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The poly is still on, just not scheduled.

I don't want to push you on this, because I'm not exactly a great spokesman for moving with action. But I did want to let you know that it was surprisingly easy to get the poly appointment set up and talk to the examiner. It took all of about 30 minutes.

Sooner rather than later is the best approach here. She may very well try to weasel out of it if you wait too long, or she's hoping you'll avoid it because you're both afraid.

Try to get the poly scheduled in a tight window, so you're not stretching out the anxiety for both of you waiting for the date. I had to schedule mine for next Monday, and I've been doing an agonizing dance with my WW since then.

On the STD test, keep in mind there are clinics near you where she can be more anonymous without having to ask her own physician. That cuts down a bit, not much, on the shame factor.

I only just asked her for the written timeline.

Just make sure this isn't perfunctory on her part. They will have a tendency to write the barest of outlines because of their shame. They have to do better and do more work than that. I have a list of questions she should answer if you PM me.

[This message edited by Thumos at 6:07 PM, December 18th (Wednesday)]

Just finished reading "Not Just Friends". This book really has been the most helpful advice out of everything. There are lots of lessons and tools in the book for making sense of things, setting boundaries, and enforcing reasonable demands for change. With additional details I'm inclined to believe my wife has told me everything. She has been very forthcoming with details, even painful ones. I'd say I'm almost 80% sure they didn't progress to kissing (not for want of my wife trying to progress further), however if I am being lied to about that the other 20% would say they definitely had sex. She has given me open access to everything and she has given explicit gps permission for tracking her phone. She is looking for a new job, in the meantime we are following the "if they must still work together" advice in the book where she will avoid any face to face contact by having her not go to the office he works at, only talk business, and report all business related contact back to me. She seems genuinely remorseful and I'm hopeful the reconciliation can be made over time.

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[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 7:08 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

Good first steps. You know as long as the6 work together there is always the opportunity for the A to progress. Be vigilant. Can you handle the doubt and stress knowing they have work contact? It’s your life. You decide. Take care of you. Keep on, keepin on.

In a weird way the whole "going underground" profound lying ability etc. give a sort of base level distrust I can't go below. So if she wanted to secretly progress she could. If I find out, we are getting a divorce. If she does it in this environment, we are getting a divorce. Whatever slack I'm giving her is simply enough rope to hang herself with if she chooses or can be an opportunity to prove her honesty and renewed commitment. Having seriously had divorce on the table means I've gotten over my initial fear on the matter.

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[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 7:09 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

I have reread this thread and noted the areas in which uncertainties in her actions and disclosures arise to me. I suggest that using the polygraph to reduce, hopefully eliminate, those uncertainties provides the most benefit to your marriage. I suggest the following questions for your consideration:

1. Have you disclosed, in full and complete detail, all events during which you had contact with OM and had any physical contact whatsoever?

2. Have you gone beyond "hand holding" with any man other than This0is0Fine since you and This0is0Fine have been together.

3. Did you ever have any thoughts about leaving This0is0Fine for OM or any other man?

4. Do you still have any "feelings" for OM?

You might also consider the following matters during counseling or other discussion:

Where would this relationship have gone if This0is0Fine had not discovered the affair and confronted you, especially since she continued the affair after the initial confrontation (1000 texts, holiday party, unable to decide)?

Why does WW believe that she can now be a safe, faithful partner, especially since she has admitted that she was the initiator during the affair?

I am also sending you best wishes for the holiday season and my hope that you are successful in reconciliation, if that is what you choose, or your complete recovery.

I know she still has feelings for OM, she has admitted as much. It will take time to get over it.

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[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 7:09 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

It will take a long time for both of you to recover from the affair. She has to realize that she inflicted the pain to both of you. She has a lot of work ahead of her to help you recover. You have to decide that the potential that the relationship has for the future is worth accepting what can not be undone, but can be forgiven.

I wish you hope and future joy. I hope that this holiday season is a good re-beginning.

I can't remember if you got the book "How To Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair" by Linda J. McDonald. If you have then great. If not I'm recommending you do. It's a very easy read - short and to the point. It's a good book for you to, This0is. It will show you what a remorseful spouse looks and sounds like. Action speaks louder than words.

She still has feelings for the OM? Too bad. Get over them or get out.

She still has feelings for the OM? Too bad. Get over them or get out.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Real Quick Like!

The problem with the measures you’ve taken is she is aware of what you are doing to monitor her, therefore easy to get around them.

We already read the How to Heal book by McDonald. Honestly not as useful as the other book.

As for how far she would have gone, seems like the whole way. But the OM rejected going physical. This is by far the hardest thing for me to visualize and think about moving forward.

FWIW on dday1 my H ended the EA but still had feelings for the OW. I watched him mope around for months b/c I forced him to end the affair.

At dday2 (same OW) I didn’t give him a chance b/c after I found out about false reconciliation I told him I was divorcing him and he had to leave our home.

Funny how all feelings for the OW died immediately. She was dropped like a ton of bricks. When she tried to maintain contact he never responded.

When the cheater decides to put the marriage first it is funny how fast any feelings towards the AP disappear.

This0is0Fine,

Your WW still has feelings for the OM. She is pining for him. That is, she feels very sad because she misses being with him. That may be understandable, yet obviously still very hurtful to you. Does she know that? Is that knowledge included in her remorse?

