SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Yes, I certainly ought to stop putting anything into our joint account

Immediately!

Take ALL of your money out of all joint accounts and put it in your own bank account. Right now.

She wants to live single but enjoy the perks of being married like hubby's paycheck, forget about it. She can start her own little savings account for once.

The OM can start paying her way. Affairs are so easy and once an affair becomes too much like real life, the affair usually crumbles. Or sometimes they are made for each other.

But I really don't think you can make another person do something. She will only change when she wants to and or needs to.

Old comfy slippers. First thing is your money is now YOUR money, not yours and hers. Then it wont be so comfy for her.

Saveus:

I think there is still too much act-react going on.

Don’t threaten – just tell things the way they are.

At the moment it’s a bit like you are telling her that she’s free to see OM but not as your wife and then daring her to leave. Right now your sole goal should be getting out of infidelity, not stopping infidelity. Get out and her ongoing infidelity won’t impact you anymore. MAYBE she will leave infidelity with you and thereby ending her affair. But right now her not seeing OM is like a drunk moaning at the window of a closed liqueur store.

It’s a lot like if you have to make a hard and long journey that she refuse to go along with you on. You can repeatedly ask her to come, you can buy her a ticket, pack her bags… but eventually you have to leave her at the gate and board that plane. At the moment it’s more like you are trying to avoid that journey…

That journey is unavoidable…

So definitely see an attorney. Know your rights. Might not have to file tomorrow but be very clear on the laws in the UK. What can you expect and will the possible outcome be.

Don’t argue over who sleeps in the couch or who moves out. Simply start an open conversation about how you two will progress with your living arrangements since her decision to remain in infidelity makes the marriage unretainable. (This is where you need legal aid – is the house yours, in your name, marital property, bought with her/your inheritance, 50/50…).

Can you afford it on your wages without any financial support from her? Could she afford it on her wages? (If she´s a SAHM then advice her to start looking for a job b/c in the UK she won't be getting alimony).

How much value is on the house? How much debt? What would a couple of two-bedroom apartments cost in your neighborhood?

Would moving affect son’s school?

These issues friend are simply logical consequences of a spouse deciding to do something that leads to the termination of a marriage. It’s not revenge, it’s not done to pressure her out of the affair. It’s simply consequences.

What could stop your momentum?

Well… for now very little.

If your WW COMMITS verbally to the marriage then you set up your requirements (and in the beginning they should be rather few but powerful; no contact, accountability, the truth and a commitment to MC and IC). But you STILL keep on moving out of infidelity. You might slow down the divorce preparation phase but until YOU feel safe that she’s committed… you carry on.

Yep, once again, bigger^^^ has the right approach and perspective.

Thanks everyone. I won't reply individually just now, but know I've read all your comments and appreciate every one.

Today's been a bit of a trial. I took my boy to his club this morning and, sure enough, the OM was there. My blood was boiling this time (it's not the first time we've crossed paths, as most of you will know) but I kept my cool, even when he was conversing with my son - one thing I've not mentioned previously is the OM is an instructor at my son's club. The thought did occur to me that maybe the club wouldn't be best pleased if they knew he'd used his and my kid to get close to my WW - then again, that's as if my WW didn't play her part. She more than did.

My wife was at work while I was there - often I pick her up on the way but today she couldn't finish early. At least for once I knew where the two of them were (or rather that they weren't together).

I had to go outside after an hour or so of pent up frustration, get some fresh air and find someone to vent at. I chose my mother-in-law. I know, against the 180 'rules' but I have a brilliant relationship with my in-laws and couldn't call my own mother as she has a house full, making conversation difficult.

I was outside longer than intended and when I went back in, my boy had been upset as I been gone a while. I felt mortified - all the more so as the OM had obviously taken the opportunity to step in. I made it up with my son - he understood and I apologised. I had told him where I was - but he's 5... I was in the wrong, and I felt pretty bad.

On the way home my wife text saying something like, 'how did he get on?', meaning our DS. I didn't reply as he had actually won a trophy, and he wanted to surprise her. She then called demanding, 'why aren't you answering my texts?'. Seems she doesn't like being left in the dark at the moment, even for a few minutes.

When I got in, she told our son she wanted to talk to me (that's a first, I thought). Turns out the OM had text her to spill the beans about my bad parenting, embellishing the story to say I'd apparently gone outside to see some woman!!!!!! And, of course, my wife took this as Gospel. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Why the hell should my wife care, even if his lie were true?!?

So, we ended up in that conversation I said we wouldn't have today.

She repeated that she loves him, can't give either of us up, thinks now I have told my parents there's no way forward (!) and 'had' to see him today. Oh, and that old chestnut again (see a couple of Saturdays ago) - 'I think I'm going to stay out tonight' (she had a long-standing evening at the theatre planned with her mum).

