SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

But what the two of you are doing to your child is criminal.

READ THIS PART, IT IS TRUE. YOUR CHILD DESERVES BETTER THAN WHAT SHE HAS BEEN HANDED BY THE BOTH OF YOU. YOUR "LOVE" FOR EACH OTHER DOES NOT MATTER. SHE DOES!!!

You waited until a page or two after the initial prostitute post to add a little sentence about how it was something that you told your BH prior to dday that you wanted to do. He took you up on it.

Wait what? I missed this.

About calling the prostitute, a few months before my confession we did have talks about something to that effect, but it was based on a mindset of love. When he told me to call, he specifically said to DD "Mommy has to do something she doesn't like now because this is what happens when you screw up."

WHY THE DAMN HELL IS HE TALKING TO YOUR PRESCHOOLER ABOUT THIS?!?!

[This message edited by JanaGreen at 9:19 AM, October 12th (Tuesday)]

you told your BH prior to dday that you wanted to do.... Mommy has to do something she doesn't like now

So in other words, you didn't tell your husband you were dying to have a threesome. You told him you would do one for him prior to DDay and he decided to punish you with it afterward.

Sorry, BA. There's no magic potion or bandaid that will fix this relationship.

I could go on and on about you and your H. But, you two are consenting adults. You do have the power to walk away and to put a stop to the madness when you're ready to do so. However, there is an innocent beautiful child involved here - she has no voice, she cannot walk away from you and her father - she's 4 for crying out loud. IMO, there is a myriad of things going on in this marriage, none of which are healthy or safe for your DD. You mentioned she's been having nightmares - hmm, wonder why??? at the end of the day, both your and your H need to stop with this selfishness, stop hiding behind your DD, and do right by her. this is a toxic relationship and I truly believe the two of you feed off each others issues - the toxicity is cyclical and the cycle continues with your daughter paying the ultimate price. If as her mother, this is acceptable for you, then continue. Otherwise, remove her from this situation and this environment before it's too late. As her mother, her parent, her guardian, that is your responsibility...

[This message edited by MissesJai at 10:55 AM, October 12th (Tuesday)]

Posted: 9:16 PM, September 20th (Monday), 2010

The RAs are real. One of the prostitutes he made me call to bring her to our home and did it in front of and with me. That was the first time.

.

Posted: 7:04 PM, September 22nd (Wednesday), 2010

About making me call the first prostitute, I have to provide a little background to be fair to BH. It’s very embarrasing. Before Dday I had told BH something that would make him think I’m ok with something like that.

Posted: 8:43 PM, October 11th (Monday), 2010

About calling the prostitute, a few months before my confession we did have talks about something to that effect, but it was based on a mindset of love

veritas: So in other words, you didn't tell your husband you were dying to have a threesome. You told him you would do one for him prior to DDay and he decided to punish you with it afterward

BA’s situation is confusing enough without us adding to the confusion with over dramatizations of what’s being said and especially with what isn’t being said. It’s how witch hunts get started.

Ba never said that she was dying to have a threesome nor did anyone suggest that other than you. Those were your words.

Also, reframing what she said into: You told him you would do one for him prior to DDay, suggests that it was her BH that told her that a threesome was something he was interested in and that she was willing to oblige him.

For clarification purposes, nowhere has BA said that it was her BH’s suggestion.

What she said was that it was something that she herself brought to his attention (see her Sept. 22 post). It may turn out that it WAS his idea pre-dday but she’ll have to offer yet another clarification on that matter.

BA did say that she felt that her BH was punishing her when he had her call the pro. It’s sad and it’s wildly dysfunctional but it doesn’t impress me that she was forced to do this or that she did this because of years of abuse.

What does impress me is that burntashes would suggest or entertain the idea of bringing another woman into the relationship despite already having confessed to two ddays AND prior to her confession of her PA.

That’s F’d up!

There's a lot of toxic, destructive relationships that don't fall under BWS and I think that this is one of them.

I can only imagine her BH’s anger and confusion over this after his 3rd dday. Did he really think that he was punishing her? At that point did he have the mental capacity to trust her when she told him that she didn’t want to call a pro?

RAS: I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. I'm not interested in witch hunts, nor do I think the situation is a simple matter of infidelity.

What she said was that it was something that she herself brought to his attention (see her Sept. 22 post).

