 AM, August 13th (Sunday)]

Her fantasy was extreme, to say the least.

At any point she could have talked to you and been honest about her relapses which were a very clear sign that she needed IC. Instead she chose the OM. For some people, the A is a deal breaker and if you feel angry and resentful about her healing instead of hopeful, that might be the case for you. Would you say she's sympathetic to your pain or does she gloss over it too?

You're right about how she could have talked to me. I confronted her about her most recent cutting episode last night (the one that occurred a few months ago). I asked why she shared it with OM and not with me. She said it was because she knew I would demand she go to IC, which is true. I would have. But instead, she used it to show off to her AP. She really, truly is a broken human being.

When you ask if she's sympathetic to my pain... I think she is? Thing is, I don't really talk to her much about how this is affecting me. And I don't let her see me cry. But she's the one who pushed me to go to IC. And I think she does feel a good deal of guilt.

LJ, sometimes it's easier to see things clearer (and give advice) when it happens to someone else. So with that in mind, I want you to close your eyes, and try to imagine that everything that you have gone through never happened.

Let's pretend a good friend has come to you and has told you the following has happened to them (or this happened to me):

I found out my wife was in a long term affair.

She never confessed this....someone tipped me off.

When I came to my wife to find out if this was true she flat out denied it (even though I had proof).

When I started to press her she started to TT me.

Despite being caught with her hand in the cookie jar she continued to lie over and over and again.

Even though she saw how much pain I was in and what this was doing to me she continued to lie.

Slowly the truth started to come out and instead of just owning it she made excuse after excuse as to why it happened.

I found out that my wife not only had sex with this OM, but I also found out that she brought this man to my home while I was away.

In doing so, she obviously didn't care about what the neighbors thought about this (seeing his car in my driveway) and that she had so little respect for me and what these people would be saying/thinking about me behind my back. That I was being played the FOOL by my OWN WIFE and everyone was in on this except me.

I also found out that when she brought OM to my home she turned off the security camera before he arrived. Despite knowing this she still claims that her intent wasn't to hide having sex with this OM it was just that I might be mad that she had OM in my house to begin with while I was away.

I also found out that every single day, for an ENTIRE YEAR, she would take a picture of herself in the bathroom at the beginning of the day and she would send it to him. Again she did this EVERY SINGLE DAY FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR!!!

My wife also had a box of love letters she kept from OM tucked away in her closet that she was keeping.

I could go on and on and on LJ of how my wife has betrayed me.

I'm trying to decide how to move forward with my life and whether or not my wife should be a part of it? SO many lies and to be honest with you any relationship requires a lot of work in order to work, but the one thing I don't want to be moving forward is a detective (especially with THE one person I should trust with everything as well as my heart and soul).

So with that said LJ I am coming to you for your advice on all of this, and to ask you if you were me how would you handle this?

Try to cut the wheat from the chaff and ask yourself, Can I comfortably spend the rest of my life with WW, even after myriad counseling and self-reflection on her part?

If not, head for the hills.

[This message edited by MidnightRun at 11:14 AM, August 13th (Sunday)]

luxjell- I have to tell you, despite everything, it's not completely clear to me what you should do. It becomes clearer when you reiterate that this is a dealbreaker for you, and when you give all the reasons why you can't imagine how you can ever get over this. If it's a dealbreaker, it's a dealbreaker. If you know you can't get over it, then don't. If that is the case, I would divorce as nicely and humanely as possible. Don't seek out vengeance and anger. Simply state that you know you can't get over it, and be done.

On the other hand, it's clear to me that she wants to stay married and fix herself. So, you have that option.

That being said, she seems like a very needy person. I think the reason she did what she did is because she craved affirmation. And she needed it more than she needed to be loyal to you. She was filling a hole in a leaky bucket.

