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Do not have the children witness her moving. That will be heartbreaking for them. It is best to have a plan in place....tell them, then you take them to the movies and ice cream while SHE moves on her own.

They are CHILDREN, they do not understand what is going on.

Friends, please. Thank you so much for your responses, harsh words and all.

Let me clarify: this is our second time separating. The kids were back and forth to this apartment on Coparent schedule for three months. It has been set up as a second home for them: toys, lots of their stuff. They are used to it. We have been hanging out there almost every weekend as a second home for nearly two months since she came home for false R.

So the place itself is not new or scary.

The difficulty will be telling the kids that that we will no longer be together. And we will tell them together.

My wife met with my sons therapist this morning and we have the script down as best we can for this weekend when she returns.

We will do it gently and quickly. And then we will all take moms stuff there together so they do not feel like mom is abandoning them.

Thanks again.

I think it's far better that they DON'T witness this. I had a similar situation, and I had to stop allowing the ex to come and get things when the kids were home, after my 14-year-old son lay down in a fetal position in the hallway and cried like a baby. People are not telling you this out the sides of their neck, and you and your ex are not different and special. Pushing your children into the middle of this divorce is a horrible idea, but it's what you've been doing all along in an attempt to assert control. That ship sailed a long time ago; the best you can hope for is not to let your children go down with the ship. Please reconsider.

My words were not meant to be harsh. I cannot understand though how moving their own mother out of their home will be in any way beneficial to them. Are you intending on telling them of the impending divorce? Please don't give them false hope by telling them 'mommy needs some time' or some derivation of that. They deserve the honesty. Remember what your STBXWW told your son while looking in his eyes? Are you ready for that convo? Given her swings of mood, I anticipate a drama mama moment or three during this move. Guard the children well brother.

Next subject, how are you doing? Are you ready to let go? Complete 180? Are you taking care of yourself as well? I realize the convo turned heavily to the kids and I hope you realize why, but I/we are concerned for you also. What are you doing for YOURSELF during this sabbatical? Your kids need you.

Ultimately, this site is about surviving infidelity. I hope we can help. Keep posting.

Okay AD, obviously you believe very strongly that you are doing what's best for all of you. Just as obviously, you won't listen to us, so there's no point in trying to change your thinking.

Do what you feel you must.

We will still be here when the proverbial s**t hits.

Good luck.

(((((Abbondad)))))

...Nibs

Next subject, how are you doing? Are you ready to let go? Complete 180? Are you taking care of yourself as well? I realize the convo turned heavily to the kids and I hope you realize why, but I/we are concerned for you also.

Thank you for asking. I am not doing too well. Feeling beaten down, alone, quite hopeless. The kids are running around--happily--and I am holding myself together for them.

I asked my therapist this morning point blank, what should I do (after we had gone through the latest tedium). For a change she "took off her therapist's cap," looked me in the eye and said, "Find someone else."

My future personal ad: "Emotional trainwreck looking for someone new to whom to cling."

So the plan is to tell them "gently and quickly."

What happens when they start crying? What happens when they ask questions?

Do you really think your WW is going to stay calm and be honest with them? You already said you knew she would blow sunshine up their ass when you tell them about the divorce. Do you think she's suddenly going to be calm and rational?

Not all therapists give great advice. Telling the kids together would be the best thing...except when their mother is abusive,blameshifty,and,well,except whenthe other parent is your wife. She has NOT thought about those kids at all during the last 2 years. Its been alllll about her.

Speaking as a mother....we are not perfect...we all make mistakes...we all say or do things we regret. But a good mother will never do what your WW has done. The level of selfishness this woman has shown..the complete disregard for the emotional health of her children..these are not the actions of a good mother.

What are you going to say to your son when he tells you that you lied to him a few weeks ago? Because,you did indeed lie to this boy. I tried to tell you to go to him immediately,apologize,and be honest with him. So did many other people. You decided to do what you felt was right by your WW,instead of the best thing for this child. I fear this,more than anything else,will come back to bite you in the ass. The repercussions of lying to your child when they come to you with a desperate need for the truth will be far reaching..and possibly devastating.