Posted: 7:04 PM, September 22nd (Wednesday), 2010

About making me call the first prostitute, I have to provide a little background to be fair to BH. It’s very embarrasing. Before Dday I had told BH something that would make him think I’m ok with something like that.

It's a huge leap from bringing it to his attention to saying something that might make him think she's okay with it. And he obviously didn't really believe that because that's what he told their TODDLER.

The entire situation is f'd up. And no, I don't think he's reacting out of pain and rage.

At that point did he have the mental capacity to trust her when she told him that she didn’t want to call a pro?

Oh yeah, we definitely have to agree to disagree. This is a toxic situation. Let's suppose he is reacting out of pain and rage. That still doesn't make it right, nor does it make it a healthy environment for anyone involved. Healing is not possible so long as they are together. He refuses to get counseling; he's physically, mentally, and emotionally sbusive to her, and he's alienating their child. That's the bottom line for me.

[This message edited by veritas at 11:49 AM, October 12th (Tuesday)]

I think there's so much going on here both from BA's side and us posters.

It's never all or nothing. Abusers are victims as well. Many times that's how they were made.

The problem is that BA's husband isn't reaching out for help. Isn't seeking advice or healthy solutions.

He's made damaging disasterous choices as has BA, but for those of you who are trying to impeach her remember, she's accepted 100% of the blame for all of this from the beginning. She's owned hurting him horribly. She's accepted her actions were terrible.

I know I (and others) have focused on her daughter from the beginning of this (got some heat for it), but she's the one that is learning. Learning how spouses treat one another. These lessons cannot be unlearned. They'll have to be worked through with years of therapy just like many of us here at this site.

This is a tragedy and people's knee jerk reaction has been to help. That's been heartwarming. Two groups coming together to try and offer what they could to someone that seems to be in horrible pain.

That says so much about the members of this site, and this site itself, whether we agree or not.

Veritas,

nor do I think the situation is a simple matter of infidelity.

Agreed.

This is a toxic situation. Let's suppose he is reacting out of pain and rage. That still doesn't make it right, nor does it make it a healthy environment for anyone involved.

Agreed.

Uncertainone:

The problem is that BA's husband isn't reaching out for help. Isn't seeking advice or healthy solutions

Right, but Burntashes is reaching out for help on herself as a WW and on her husband as a BH. She's gotten very little help with the BS/WS thing though.

Why? Because it was decided early on that all of BA's problems from the time she got married are due to BWS and her affairs have been totally excused or over looked.

Since it's been decided early on that BA's BH is a monster who systematically abused BA from the time he began dating her, any and all reactions he has to her A's aren't reactions or symptoms of a BH but rather characteristic of a monster.

I think there's so much going on here both from BA's side and us posters.

It's never all or nothing.

Agreed.

her affairs have been totally excused or over looked.

No one has excused or overlooked her affair. People responded on her last few threads to more immediate issues that were occuring presently, such as him seeing other women (not just the postitute episode), the name calling, and the physical aspects that were mentioned.

You had just as many BS here stating this was far over the norm.

Since it's been decided early on that BA's BH is a monster who systematically abused BA from the time he began dating her, any and all reactions he has to her A's aren't reactions or symptoms of a BH but rather characteristic of a monster.

It's definitely a characteristic of someone that doesn't value women. He states that he's had issues with previous girlfriends. It doesn't make him a monster, just an unhealthy choice for a spouse, as is BA.

Not a real mystery as to the dysfunctions that pulled them together, but even with all that said, NO ONE on this site would excuse BA's affair. An affair is NEVER a viable, excusable, explainable, justifiable choice, and I have haven't seen anyone state that it is...Although there have been many pages to these threads, so I may be mistaken

No one has excused or overlooked her affair. People responded on her last few threads to more immediate issues that were occuring presently, such as him seeing other women (not just the postitute episode), the name calling, and the physical aspects that were mentioned.

You had just as many BS here stating this was far over the norm.

BS and abused woman here. I spent far too long analyzing why my husband did what he did, the affair and the systematic abuse, and what I could do to make him quit being abusive. Obviously, I couldn't; that was his job and he didn't think he needed fixing. I haven't seen where anyone has overlooked her affair and I could be wrong, but I haven't seen anyone making excuses for it. He told her himself that there was nothing she could do, that the only thing that would make him happy was to keep having sex with other women. What kind of help as a WS can I offer? Stay until you get an STD or someone calls CPS? So far as I can see, she's been remorseful and doing the work. She's completely sensitive to his emotions. I don't know what the future holds for them, but the present is a trainwreck, one that's not in BA's hands.

