SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

That's awesome news.

Keeping busy and being appreciated is always good to lift your spirit.

Happy for you!!

@Stevesn

Next time you make a mistake like that:

She text me a picture last night of some of the things in California she was seeing and once again I did not listen and replied back to her. I felt like I was getting the most generic responses of all time, and I found myself asking why are you even talking to me?

I managed to take a sliver of your advice and I didn't answer the last thing she said. I just took my phone in the other room and put it face down and went back to bed. I'm getting pretty fed up, to be honest. She literally sucks at communicating so fucking bad it is not even funny. I find myself asking this morning Just wtf was keeping our marriage together all this time? Could we ever communicate? This is obviously very important to me and although it's still early and my brains not turned all the way on, I can't seem to think of an answer.

Getting to that point where I'm just done. It was so hard to imagine before, but I can see the light. I'm tired of being treated like shit, pretending like everything is cool, and being led on by the allure of a conversation only to have it sit there and stagnate like she's not interested at all.

Why the fuck do they do these things?

Why do they keep stringing us along?

I'm not emotionally upset this morning, just annoyed. I'm looking forward to my salary negotiations today, really need to be focusing more on that. Have a good one everyone.

IHF, I think you are misunderstanding Chappie's point. I did read your entire response.

I agree with you that everyone's situation is different, as every single one of us is different. However, they are also strikingly similar. And you shouldn't ignore that.

I think Chappie's point was not to attack you for making a mistake and taking a chance with your WW, but you need to protect yourself.

Why do you keep reaching out? When you do this, are you opening yourself up to your WW with the hope that she will come back? What is she doing that makes you think she wants you back?

My XWW wanted to still "be friends" and would do things similar to your WW. Meanwhile she was out banging whoever her current sidepiece was. It didn't make me feel better. She wasn't doing it because she wanted me back, she was doing it out of pity. Fuck that I didn't need her pity. I suspect your WW is doing the same thing. You don't need her pity either.

Remember, the purpose of the 180 is not to punish your WW, but to protect yourself. You need to distance yourself from her until and unless she makes some genuine gestures to show remorse and ask forgiveness. Otherwise, you will be the only one taking a chance and being hurt.

Often when someone gives tough advice, it's because we hate to see someone else making similar mistakes, and sometimes we become a little harsh. Good intentions, poor delivery sometimes. And sometimes it is because we are trying to make a point.

People do the Pick me dance thinking that their WS will see how great they are, remember the good times, realize how much they don't want their marriage to end. This is not what happens. What happens is the WS realizes that they can have both and that the BS doen't seem to care THAT much because they are able to maintain a friendship.

It just turned into a normal conversation talking about her recent trip out of state, then I told her I would let her get back to it and it was nice talking to her. She said she was glad I messaged her. Nothing bitter between either of us, nothing weird, no talk about the marriage or cheating or anything like that.. just talking like.. we were friends?

This is basically telling her you are ok with her cheating. That you are happy with the friendship scraps she is giving you....

She text me a picture last night of some of the things in California she was seeing and once again I did not listen and replied back to her. I felt like I was getting the most generic responses of all time, and I found myself asking why are you even talking to me?

Again your fine with all of this. You know why there is no "real" communication? You don't want to talk about the A or act angry because it would ruin the pick-me dance and she's certainly not going to bring up anything that would ruin her cake-eating.

You may have had good communication in the past but... neither of you are going to talk about the elephant in the room because it will ruin your current MO.

You've got to stop this dance it's killing you and any chance you have of saving this marriage.

IHF,

I must preface what I am about to say by saying that I adore women and respect them, and I have several long-term female friends that I love (platonically!) and admire. They really brighten my life up, and I am very grateful for that. So I hope no-one thinks I am being misogynistic in what I am about to say...

One thing that I have observed in real life, and it happens with incredible regularity, everywhere, is that a woman can behave absolutely despicably, being totally horrible, callous, and disrespectful to some man who loves her, grind his heart, his hopes, and his dreams into the dirt, and then say, "I hope we can still be friends".

I never, ever, see a man who has treated a woman terribly say that to the poor thing as she staggers to her feet, feeling dazed and destroyed. Yet women say it all the time to men they have devastated, as if they want some kind of absolution from their victim, some kind of endorsement from that says, "Well, if we're still friends, I'm obviously not a bad person, am I?"