She also made out again that today was the day she was going to go.

I put my foot down and made it quite clear what was going to happen if she so much as saw him today. Just like that other Saturday, she backed down and made a plan to come home by train after the play. Of course, last time, she found time to pop round the OM's for more sex, before coming home to me.

I let my mother-in-law know my wife now knew we had spoken - and filled her in on my WW's 'threats' to stay out all night.

So, here I find myself, home alone, wondering if my WW will somehow manage to be unfaithful to me again, despite the lack of a car this time and the tight timeframe between end of show and last train home. I'm sure it's quite possible.

Before you say it, I do KNOW she's with her mum and where she said she would be as I dropped her into the city to meet her, and saw her meet her mum with my own eyes.

Yes, more act and react (thanks, by the way, Bigger). I'm desperate to break this cycle too.

But before you point out the error of my ways/futility of talking to her AT ALL, please remember I AM seeing a solicitor on Monday morning, and plan on making the absolute most out of my free 30 minutes (your suggestions very welcome).

Hi saveus. I can't add anything that hasn't already been said many times above. Wanted you to know that I'll be thinking of you and your son this weekend.

Big thanks, yearsofpain25. Your kindness is truly appreciated.

But before you point out the error of my ways/futility of talking to her AT ALL, please remember I AM seeing a solicitor on Monday morning

The two aren't connected. No contact(talking) means no new hurts.

She repeated that she loves him

That had to hurt.

can't give either of us up

Don't continue to let her have that option.

Strength brother.

My blood was boiling this time (it's not the first time we've crossed paths, as most of you will know) but I kept my cool, even when he was conversing with my son - one thing I've not mentioned previously is the OM is an instructor at my son's club. The thought did occur to me that maybe the club wouldn't be best pleased if they knew he'd used his and my kid to get close to my WW - then again, that's as if my WW didn't play her part. She more than did.

Turns out the OM had text her to spill the beans about my bad parenting, embellishing the story to say I'd apparently gone outside to see some woman!!!!!!

One question for the solicitor: do you have a case for suing the club? At minimum, this would make it difficult for the club to continue to employ the OM.

So, if threats have to be made to prevent your wife from spending the night out with someone she "loves"... this isn't a question of waiting and hoping for her to make a choice. This is more that a very definite choice has been made, and it's time to plan your life as if she will no longer play a role.

What do your in-laws say about this? Surely they recognize that their daughter has no interest in being married.

I'm seriously starting to 'dislike' this OM every day.

He is in a position of trust working with children. Report him / make a written complaint for his lies and knock him if his god damn pedestal.

she loves him

We both have appointments on Monday with solicitors. We will get advice on finances, property, and custody. The three big ones. I'm sure the experienced guys on this site will give a more detailed list. We will protect ourselves from our destructive WSs and their fantasy worlds.

Feel free to call me on any of the above if I don't get my 'bitch boots' on (thank you again yop - I'm literally going to put on my fav boots on Monday) and do what I need to do to say "I won't take this crap anymore."

Thanks 5454real. And yes, it did hurt. But I kept cool.

@Red Sox Nation: The club is well run but volunteer-driven. No salaries etc. It also may be on the brink of extinction anyway (long story that I can't really concentrate on right now). That said, I'd like nothing more than to see him out. I've added it to my list of questions for the solicitor.

Yes, I can't disagree it seems my WW's mind is made up - she just wants to hang on to me/our life together at the same time.

As for my in-laws, they are devastated and know how difficult their daughter can be (hence why she often acts like I can do no wrong in their eyes, but she certainly can - the old 'I'm a disappointment' argument again). Her mum told me some time ago how upset they were that I'd been betrayed, and that they felt betrayed too. Of course her mum this morning understood what I was saying, that my WW is not 'in' this marriage any longer. I told her of my frustrations, that her daughter doesn't appreciate how close to the end of my tether I am. My mother-in-law doesn't want our family to break up but even she has told me that at some point I have to put MYSELF first. She asked me the very first time we spoke, 'but what is [WW] giving back to YOU???'. She gets it and feels powerless.

@CantSeeInTheDark: I'd like nothing more than to knock the OM off his pedestal. I can't believe my wife (an intelligent, highly driven, self-sufficient woman) takes whatever he says as The Truth. Unbelievable, and shows how far she's fallen...

What time is your appointment on Monday? I look forward to comparing notes. Good luck!

Not til 3pm. U? Good luck to you too, and yes, defiantly up for comparing notes!!

Thanks. 11am for me.

I put my foot down and made it quite clear what was going to happen if she so much as saw him today.