Yet I am much to blame because I am a very frustrating person to live with in a lot of ways. So he has every right to be frustrated.

Can you elaborate on this? What makes you "a very frustrating person to live with"?

Sorry to say but BA doesn't really need any help with "WS/BS" issues. Her husband has told her, as per the several times she has said it in this thread, that their marriage is over and that they are only living together to keep their "family" unit together for their dd (you aren't doing her any favours, BA). It is hard to work on WS/BS issues when one partner does not want to work on them and who is behaving so erratically and inexcusably that it would almost be unhealthy to try to work on said issues.

Yes, what BA did was wrong and there is never an excuse for having an affair. Having said that, her BS is now a WS himself having slept with multiple women not just the prostitute that BA apparently consented to...there is no excuse for any of his behaviour either.

I stand by what I said before that her BH's issues go beyond infidelity. I'm not saying that his behaviour *caused* her affair...I'm saying that his behaviour now has deeper roots. Most of us BS's don't go completely off the deep end and start behaving abusively with total disregard for our children (for those that that have them). It is not normal and it is inexcusable.

I hope you're doing ok, BA. I hope you come back and keep reading and realize that while, yes you made a wrong choice to have an affair, you deserve to feel safe and not have someone treat you like you are something less than human. Please do the right thing for your daughter, your BH and yourself and get out of this situation.

[This message edited by sg2008 at 7:15 PM, October 12th (Tuesday)]

You may have seen the "house afire" analogy here before.

We say to foggy new WSs who talk about the issues (even severe issues) in their marriage before the affair as though they were justification for the affair that those issues are like termites, but that the affair was like a raging fire. Either will destroy the house, but the fire is the much more rapidly destructive and the first priority to address.

In this case, the fire is what your daughter is being exposed to.

And, as gently as I'm going to be able to manage, you are still putting your relationship issues before your daughter's needs. What she needs more than some mythical intact family is an environment free of drama, sexual acting out, ugly words, violence, and adults who believe their emotional landscape of the moment takes priority over their daughter's emotional, mental, and physical well-being.

Your husband has made it very clear that he's utterly cavalier about the effect his behavior has on his child. Either he's completely in denial, stupid, or indifferent, and it really doesn't matter which it is--the effect is the same.

SOMEONE has to put her first.

Will it be you? Or will you continue put the cyclical drama between you and your husband first?

Kamkim,

this is the Wayward forum. If you you can't post respectfully and without *yelling* at the members in here you will be removed from this forum.

As for everyone else posting on this thread - can we please remember that this is burntashes' thread and post *to* her rather than *about* her?

But what the two of you are doing to your child is criminal.

I think this is more than a bit exaggerated regarding my daughter's situation. We do have good days and bad days, and what gives me hope is the percentage of good days is starting to outweight the bad days. It's only been a month since my last dday, and Husband's pain from all the new information does need to be taken into consideration for the few episodes of lashing out. The things I use to decide whether this is a healthy place for DD to be:

1. Has Husband's more extreme disrespectful outbursts decreased? Does he agree it's wrong and promise to stop? The answer is yes and yes.

2. He's stopped calling prostitutes after the first month since the June dday. Although he says he makes no promises to me about being committed to staying, he's also honored his word that he's not out looking for anyone anymore. He is very careful about STD issue and wouldn't really want to expose himself or me to it. What he said about not caring, IMHO, was more out of spite than what he actually feels.

3. To the comment that I or Husband get some twisted pleasure out of hurting and being hurt by each other, I have to respectfully disagree. I don't get any pleasure out of hurting or being hurt by him. As for Husband, even though he did lash out in pain, I really don't think he enjoys seeing me hurt when the anger subsides because he clearly still loves me.

4. The fact that I am starting to speak my mind and not be afraid to talk to him honestly hasn't been lost on Husband. He gets defensive when he perceives it as me preaching to him, but when the point is valid he respects it, especially when it concerns making sure we provide a peaceful environment for DD. Right now the most stable place for DD is still home, as we have been able to show each other love and respect since we talked.

When I said I can be very frustrating, I was referring to some of my personal traits, such as not being on time, not remembering what Husband told me, etc.