I can understand the women in question wanting to absolve themselves of being the bad guy, even when they truly are awful, and should be ashamed of themselves, but for the men involved, there is an exquisite cruelty to being asked to be friends, because it asks us to write off all the pain and wrongdoings that have been inflicted on us, and just be 'nice' to the person who put us through the meat grinder.

So, IHF, I understand your compulsion to respond, but honestly, there would be nothing wrong if you just leave her messages unanswered. She is contacting you to make her feel better about herself, so why play the game?

I had a friend who actually put a big piece of cardboard by his phone (back in the days when we all had landlines), which said, in capital letters, "DO NOT CALL COLLETTE". He had a habit of going out for a few beers with his pals on a Friday evening, and then he would go home, drunk, and call his horrible ex-girlfriend, Collette, and then regret it the following day. We have all done these things, but the urge passes, and then we start to get on with our lives again. You will too, my friend.

@Tigersrule77

I agree with you and think I understand your point. If it's not painfully clear by now, I obviously respond to things more emotionally than I give myself credit for. I can see that Chappie was only trying to help and I acted like an ass, but I also feel like I got out some good expressions in my post. I don't know if you noticed, but the writing has been tremendously therapeutic for me. Amazingly so.

What if I am OK with being friends with my WW and "absolving" her of her wrong-doings? I feel like if this didn't happen, I wouldn't have all these amazing opportunities or re-discovered my passion for writing. I feel like I have a purpose again, which I didn't for so long. For so long I thought my purpose was just to make her happy, but now it feels like something entirely different and I actually feel better. I'm doing things for me now.

Is it strange to say I'm happy in a way for all of this? I just came back from salary negotiations and it went tremendously well. I can actually feel myself healing day by day as things begin to look up. I can see my life without her again. It feels surreal. I feel very accepting to leave things as they are right now and see where they go.

@Freeme

I see your point, I definitely don't want her to think that. And I don't want to continue on with the pick me dance.. but I still do want to remain... her friend? What does it say about me that as time has passed I'm open to the idea of friendship with her while staying married, but we both are able to see other people? Am I thinking crazy again?

@M1965

Yes, it's totally fucked up. You are right though as are so many others, I should not play the game. But as I said above, what does it say about me that I'm willing to keep her close as a friend while I pursue my own avenues as well? Idk what's wrong with me but my mind has flip-flopped so much over the course of this entire ordeal. I feel very accepting of everything, betrayed, but accepting. It's not like anything can be taken back, or go back to the way things were. At the same time in this very moment I'm actually happy, not because anything about her at all but because I feel like I'm picking myself back up again and becoming the real me again. wtf is wrong with me lol

[This message edited by Ithasfeels at 10:29 AM, November 9th (Thursday)]

Stick it to her financially, she would to you if the situation was reversed.

Remember only you can decide what’s the best path for you.

You will have many highs and lows, from what she has done, over the next 1,2,5 years. What you’re feeling now will be different than what you feel next month and next week and tomorrow.

So can you be happy that her actions have made you get out of your shell and do something for yourself? Yes it’s ok to feel good about that.

If you now feel you don’t care that she’s your wife but now sleeping and living with another man that’s fine, but remember at any point this will hit you like a ton of bricks.

If you feel you are ok with no longer truly being her husband (a piece of paper doesn’t make you husband and wife in practice, your relationship and how you behave toward each other does) and now he effectively is her husband that’s fine. But again, tomorrow this may not be ok with you.

Deciding you are done with her and choosing to be her friend is one thing. Hoping she will come back to you if you decide to give her part of you without her reciprocating is another. If you are doing it without expectations you can probably do it, again, until it hits you that she’s giving herself fully to him and very little to you.

I couldn’t do it. Not til after a long time apart and NC and rebuilding my life. But I am not you.

I recommend starting IC to work thru your feelings and pain. I think you’re tamping them way down inside of you.

Take care.

The best thing you can do is throw in the towel and cut your losses, you will fell a million times better taking the pressure off yourself.

