SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

circe and tired girl,

I hope you are still around. I had promised my W I wouldn't post. Today I just feel like giving up.

It has been 3 months of seperate bedrooms.

I have asked my W to come upstairs.

She feels that my bringing up the affairs is a sign I am not safe or ready for that. She says then it will be about sex.

We have MC tonight. I am going to discuss the divorce option. I just want to share a bed. I hoped that our anniversary would be a time for sex (in about a month), but that seems like a pipe dream. I feel I would heal more easily divorced that in the way we are.

Her arguements always seem to be as if the affairs never happened. She seems to feel I have to prove I am not controlling. I feel I am struggling hugely with rejection and trust.

That said W will sit and watch TV, we kiss, hug, say I love you, hold hands. But there is still this wall that I can't describe. She is doing a lot and I can tell she loves me. But the seperate beds is killing me. Do I learn to cope better or is this a legitimate concern I have? I feel I am punished for bringing up the affair or the frustration with the sleeping arrangements. She mentions that for some couples it isn't unusual to go 6 to 8 months... but she is expecting me to do that without complaining. She says that our MC stated that a healthy couple has sex once per week. I said that I heard average, not healthy. I said she had sex twice a week with AP#3. That created a problem.

I just need some thoughts. Thanks.

[This message edited by Catch44 at 5:25 PM, September 8th (Friday)]

I haven't read the whole thread, soo...probably a bunch of things i don't see.

Personally for myself...separate bedrooms and extended periods of time without sexual activity would be deal breaker for me...

I haven't read the whole thread, soo...probably a bunch of things i don't see.

Personally for myself...separate bedrooms and extended periods of time without sexual activity would be deal breaker for me...

She's got the power. File for divorce, hand her the papers without anger, tell her it's not working out for you. Then start walking away.

She'll chase you or she won't.

If she doesn't, you would have ended up divorced anyway, and you've saved yourself time and pain.

If she does, then you'll have the power and these games of hers can end.

Sex on demand is wrong, equally as wrong as with holding sex or using it as weapon.

She had an affair. I'm not sure how she's justifying this behavior. She either wants to be with you or not.

This is not an ideal situation for your recovery. Sounds like it's time to 180 and file.

So she gets the hugs and cuddles. The "I love you's" and kisses. Se gets to keep her lifestyle and reputation intact.

And you get......

File.

Plenty of good women out there. No need to settle for her.

[This message edited by ramius at 8:42 PM, September 8th (Friday)]

I tend to lean towards reconciliation if I feel there is some genuine remorse. Whilst your WW maybe fully remorseful it seems she is determined to hold on to her resentment(s) from your marriage pre d-day. Or, at least, this is what it seems to me. Your WW doesn't seem to feel that you are "entitled" to feel some resentments stemming from her affairs, though. That her issues trumps yours? Yeah, no.

No sex still? Over three months? I am so sorry but that is pretty unfair to you.

Do I learn to cope better or is this a legitimate concern I have?

Yes, it is legitimate. You have been patient.

I believe you said earlier in this thread that your last d-day was January 2017? Well, of course you have questions. It took me almost 9 months to even realize what some of the questions I needed answered were. KWIM? That is unfair of your WW to not expect you to have questions.

She says that our MC stated that a healthy couple has sex once per week.

Did you hear this? Weren't you at this session? If your MC said this why didn't you question your MC right then? What does your MC say about this lack of sex?

Earlier in this thread I posted that I believe you can not work on marriage issues until the infidelity issues are dealt with. It seems to be that your WW is trying to go right to the marriage issues and skipping the infidelity issues. Your WW hanging onto her resentments about your marital issues is, in a sense, blaming you for her affair and bad choices. Honestly, I question her remorsefulness. I do appreciate that your marital dynamic wasn't healthy for her. However, this situation isn't healthy for you. Your WW needs to make a decision very soon on whether she is going to let go of her resentments and become vulnerable. You need to become vulnerable, too. You both need to take a leap of faith and start over from fresh if you both truly want to reconcile. That doesn't mean that you don't have work to do on past issues.