If the hitting, verbal insults, and angry exchanges are continueing and in front of DD, I would agree this is a toxic situation and would get DD out as fast as I can. But this is not the case. Things are slowly getting better as I am doing everything I can to show Husband that I am committed to changing and focusing on our family. It's been a good day. I don't want to have any false hope based on one good day, but good is good and I'm glad we can enjoy a bit more peace.

Thanks for the outpour of concern. I understand you think that I should flee with DD, but this is not what's needed right now.

I'm going to call bullshit now, Burnt.

This thread isn't even a month old and look at the drama.

Your daughter was traumatized and he did all of the things you said would prompt you to leave immediately ... and yet there you are.

Sorry - but you're not putting your daughter's needs and well-being first.

I know. Because I am guilty of the same damn thing. I stayed and stayed and stayed ... trying to make things work so my daughter would have a home with two parents.

Right now the most stable place for DD is still home, as we have been able to show each other love and respect since we talked.

Burnt, your home is anything but a stable environment.

You've posted more than once that your husband has made strides forward and things are looking up ... only to post a few hours later that he's said or done something else hurtful. Your posts have been all over the board. You're going to stay. You're going to leave. Stay. Leave. Stay. Leave. "Oh I don't know what to do."

He yells at you. He yells at you in front of her. He has, just since this thread started yelled at you in front of her and used her as a pawn in your twisted little games.

And that doesn't even touch the things you said to me about his behaviour in front of your daughter in a PM.

My God, woman, if 1/2 of what you say about his behaviour and your own is true your daughter is not in a stable environment.

And I'm sorry Burnt, but if you think that just because you're putting on a good front and things look smooth on the surface that your daughter isn't clued in to what is going on you're being hopelessly and dangerously naive.

We thought our daughter was FINE. A-okay. Because things looked good on the surface. They weren't. And our daughter knew it.

She is 14 and she was cutting her wrists, legs and abdomen with razor blades.

Read that again, Burnt.

My beautiful, intelligent, amazing baby was cutting herself with razor blades as a way to deal with the pain we were causing her in her "stable environment."

Here's the kicker. I thought it was just after the A. That my reaction to the A and the stress of trying to rebuild after the A was the cause.

Nope. Turns out my baby girl had been hurting herself for years. YEARS. She would hit herself, bang her head into things ... Some of the bruises on her legs that I thought were due to normal kid activities and being clumsy like me (I can trip over a shadow and I end up with bruises on my legs and say, "Oh. When the hell did that happen?") were because she was hurting herself to try to let some of the pain she was feeling out.

Pain that we were causing her in her 'stable' environment.

And nothing personal Burnt - but my ex-husband and I didn't have nearly the level of dysfunction you have described.

If you think your daughter isn't cluing in and being affected by this twisted melodrama you have going on you are dead wrong.

If you won't leave then at the very least get your daughter into a counselor. Let them evaluate how much damage you've inflicted on your innocent child. And then let them tell you how to fix it.

I pray to God, Burnt, that you never have try to comfort your child while cleaning and bandaging her self-inflicted wounds.

NOTHING on earth - not even the pain of being betrayed and cheated on - hurts as bad as knowing you fucked your kid up so badly that she resorts to cutting herself.

[This message edited by SouthernGal at 7:13 AM, October 13th (Wednesday)]

I don't want to have any false hope based on one good day,

Yes, you do. After 1. Good. Day. everything's rosy and everything you said a few days ago isn't true. You've moved the line in the sand for leaving and welcomed a new threshhold of pain. Good luck with the rollercoaster. And if you, an adult, have had 1 good day, that means your daughter has sensed the tension for every other day, and her coping skills have barely had time to develop.

[This message edited by veritas at 7:54 AM, October 13th (Wednesday)]

Burnt,

I am curious when you will recognize your own pain. For just a few minutes, forget about any pain your WH has because he has been creating his own for a while now and think about your own. Give it a place, give it a voice, accept it and stop trying to stuff it away. Let it out. You deserve that much.

It seems as if this thread is played out. People have given hours of their time and a great amount of concern to your situation. At this point, leaving this thread open is not likely to generate any other responses than what you've been receiving so far. Only you can make healthy decisions. There are many others here who need help. Perhaps a break from this thread will give everyone a chance to shift focus.