In all honesty,I think the reason you have put off telling the kids the truth is because you have been hoping your WW would snap out of it and decided to stay in the marriage. You knew it was a long shot,but you went for it. And your kids have paid the price.

I know. Im being harsh. I think it's warranted.

[This message edited by confused615 at 6:35 PM, May 14th (Tuesday)]

Abbondad, I believe the self-description in your future personal ad sums up the crux of this ongoing situation. It's not just that your wife is a continuing cheater; it's that you continue to cater to her bad behavior and hang on to her despite, or regardless of, the damage inflicted on you and your family. Whatever happens this weekend - and I hope for your kids' sake that you're prepared for ALL possible scenarios - this needs to STOP NOW.

I have tried to stay out of this. I really have. I am not going through a separation or divorce, so I'm not sure that I'm qualified to give advice here. But seriously.

I asked my therapist this morning point blank, what should I do (after we had gone through the latest tedium). For a change she "took off her therapist's cap," looked me in the eye and said, "Find someone else."

I hope this is a joke. There is no way you should be finding someone else right now. You have so much work to do for yourself in therapy before you can make a good partner to anyone. And I get it. She is the one cheating. But you are the one dealing with the results of it, and that is messing with you big time. Even if the perfect woman, perfect partner for you were to come along right now, there is no way you should be even trying to start something. You have so much shit on your plate, adding anything else, especially something as consuming and important as a relationship should be, would be a mistake. If your therapist really said this to you, I hope that you are not taking it as the be all, end all.

AD, there are so many people here trying to help you. People who have been where you are, who have come out wiser in the process. You keep returning, saying "thank you for the advice, but........". I don't know if you're getting a thrill out of everyone telling you how awful your wife is. Maybe it makes you feel better to hear it confirmed. The truth is, none of us are there with you. We are hearing your side of the story. I'm not saying that she is in any way in the right. If you know she's in the wrong, though, why continue?

I desperately hope to read this weekend that she has moved out. I doubt I will. She has excuses and you accept them. I fully expect that that will continue to be the case this weekend. If your kids are indeed suffering through all of this, all I can do is hope that they will come out as unscathed as possible. They are the innocents here.

Dude, seriously.

You keep insisting that your kids are 'happy'. Well of course they look fucking happy. THEY'RE KIDS.

What everyone is trying to get through your head is that YOU are the 'supposed' responsible adult in this situation. YOU are the one that is supposed to have foresight and whatnot.

What in the hell do you think you are teaching these little people?????

That *it's okay* for mommies to come and go. That it is acceptable for mommies to have their own apartment. That it is okay for mommies to do <whatever other dumb, fucked up shit that you WW has done over the past 5 kajillion pages of board space that's been used here>.

You are teaching your kids some SHIT lessons. And like I said, of course they seem *okay*....they're freaking kids. They don't know what the hell *normal* looks like. But right now, you and your WW are teaching them some pretty fucked up version of how *normal* relationships work.

Look. From one *bound and determined to do it MY way* person to another (that would be YOU). LISTEN to what everyone is saying to you.

I have been on this board for almost 18 months now and I have never....NOT ONCE....seen a person post and say "guess what guys, you were all wrong." I didn't take one lick of advice that anyone gave me. Not One. I continued to engage with him. Mistake. I was *convinced* that SI could help him, and against a very strong outpouring of *HELL NO's*...I had him join anyway. Mistake. I suspended my divorce....even though he had been actively involved with someone else up until the day that I posted that I was considering it. Again, AGAINST all of the very wise advice that I was receiving. BIGGEST MISTAKE OF THEM ALL!!!

I WAS WRONG on Every.Single.Decision that I made *on my own*.

I don't know what to think about the whole family helping your WW to move out. I, personally, think that my head would have exploded if Sultan had asked the kids to help him load up his car when he was leaving though.

Actually I DO know what I think about it. Your kids are going to know that they *helped* mommy leave so that she could live in a place away from them.

*sigh*

Like misskirby, I sincerely hope that therapist was joking. It was not a good joke though. It was so wrong...in so many ways.