I feel I would heal more easily divorced that in the way we are.

Yes, I agree. Possibly if you divorce and you both individually work on yourselves you can both get healthy. You maybe able to become good partners for each other in the future but the way it is right now is very unfair to you, Catch44. There is no way my FWH would go over three months without sex (unless medical reasons) and he was the WS. That is a lot to ask of a man, a lot to ask of anyone. After all, I don't believe we got married to be celibate.

eta: to fix errors

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 11:04 PM, September 8th (Friday)]

Thanks for everyone's replies.

Weren't you at this session? If your MC said this why didn't you question your MC right then?

It was said to each of us in our entry individual session. I did say that wasn't going to work for me.

At the end of MC we basically agreed that divorce seemed the way to go. W wasn't willing to budge and I wasn't.

I emailed MC afterward and said I would be willing to do another joint session. I had said to him that we had tried and failed. He said that we had not tried with him (this is our 3rd joint session). So we'll see. We are both so angry that the sessions have been venting. There hasn't been much of anything constructive.

MC did feel that my W needs to have a zone of safety and that the current situation was what we should be working with/within. He didn't say it was good or bad, more it was just were it is and will be worked on from there.

W wasn't willing to budge and I wasn't.

I don't understand why the MC feels WW's needs supersede your needs? I feel your WW lost her right to be angry about marital issues when she started fucking other men. At least until your healing and her fixing herself has been addressed. She isn't willing to own her shit, imo, and wants to blame shift you for her affairs. That isn't remorse no matter what guise she is putting on this, imo. I would imagine that is why she doesn't want you to post because she knows we will call out her lack of remorse, selfishness, blame shifting and unwillingness to own her shit.

It would be foolish, imo, for you to "budge", Catch44. If you do, look forward to a sexless marriage. However, I wouldn't be surprised if your WW wouldn't have a sexless marriage (not saying she is doing it now) long term. The sad fact is your WW doesn't want to have sex with you. I am sorry Catch44. That would be a dealbreaker for me. I would not be waiting around for my husband to decide if he would ever want to have sex with me again. That is me, though.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 12:53 AM, September 9th (Saturday)]

Catch44, can you everything you just wrote and while picturing the number 4 in your mind?

This woman knows the pain she's caused you and did it again anyway.

Catch44, I'm sorry but I see this as her still being faithful to her AP. I would say just file and get it over with. She's "Just not into you".

Thanks for the replies.

I want to see where this MC goes.

I don't think my W is in anything currently.

Our marriage was so sexually focused that I wonder if this is something it needs to change that.

The other option is everyone is exactly right.

I need some time to figure out which way to go.

The last couple of months have been good. Just no intimacy.

I am going to see where MC goes.

I appreciate thoughts and perspectives.

I think your marriage counselor is full of shit.

So......

I am 49.5 years old. My libido is waning. I would probably be happy with once per week at this point.

My xWW, on the other hand, has a libido which is increasing. She is frisky daily. Sometimes more than once per day.

(For whatever reason, our Creator thought it amusing to pair randy young men with chaste young women, and randy middle aged women with declining middle aged men.)

My xWW and I operate as a quasi couple. She helps with the kids to support my job. I financially support her. A condition of that support is her not sleeping with others.

As she is frisky daily, but can't "shop" elsewhere, she comes over daily seeking sex. And even though my libido is not on par with hers, I deliver without complaint. Men can't fake being turned on. If am not "there," I get "there" so I can perform. I haven't needed a pill yet, but that is a likely future possibility.

So even though it takes some effort to get frisky, and even though my libido would be satisfied with less, I still do what is necessary to meet her needs. Because that's what couples--or in our case quasi-couples--should do.