I would propose that she is not (hopefully, yet) suitably remorseful for you to offer your gift of reconciliation. She needs to be 100% committed to your marriage. There can be no percentage of her heart left to accommodate her feelings for OM. She needs to understand that, until she can commit 100%, you should not (or can not) make your choice between D or R. Otherwise, you are putting yourself in for 100% before she does. She would be handicapping the reconciliation with this baggage. The commitment must be totally mutual. I think that you certainly can get to R, if that is what you decide, when she no longer has feelings for OM and can commit totally, now and forever, to your marriage. Then you can be on the road to reconciliation, recovery and forgiveness; but not until then. She needs to understand those terms so that there is no doubt in her mind that you can not have her parceling out any proportion of her feelings to another man.

I understand from previous comments from other WWs that it may take time for all remnants of feelings to fade away, or to get passed the "fog". Hopefully that will not take too long to save your marriage. However, she should understand that she is continuing to damage the marriage and that her time to pine is finite. Only you will determine when that time runs out. She should not keep you in suspense for an indefinite, or unreasonably long, time. She would be digging the hole too deep for her to fill in to help your recovery. You can take divorce off the table when she can convince you that she has 0% of her heart reserved for OM. Note that you are demanding or forcing nothing from her. You are just telling her the facts of the matter. You can tell her what your hopes are, but without committing yourself until she does.

These are just my thoughts about your situation and are only suggestions. Of course, you know best if these comments are helpful since you are there, present, and involved on the ground.

I am so sorry that you are in this situation. I hope for the best for you.

I would propose that she is not (hopefully, yet) suitably remorseful for you to offer your gift of reconciliation. She needs to be 100% committed to your marriage. There can be no percentage of her heart left to accommodate her feelings for OM. She needs to understand that, until she can commit 100%, you should not (or can not) make your choice between D or R. Otherwise, you are putting yourself in for 100% before she does.

Perfectly stated. You don't have to offer anything upfront.

It takes 2 fully committed to R. If she's not committed/remourseful you stand a higher chance of getting a repeat. You don't want to go through this again.

[This message edited by Marz at 1:45 PM, December 25th (Wednesday)]

I'm sorry you're here ...especially during the holidays.

It's positive that she is willing to look for another job. However, know that affairs involve an addictive component and she is a high risk to slip and make contact again.

Therefore, insist on a timeline subject to a polygraph test.

Does she know that? Is that knowledge included in her remorse?

Yes. We talked about it and she is remorseful but still misses him. She is at least seemingly committed to being completely honest about her emotions because she knew it would hurt for me, and that it would be more reassuring if she had no more feelings toward him. She chose honesty over rug sweeping by my estimation.

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[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 7:09 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

This0is0Fine,

Her being completely honest and not rugsweeping is positive. However, remorse is her feeling your pain when you are hurting. It is her having empathy for you. I also think that it implies that she feels the same level of your pain, not just have a concept or hint. While she is still in the "fog" and having feelings for OM, she may regret that you are continually being hurt, but I am not sure that her empathy rises to the level of remorse.

Your wife did not end the affair. The OM supposedly rebuffed her instigations and, ultimately he (and she) threw her(self) under the bus to protect him as he chose to reconcile with his wife and go NC with your wife. You report that she is remorseful, and wants to reconcile. But while she still has feelings for OM, it seems like you only have a "half-hearted"javascript:AddSmily(' ') attempt from her.

I understand that you certainly are empathetic to her feelings about OM, at the cost of significant heartache to you. Does she really return the empathy?

You are a fine, honorable man who is in love with his WW. I hope that she feels that "whole-heartedly" soon, realizes that she currently shares her heart with OM unrequited, and is wrecking her marriage. Then she may earn your gift of reconciliation.

Again, my best hope for your happiness.

[This message edited by PassThis at 10:26 PM, December 25th (Wednesday)]

If your wife still has feelings for OM then she is not a candidate for R and is clinging to the affair.

You say she would have had sex with OM if he had accepted her advances? That is something that would be hard to forgive. Being in love with OM would be even harder.

What do you get if you R? A wife who cheated emotionally, then took it underground, and by her own admission is in love with OM and would have had sex given the opportunity.

Yes, I understand that there are disadvantages to reconciling. I did the exercise of what I pictured life like in five years if we R vs if we D. I like the R picture more even knowing I'm getting someone that has caused me pain and is less than perfect.

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[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 7:09 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

Honestly, I don't think that's a great thought experiment because you don't really know what R is like. No BS does until they experience it. You're assuming that everything will be healed and wrapped up little bow and that infidelity will be a rough patch you closed the chapter on. It's not like that at all. In fact, you probably won't even feel fully healed at 5 years in and will still be thinking about it a little most days. And this is assuming your WS turns into a model candidate for R tomorrow and doesn't give you any TT or further DDays because each time it happens, the clock is reset.

Until she stops having feelings, R cannot begin. Remorse cannot happen while she still has feelings for him and without it, R cannot begin. That doesn't mean you should run out and file for D or that you're wrong for waiting but you have to accept that the chances are still high that you will not make it through R as of right now because of her feelings for him. The chances are still high that your WW will restart some form of A with OM because of her feelings for him. That's the reality of the situation. So focus on you. Get an IC. Don't focus on her and R right now until you are absolutely sure she is over him, he is completely out of the picture, and she is willing to do anything and everything for R. Then R can begin.

This0is0Fine,

A year or two after trying to R, I found out my (now X) WW was sending messages to her AP through ICQ (an ancestor of messenger), telling him how much she missed him etc...

I do not wish that upon you. Follow the advice of the good people of SI who went through the same thing as you. Don’t do R while your WW is still having feelings for the OM.

I wish you the best.