I find it confusing as well, why you continually say, "Friends, thanks for the advice, but...". Every single person who has been through this with kids had been practically BEGGING you to not involve the kids in the move. It doesn't matter that they've been to the apt! It doesn't matter that they have toys there! Involving them in the "final" move out of Mommy (which I don't believe will be final, if it even happens) is SO UNBELIEVABLY CRUEL TO THE KIDS!

It sounds like you are involving the kids in the move as a way to soothe your WW or yourself.

The focus has turned to the kids, I think, because they are innocent. You have it in your power to HELP them...you have the advice of people who have BTDT....but you are choosing to add to their anguish, in one of the worst ways possible. It pains those of us with children to see you so self-absorbed that YOU WON'T PUT THEM FIRST.

And dude...if your IC was serious...find a new therapist. That is some shit advice right there.

Finally.....it's good you have a "script" to start with with the kids. Prepare to toss it out the window. Think as well as to what you'll say when they're up all night, or having panic attacks, or, worst of all, feeling guilty, hating themselves, because THEY moved Mommy out of the house.

Please don't do this to them.

I have a few thoughts I would like to share.

Having the kids help your wife move out is THE MOST RIDICULOUS AND CRUEL thing I've heard on this site in a long time. The kids need to be hearing over and over again that they did nothing wrong, and you want to have them engage in the physical act of you guys separating?? As others have suggested, for the love of God, take the kids away for the day while she moves out. If they are accustomed to this place, have some stuff there, it's not "new" or "scary" to them, why the hell would you want to subject them to physically moving her out?? You are putting WAY too much pressure on them to take this as a good thing.. Ugh, I wish I could say the right thing here to make you reconsider this..

And I'm confused why you keep focusing on telling the kids about the separation WITH your wife. Talking to your kids about this is going to be a continual process, not one little meeting between all of you and things will be fine after that. I've been separated since October, filed in November, and even tonight I was still reassuring the kids that they did nothing wrong, mommy and daddy won't be getting back together, and telling them that I will always love them. Your wife is NOT going to be there for tons of conversations in the future you will be having with your kids about this. She's not going to be there when they ask you questions or break your heart when they tell you they still wish you guys would get back together. In fact, I have a feeling she will be like my STBX and will try to alienate you from them and tell them lies to make herself not seem so bad, just as my STBX lies to my children all the damn time. "No boys, OW is just a friend. Even though she is here every time you are and you see us sleeping on the couch together, she's just a friend. It's your mom's fault we aren't together."

You need to STOP trying to do things with your wife. DETACH from her and stop trying to play "happy family." You are confusing the hell out of your children. Time for them to start learning that mommy and daddy both love them, but mommy and daddy have separate lives now and will NOT be having any more "happy family" time. They do not need you guys to do this. Perhaps they need to hear that you guys are separating, and you guys need to actually separate already, and you need to start building your own relationships with the children. Being polite co-parents is definitely an advantage, but I think playing happy family once in a while, thinking it will benefit the kids, actually confuses them more and gives them false hope. Perhaps this can happen when YOU stop having false hope..

I guess first you need to be firm in your decision about the fact that this relationship is over, and then you can start working with the kids on reassuring them that even though the relationship is over, your love for them will continue. I think you being confused about what you want is pouring over into them, making them confused about what is going on..

"Emotional trainwreck looking for someone new to whom to cling."

Ugh. No wonder everyone is so worried about the kids. They are witnessing too much of this. You need to get yourself together emotionally and make some firm decisions and focus on what YOU can do for your kids and STOP worrying about what she will or will not do.

My last thought. I think every wayward should be shown the door in the beginning. Then, they can fight like hell to get back in or walk away. This will either lead to a healthy relationship or a healthy detachment. Sounds like you are trying every trick you can think of to keep her from walking out the door, but pulling her back and "clinging" to her is NOT going to lead to a healthy relationship.. It's like you are begging for her back, even though you know it won't be a true reconciliation where she admits her faults and gives transparency and does all the work to make you trust her again. It's like you are begging her for a Rugsweep of this affair, and you're mad that she's not even willing to do that. You deserve so much better than this, and I hope continue figuring out why you are doing this, low self-esteem, co-dependency, actually believing her blameshifting and taking responsibility for her affair, whatever it is, please figure it out so you can stop letting her dictate how you feel about yourself. And you can't do that until you actually detach from her and stop listening to her about what she thinks of you..