Your ww is either still cheating or is using sex as a weapon. And your MC is playing along with her victim mentality. Fuck them both or fire them both.

[This message edited by PlanC at 9:48 AM, September 9th (Saturday)]

aw man, sorry for the whole tit-for-tat mess

yeah her not facing how dumping gasoline wasn't the way to put out a fire ain't helping in the whole shift over to power with the "no" after she fucks around

you can only control you and you do need to answer for yourself what you define as healthy

IF the MC is willing to squarely prioritize that the infidelity has to be dealt with as a paramount issue in that so long as she holds onto her marital resentments overtop her head-mess and doesn't own her shit that it was a crappy way for her to communicate when she had options to open her mouth not her legs THAN there might be a breakthrough that marriage is not about a power struggle

it's a dance

her actions seem about power and they are not seeming to be based on her loving as in expressing empathy for your frustration

while at the same time she seems still unable to express why she's become so controlling with the sex = she got CSA in her background?

That whole mess might be best with a sex-therapist since = I am going to go waaaaay out there = if your idea of intimacy is you using her body for self-gratification than I can understand the turn-off however that is a discussion she needs to be vulnerable with you about and not just cut you off at the knees as those are her hang-ups and it is perfectly fine for you to suck at mind-reading.

If you are a loving husband I would wager your O's are intensified knowing you are pleasuring her as your hand works just fine to get extra energy out... so if sex is about connection that than intimacy issue can be explored further with a really good MC

healing from infidelity is separate from healing the marriage so I commend you for investing as you can and yes, you of course can complain, and she has every right to stay in her box

you can only control you

you do not have to do the pick me dance in the aftermath to communicate that you hear her pre-A disatisfaction

again, the issue really ain't about the frequency as I read it, it's the whole give-get dance is busted and now you are both trying to move with broken legs so take it easy and slow and hopefully less venting and more reflecting

I read you taking ownership regarding how you are willing to change your entitled to sex attitudes but is she willing to own and fix her own entitlement issues?

dunno

peace as you process

He *is* entitled to sex. So is she.

She *is* entitled to love. So is he.

Would people willingly enter exclusive relationships if it were known that their basic physical and emotional needs would'nt be met?

If had to name the biggest lesson in this mess, it's that complaining endlessly about your unmet marital needs while taking no steps to get out of the marriage shows you to be the dysfunctional one, not your spouse.

Ugh.

Wish I could have understood that many years ago.

What SisterMilkshake said, and...

MC did feel that my W needs to have a zone of safety and that the current situation was what we should be working with/within.

Huh? WTF does THAT mean?

OK. she needs to feel safe. So do you. But we make our own sense of safety. There's nothing you can do to make her feel safe. So where is this MC coming from?

A 'healthy' couple does sex once a week? Where does he get that idea? The research I've seen is that each couple has to figure it out for themselves. (There's some research on actual frequency, but that what people do, not what they want to do. I wanted a lot more sex than I got/gave when our son was at home and we both held jobs, but caring for our son and doing our jobs interfered, as it does for almost everybody.)

Your W cheated because of her own issues. No amount of work on M issues will change that. If your W is still hung up on issues in the old M, she is not remorseful, and she is not doing the work she needs to do.

If the MC doesn't believe that and doesn't see that, he's useless to you, perhaps even absolutely useless.

As your W resolves her internal issues (if she does), a lot of the old issues will disappear, because they're caused by her issues. Energy spent on her old resentments is wasted. Besides, they're her resentments, and she's the only one who can give them up.

Do you have requirements for R? If not, I recommend setting some up.

One of mine was sex ... W was to initiate sex sometimes, and she could say 'no' if she really didn't want sex, but her default was to be 'yes'. (We worked that out with our MC on d-day.) You know what? It turns out she likes sex a lot more than she realized.

I'm not talking about 'sex on demand' at all. I'm talking about a couple coming to an agreement about their sexual activities. Or not - and if an agreement that satisfies each partner can't be reached, I think I'd want to break up the partnership.