No you haven’t. These are now meaningless words. Stop talking to her in this way. Go back to the posts and threads we have pointed you to and READ THEM. Your way of trying to reason with your WW is utterly pointless. She will view you as weak and (dare I say it) rather pathetic. You have done your best to open her eyes, but you cannot force someone who refuses to see. The ONLY way is to go, step by step, down Divorce Road. As I said before, the process can be halted at any time, but that is down to her now. She has MADE her choice and it’s NOT YOU. It’s her. It’s what SHE wants. When she whines and complains or says she is doing her best or that she loves you both and doesn’t know what to do, the only reply should be “I’m sorry you feel that way, but this is of your own making.” Do NOT engage. DISengage.

Once again:

Don’t

Even

Try

And

Change

Her

But before you point out the error of my ways/futility of talking to her AT ALL, please remember I AM seeing a solicitor on Monday morning, and plan on making the absolute most out of my free 30 minutes (your suggestions very welcome).

See my and other previous posts, talk to friends who have been divorced, ring your solicitor first thing Monday morning and ask what you should bring, read the gov.uk website. Take figures, paperwork and a notebook and pen.

Finally, ask your solicitor if there is a case against the OM since he is in a position of being in contact with your child. I see absolutely no reason why you shouldn’t split this wide open and tell the club authority of this man’s activities and make a formal complaint. If your son is to continue there, the OM shouldn’t be there on those nights. Or you take your son to another club. There is no way I would tolerate such a situation.

Please breathe and take ten seconds before responding in any way to your WW. And then reconsider. And get her out of the bedroom. She thinks that if you are sleeping together then everything is fine. Your solicitor may question it too.

Spend tomorrow (Sunday) getting stuff together.

Please listen saveus. This really is the only way.

Saveus,

I just got caught up on your story here and I'm seriously angry for you. I'm not going to sit and tell you what to do because you've already had plenty of that and its sound advice.

Its easy for someone to give advice but until they've walked in your shoes the advice is shit. Everyone here has given you there honest advice backed by experience and it is sound.

I read from the beginning to the end and saw you growing stronger by the page. Keep it up and take back your life for you and your son. If your wife wants any part of it then so be it but don't back down and stick to your guns. By the way the OM shouldn't even be speaking to your son and I'd remove him from the club and report his sorry ass to his employer. I'd do a lot more than just that but that's me. He'd be looking at the world through two swollen eyes the next time he tried talking to my boy. He's using your son as another avenue to be with your wife. Fuck him for that. Save every picture you have of him sending pics to your wife and send them to the club. I'll bet he'll be finding a new job.

I'm glad to see you put your pants on. Now lay that hammer down. Best of luck to you brother.

Saveus - friend, you need to wake up. what you're doing is wrong. it isn't working. We've told you this. You've tried your way.

Ukgirl is right. your wife is thinking you look weak and pathetic. like a little kid stamping your foot about her not staying out. Do you think she's attracted to this? Do you think she respects you? at all?

she just TOLD you that she loves him and isn't giving him up.

Friend - there is nothing you can do but go nuclear. NOTHING!

File for divorce. Not only is it the only thing that will save you any self respect, but it's the only thing that has a chance of waking her up and saving your marriage. You acting without self-respect isn't attractive. You being unable to stop this, is unattractive. Meanwhile the Coach, is banging her and laughing at you. are you happy with this? Where is your anger? You're being treated like an insignificant toy. You're not being treated like a man. You're not even being treated like someone she cares about. Sitting and hoping that things will get better is not the path. The only path now is action.

File for divorce! For you. for your son.

Wake her the fuck up. And if she doesn't wake up, replace her with someone that treats you like you're worth something.

[This message edited by mike7 at 9:32 PM, May 10th (Saturday)]

she just TOLD you that she loves him and isn't giving him up.

Friend - there is nothing you can do but go nuclear. NOTHING!

Saveus, you know I and everyone have travelled the hard path you are on. I know you love your wife, even through your shock and resentment. The attachment is very deep and excruciating to extricate yourself.

If you are like I was, you might be feeling that if you file for divorce, you will never get her back. It will just close the door for good. I felt this way. I clung to this for eight months like a dying man clutching at a straw. I was terrified I would REALLY lose her. I felt pathetic and weak when I recognized this thought, even if it was only a distant thought. I remember batting it away and making excuses that kept me hanging on.

As everyone told me at the time: she is already gone. Now the best you can do is gather your strength, hold your head high, and move forward through the pain. If she wants you back she will move heaven and earth. You will know it. But do not file as a way to win her back. Do it for you and for your son.

You will get through this. You really will.

Strength.

Turns out the OM had text her to spill the beans about my bad parenting, embellishing the story to say I'd apparently gone outside to see some woman!!!!!! 