You haven't made it to the anger stage yet but you will. It will come when you realize you had nothing to do with this and all this is her fault. This wasn't an accident or a mistake, she choose to screwed you over and disrespect you and you being passive gives her the impression that you are weak thus deserved it. You think she would act the way you have if she caught you cheating?

You can't fix this because you didn't break it, she did. If you were to R it would be her doing and she won't even try if she feels like she is looking down at you.

If you read any of the stories here you would see if you want a chance at R you need to become an asshole. Nice guys get walked on, only tough love gets results. Everyone thinks they are the exception to the rule and they are always shown to be wrong. What you are doing and what she is doing is textbook behavior so it would be in your best interest to trust the advice people are giving you.

Stop dragging your feet, start a D and tell her you her out of your life ASAP and watch what happens. Reconciliation usually starts with these four little words: "I want a divorce".

wtf is wrong with me lol

Call me an optimist, but it sounds to me that your living your life for just you again and that allows for a lot of things that you did not have the space to pursue or handle before.Nothing wrong with being amicable with an ex.

However, the cynic in me thinks she has a vested financial interest in being your friend while things are sorted out in a D. She knows what she could potentially lose. WS are often accomplished manipulators. It serves you well to remember that.

Everyone here has your best interests in our minds when we say be careful. Too many BS have been taken advantage of in the D process hoping to "one day," R. You can't count on that happening. Not saying you are, but just asking that you be careful with your interactions with her. Further I would not share too much with her on your plans, etc. A polite one word answer is enough. She closed the door on the relationship and she needs to get used to the idea of you not being her emotional support while you getting nothing in return.

By definition WS are selfish. You need to ask yourself what does she have to gain by being your friend during a D ? What do you have to gain ? Does she offer fair terms? Or unfair terms and then leverage her "friendship" to convince you what you know to be false ?

Be careful. The easiest person to manipulate is someone you know very well and intimately. She could use that against you. Even though you seem to have extended her some trust she hasn't really done anything to earn it. Wolves sometimes come in sheeps clothing. Cliched? Yes. Probable considering the circumstances ? Yes.

ETA: Best advice I ever got from an attorney. You don't hire an attorney if you can work it out among yourselves. You hire an attorney to protect you as you have doubts that the other person will play fair.

[This message edited by numb&dumb at 11:08 AM, November 9th (Thursday)]

Why the fuck do they do these things?

Why do they keep stringing us along?

She feels fine. She’s not on the receiving end of this.

They only do what you allow.

You can’t cut contact you have what you have

A lot of experience here but you’ve ignored it all and even get angry at those trying to help.

I suspect you’ll wallow in the mire quite awhile yet.

Until you wake up to reality then if/when you read back you’ll find most of the good folks here were right.

Until then no one can help you. You can’t even help yourself at this time.

Which means an extended stay in limbo

IHF,

I'm a dinosaur in this infidelity crap. My WH started cheating with uglies back in the early 1990's.

Tal\ke her money, ALL of it. Make her have to work in order to pay you. It will suck the joy right out of her "dream job" with her boytoy. Then she'll be crawling to you, begging you to fix things. Then, you'll have bounced back so well, you'll be spitting on her.

You're TOO nice to her. Stop treating that creature like a human. IT is NOT.

It's a pile of dung. Treat it as such. You are way above that.

May I suggest devoting some time to real volunteering? Like a soup kitchen this Thanksgiving? These people are living examples of what happens to people as a result of terrible circumstances. Getting your hands dirty to improve their situations may help you see your situation in a different light.

I know it helps me.

And, gently, block it's phone number. You have no responsibility to be her plaything anymore.

"I'm tired of being led on by the allure of a conversation only to have it sit there and stagnate like she's NOT INTERESTED AT ALL".

Sorry to say this but she's NOT interested at all.

Damn... SI hits you with the truth.

Honestly the only thing holding me back from D at this point is it makes more sense to keep the health and dental insurance from her company (and she has been paying all the bills). I couldn't afford something that good right now, they are amazing benefits, wouldn't I lose that in the D?

I was also waiting because I didn't have a job yet, aka I couldn't afford to pay an attorney and I won't until I finally get paid. Not sure if you guys knew how tight my financial situation was prior to securing a job today. And then there's the holding out for hope, but admittedly that dream is withering and nearly dead. I'm a slow learner and apparently hard headed as fk

I think Stevesn said it best...