************************************

PlanC,

Use it or lose it. If we take a break, it's difficult to get back into our groove.

[This message edited by sisoon at 11:02 AM, September 9th (Saturday)]

Your W cheated because of her own issues. No amount of work on M issues will change that. If your W is still hung up on issues in the old M, she is not remorseful, and she is not doing the work she needs to do.

If the MC doesn't believe that and doesn't see that, he's useless to you, perhaps even absolutely useless.

This. What sisoon said.

Catch, it sounds like you're push the MC thing because you want to stay married.

Why is your wife not operating under the same motivation? MC won't work.

I'll give an example. Say I want to own a taco bell with my best friend. But he doesn't. No amount of negotiations is going to change that. Even if I offer him a silent partner and 10% stake with no strings and nothing out of his pocket... he's still not going to care about that store and never make a good business partner. No third party is going to change that.

Does that make sense?

There's nothing you can do to make her feel safe. So where is this MC coming from?

I went down into her room last weekend and woke her up to come up to our room. She said no and asked me to leave. We got into a moderate discussion and I went for a run.

Did it again the next morning. Out of frustration. Not feeling like she cares.

Last two times at MC we argue/fight and MC says see this is that pattern, and then again, oh see there is the pattern again.

I just want to know if we can get out of the pattern. And if not, then I want to be well enough to not do it in my next relationship. But I want to see if this one can be salvaged.

Besides my pushing for divorce last night, my W has stated she wants this marriage. She wants to be up in our room. She knows we will have sex.

I have a problem with rejection already and this separate bedroom thing is a kick in the nuts. Daily. So I really appreciate everyone for being here for me.

I need to see this through a bit more. For me. I still feel I am controlling. Having to work through that with these shitty circumstances sucks. I would have preferred another path. I'm going to reassess monthly and figure MC is roughly weekly. So I'll keep reassessing.

If my W was disabled and couldn't have sex, then I would still be there. If her head is messed up and I have some part in that, I intend to be there. Within reason. And then the rollercoaster will hit me on Wed or I'll trigger hugely and I'll feel like there is no hope.

If your W is still hung up on issues in the old M, she is not remorseful, and she is not doing the work she needs to do.

My W doesn't want to feel like she is controlled to do it. She wants to be able to come to me through choice. I am hoping that the MC will be able to establish steps toward that. Steps forward that haven't been there. Prompting consideration when maybe it wouldn't be there.

I want to see. This is our first time with an actual marriage counsellor.

W sees her CSAT and I am seeing mine.

I'm working on self soothing (calming?). I took an anxiety index with the MC and scored low.

Why is your wife not operating under the same motivation? MC won't work.

I believe she is committed. She'll text me that she loves me during the day.

MC points out that the forcefulness of her arguing at MC is a sign that she wants the marriage. Last fight we this week I brought up divorce and she stated that she considered separation as starting on "that" day. I asked why after we cooled down. I was worried she said it just to affect $. She said it to buy more time to work on the marriage.

My CSAT met her to put out a fire between us when MC was on holiday. My CSAT has a military background dealing in PTSD. Told me that I have to realize that the war is over. My CSAT also said I should sit back and give time.

So some of this is my own making. Because it is so difficult for me. I want to see what happens with this MC.

Do you have requirements for R? If not, I recommend setting some up.

All my requirements are basically being met.

I would like phone access but don't care that much (this was mentioned at the last MC).

She is accountable for time. She goes where she says she'll go.

We have time set aside to spend together (although I would like more, I feel insatiable)

Lots of family time.

Hold hands, kiss, ILY's, have snuggled recently on the couch.

It is basically the sleeping in separate bedrooms and no sex. The not being able to hold her at night is killing me slowly. We really can't substitute anything for the loss of these. It is like dating but with a feeling of rejection rather than that limerence.