Saveus, the OM just proved to you how he has been manipulating your WW. He lies. He manipulates. The only defense you have against this is to be authentic and consistent. Your WW is a completely under this OM's spell. There is no trying to reason with her.

Hi everyone, thanks as ever...

Feel in crisis again. Don't want to feel panic-stricken, but I do. I've managed to view the latest message conversations on my WW's iPhone. Suffice to say, you've all been right (as I knew in my heart of hearts).

Most worryingly though is this from my wife to the OM at 9pm last night (so presumably in the intermission at the theatre):-

I'm going to sort this! Tomorrow! I will tell him I am leaving!! Ok?! You have to be certain?!!!

Then 12.55am:-

I'm bk now! Completely frozen as that wind is bitter!! Glass of milk, couple of squares of chocolate, five mins catch up with tv and then 😴😴😴😴 Thinking this is my last night in this house eh??

And this reply from the OM:-

Pleased to here you're back safely 👍😘👍 Sorry you're frozen 😳 Won't be the last night in the house but most certainly won't be the same. Please don't think of it as a bad thing in this case 😉 but as a bright new American star for you and [DS] 😉😘😘❤️ Thank you for calling me tonight my princess 👍😘. Hope you get a good nights sleep. I love you hunni with all my ❤️ and and soul, and wish we were falling asleep tonight in each other's arms; preferably you laying on my chest 😉😘😜 Goodnight [WW], you are the most spectacular and gorgeous woman on this planet 😘😘😘😘 Gazillions of lots of sloppy hugs and kisses xxx 😘❤️😘

Talk about timing - this is the very first time I've been able to see anything after the start of April.

I feel panicked, my heart pounding out of my chest again

My meeting with the solicitor will of course go ahead - I'm even more determined now than ever - but I can't stop the overwhelming, panic-stricken desire to save my WW, to save our family, to protect our boy, to convince my WW that all is not lost...

But I know it is... I've only scratched the surface here too.

Help me.

[This message edited by saveus at 2:27 AM, May 11th (Sunday)]

Saveus,

I know that you sometimes feel that you are being bludgeoned here about being weak. Believe me when we say that you are ANYTHING BUT.

What we are trying to show you is more about tactics than showing strength. I will give you an example:

I do feel the need to discuss things this weekend as everything is so up in the air. Both the OM and I are being left hanging

What you need to understand, is that NOTHING more needs to be said. As a matter of fact, you saying less will have more of an impact on her(if there is going to be any). You stated your case earlier this week. Now---stick to it. No words, just actions on your behalf. The more that you engage with her, the more that she is getting what she wants. Like when you didn't answer her texts, and she wanted to "talk to you" as soon as you came home with your son---you got sucked right into the drama. That is EXACTLY what she wanted. If a scenario like this arises in the future, just tell her that as long as OM is still in her life, then you have nothing to say. You simply stop the conversation in its tracks.

This is what we are trying to relay to you. Like Bigger stated, you need to get out of infidelity. Of course, divorce is the eventuality if your WW doesn't commit, but that is out of your hands. Stop trying to control any outcome but your own(as that is the only one you have control of). The less that you engage your WW, whether you think that is what she wants or not(because that is irrelevant), the more that you will emotionally detach from her. That is your goal...at least until she commits to you. As you separate the finances, speak with your solicitor, and disengage from non-pertinent conversation with your WW, you will be leaving infidelity. Divorce is just a legal function at the end. And while it may look like a terrible finality at this moment, it will eventually look like a salvation if your WW does not change.

But that is up to her, as you can't change her.

The "push" off the fence isn't necessarily an action that you force on her to wake up to reality---you will push plenty hard enough, as you remove yourself from her equation. When she is no longer able to get you to engage in her games, reality may set in that much faster. But again, you don't control her.

You see? Nobody is accusing you of being weak....just advising you to disengage.

ETA----we cross-posted.

I am sorry that you had to see that message. But the truth is, I bet that there has been PLENTY of this type of conversation.

Remember---you can't control her. You can't save her. You have to save yourself, and your son. Just the fact that she has exposed your child to this disaster should be enough for you to forge ahead.

You deserve way better than this. I am sorry, friend.

[This message edited by jb3199 at 1:22 AM, May 11th (Sunday)]

saveus, I've messaged u

Thank you jb3199 and CantSeeInTheDark. I'll check my messages.

Trust me, I'm going to be strong and just let her go. I'm going to say as little as possible, even with my heart about to explode. Our boy's course of penicillin tomorrow morning so is about to get back to school for a full day. I'm going to stay calm but there's no way she's taking him away today. He's needs minimal disruption and, right now, that means staying in his own home.