If you stay, POSOM will be gone. But I think that if you divorce, there is a fair to middling chance she will at least temporarily end up with him. Why? His wife has left him. From what she has said, he's a narcissist and can't believe that she wouldn't choose him. So he will pursue. And your wife? She's still broken. she's still needy. I think she would most likely hook up with him because she will think, at least he loves me. And she desperately needs affirmation. What this means is that the narrative in your head might be, POSOM saw my wife, wanted her, and took her from me. What she does after divorce shouldn't concern you, but I think you will need to be prepared for her running off with him, despite her protestations. In this case, the lady doth protest too much, really rings true to me.

But now I'm going to say something that is just my opinion and will probably get loud disagreements from a whole bunch of folks. If you're not going to have kids, what's the point of getting married? Personally, if I didn't want kids, I don't think I would have married. What's the point? Share assets? I've always made a pretty good income, why should I share it with someone else? Now, I realize some people can't have kids, and I realize some people don't agree with me (although, how can anyone not agree with me? :) ). I'm not trying to diminish anyone's marriage. I respect people trying to add legitimacy and constancy, or whatever, through marriage. I'm just giving my opinion. So... to the point. Why not simply divorce her. And if you still want to stay with her. Go ahead and stay. Give it a chance that way. After all, the two of you don't want kids.

anyway... just a suggestion. I think she's a broken person. But I don't think she has to be broken. I think she can become better.

I wish you the best my friend. good luck

Sorry - lol - but when you shorten OP's name to LUXJELL - it sounds like a high-end lube - for the discerning couple...

I agree with Mike and Midnight. It would be good to consider if you could get over this even if she was doing everything right. I have been here a while and people who say they think it's a deal breaker repeatedly after DDay almost always get a D even years later after trying R. Your WW may genuinely be sorry and ready to work on herself but that doesn't mean that you should be stuck in hell to help her through it. It's a big gamble.

sassylee

Dday often "flips the script" for the WS. I'm surprised that this is surprising so many vets on this thread.

"How can she write that she loves the AP but suddenly change once it comes to light?"

This is why we tell newbies to expose!!! Because this is exactly what happens!!!

We all agree that affairs are fantasy. They are not real. You shine light on that little pocket of unicorn farts and pop goes the bubble. This is NOT a sign of suspicion - this is NORMAL. Especially if they never really intended on leaving the BS. When reality meets fantasy - they are filled with shame and regret. They are embarrassed by their actions - because through the eyes of someone they care about - it IS embarassing.

I just don't see this as the smoking gun everyone is alluding to. This has happened to most reconciling couples here.

Again a great point by sassylee.

I do find it concerning that so many BS's on this site seem determined not to understand the nature of 'love' in an affair and continue to contend that if she 'loved' the OM, how could she now have no interest in him and profess love for her husband.

There is a strong possibility that the shock of DD took her out of the fog abruptly. It seems to me that you would be criticising her if she was still pining for the OM. She can't seem to win either way.

Walloped's wife 'loved' her OM until she realised what a POS he was. Does that mean that Walloped was wrong to reconcile? His wife did many things as bad as this WW, including admitting that she would have invited him into the marital home if he had asked; admitting that she was 'in love' with OM; organising her day around their trysts; giving him a very expensive gift; allowing anal sex when she and Walloped had decided it wasn't for them; walking with the OM holding hands in public; sitting naked with OM in his apartment exchanging pleasantries between sexual bouts; taking 90 minutes to talk on the phone to finish with OM; talking to OM on the phone on numerous occasions for the next several days immediately after DD; then braking NC well after DD. She seems to now be the perfect remorseful wife. Reconciliation would not have have stood a chance based on your advice to this BH.

I am not saying JellO should reconcile by any means but he is now out of infidelity and the urgency to act decisively no longer applies. Please give him the space and time to make his own decisions and show some respect for the efforts his WW is making, even though they may be flawed at this point in time. How many WWs get it straightaway? Very few, if none, and you know that only too well.

Walloped was married for 25 years and had 4 kids. Had his wife had the affair for 10 years (33% of the marriage) and they had no kids, I would have personally driven to NY or wherever he lives and kicked him in the neck.

Walloped was married for 25 years and had 4 kids. Had his wife had the affair for 10 years (33% of the marriage) and they had no kids, I would have personally driven to NY or wherever he lives and kicked him in the neck.

lol