You will have many highs and lows, from what she has done, over the next 1,2,5 years. What you’re feeling now will be different than what you feel next month and next week and tomorrow.

I guess I'm just confused that I'm feeling happy and OK with that fact that she's not with me right now and I'm getting my life back on track [if not more together than it was before] with the path I'm following. Legally she's my wife, but again like Stevesn pointed out which reflects my current state of mind: it's only a piece of paper.

Nothing has changed since my previous post, just thought I would reply since there was a comment influx.

@Marz thx..

@Stevesn your kind posts give me the good feels. idk how, but I am doing it without expectations. I think this new job has really given me something else to 100% focus on and not wallow (it also doesn't hurt I'm surrounded by beautiful women)

@20yrsagoBS i dont like to hurt ppl even if i was wronged

@booyah I know =/

@numb&dumb I'm curious what the cynic in you thinks she has to gain by milking more time, if she's going to be the one to press for D instead?

@Hurting i know she would =/

@dobby I wouldn't be able to afford a lawyer for 2 more weeks, at least. I really like this line, "you cant fix this because you didn't break it" - wish I could have comprehended that 3 weeks ago

[This message edited by Ithasfeels at 1:00 PM, November 9th (Thursday)]

@numb&dumb I'm curious what the cynic in you thinks she has to gain by milking more time, if she's going to be the one to press for D instead?

My point was that in a D it can be done easier and with significantly less cost if you agree on the terms before hand. She might leverage any feelings you have left for her to gain what she wants. D by definition is a zero sum game, financially. There are finite amounts of things between the two of you as a M couple. Dividing them up means whatever she gets you don't and vice versa. Some WS have been known to suddenly turn very acrimonious to their STBX in D cases where "fairness," was promised. Don't expect her to acknowledge her mistake when they might mean material losses to her. Money or having less of it causes the nicest person in the world to suddenly become greedy and dishonest. Both things that most WS seem to have as character traits already.

FWIW- Her agreeing to carry you on her benefits for a year, etc. could be something written into the D settlement.

What if I am OK with being friends with my WW

Just wait a bit. I predict that in a few months you will be totally, absolutely, positively NOT OK with being friends with her.

Remember, you are on a rollercoaster ride. Don't do anything based on assumption that you will remain friends or at least friendly.

Thank you for clearing that up, both of you.

I see your point, I definitely don't want her to think that. And I don't want to continue on with the pick me dance.. but I still do want to remain... her friend? What does it say about me that as time has passed I'm open to the idea of friendship with her while staying married, but we both are able to see other people? Am I thinking crazy again?

Your kind of contradicting yourself in that note... One point says you are "definitely don't want her to think your OK with her cheating" later on you are saying...I"m fine with my wife dating/having sex with other people while we stay married.

Earlier you say you hate the superficial conversations ... but what type of conversations do you plan to have with your wife if you maintain this swinger marriage? Do you foresee talking openly about your affairs? Or keep several taboo subjects? Only talk about the weather, your work (her's involves OM) ... And do you really think you will be able to trust her as a friend? That when she says she is going on vacation alone next week you won't care and automatically assume she is going with OM. Of course you wont be able to vent to this friend because you don't want her mad... and have to keep the pick me dance going...

Yes, people stay friends with their ex's but these are people that arn't doing the pick me... take me back... I can be better... dance. All contact with your Wife at this point is telling her you are fine with her affair and are fine with being kicked to the curb. She's not going to complain. It feels good to have two men fight over her and she knows she stands to lose a lot of money if you do divorce her. Why shouldn't she cake eat.

Freeme you make so much sense...

It's all so confusing.

I'm not in the position [financially] to file.. yet. I will be by next month. That's a long time in "waiting" days but this new job will keep me very very busy in the meantime.

She text me today at 10am and I never responded + deleted it. I suppose freezing her out could technically start today...

I don't think I can talk about it anymore, I just talk in circles and contradict myself like you pointed out. I'm not sure what I'll do or how I feel. I should probably wait to make my next post until something changes. Thanks again for your words.