Lots of hugs to you Abbondad. As someone said before, I admire how brave you have been to post here and open up to us about your situation, and I hope you continue. I really hope you take some of the great advice people have been giving you that have been there and done that..

Personally, I don't think his therapist meant go out and literally find someone right away. I think the meaning was to move forward beyondthe WW.

AD - You are self justifying your actions in all of this. You are making mistakes over and over. It makes me sick to think of the dysfunction you are putting on your kids as what is "normal".

You my friend seriously need a new therapist. You have some serious shit to work through before you consider EVER getting involved w/ another woman. YOU as these kids father should also be putting them first, making sure they are dealing well with it, that they understand that you will be there for them no matter what. Finding a woman to molly coddle you is not showing them that.

If you feel lonely then do something with the kids, If you feel you need adult interaction, then find a club/group/activity that you can do with other adults, and make some friends. But for the love of God, don't go looking for a lady.

Unfortunately I see this cycle of dysfunction going on and on indefinately.

Hope you find your strength soon. Your poor kids.

Your kids look happy because they don't know what normal is.

They won't know until they try to enter into a relationship as adults and screw it up...then they will go to therapy and start talking about their childhood...their IC will be shocked and most likely cry for them, for their lost childhood and for the shit they had to put up with cuz their parents were too selfish and emotionally unavailable to put them first.

Trust me, I am not saying this to be harsh, I am telling you from experience.

Stop trying to pretend your life, your divorce and your kids are sprinkled with special fairy dust....they are being broken from the inside out and it is killing most of us to watch you allow it.

[This message edited by karmahappens at 9:25 AM, May 15th (Wednesday)]

this is our second time separating. The kids were back and forth to this apartment on Coparent schedule for three months. It has been set up as a second home for them: toys, lots of their stuff. They are used to it. We have been hanging out there almost every weekend as a second home for nearly two months since she came home for false R.

You have ALL been hanging out at your WW apartment as a second home? And it is fine?

I thought you had recently discussed the kids regressing and that is why they went into therapy.

Listen stop adding ingredients to the fucked up soup. Having the kids help her move, planting the idea(by action) that the apartment is shared family space- lying to the kids whilst planning the 'together' telling. And most of all letting yourself and by extension your children be jerked around time after time after time after time. Set your timeline. Set your boundaries and Stick to it, even if you do it alone. Detach.

I believe you love your kids very much. But you have put your wife first through all of this. Now it is time to put the kids first.

For most people it isn't that big one time choice to 'die for your kids' or not. It is a million little choices. Everyone IMO, fucks up some of the small ones some times.

Can you can recognize that you have made many choices to stay in this abusive relationship in ways that are harmful to your kids? If you can start to put those decisions to rights, then I think you can start pulling out of the nose dive.

I know you feel beat up, but in 6 months you will look back on this and be appalled at what you put your kids through. Everyone is trying to get you to minimize that...

Take care of the kids and you.

Trying so hard to resist adding to this but just can't: Dad, I was that "kid" from the time I was 10 years old until I finally said FUCK this nonsense @ 19 and moved out on my own, literally with nothing but the clothes on my back and couch-surfed with friends until I saved enough for an apartment a year later. My Father worked out of State enough that at times he had his own place. We were told every lie in the book to make us think that my parent's just needed space, due to travel/work, was only temporary, blah blah blah. I remember being about 14, going to visit my Father 's appt. and needing to use the Master bathroom because the other was occupied by one of my siblings. Seeing what was clearly another female's toiletries, cosmetics, tampons( My Mother had had a complete hysterectomy several years before this so sorry if TMI but she had no need for tampons etc... I remember gasping for air, knowing damn well that he wasn't living alone. I felt so betrayed by BOTH of my parents, not just the cheater! My Mom meant well & wanted to help but was so controlled by my Father, she couldn't do much. I didn't speak to my Father for three full years after I left home. I have made my way although sadly am now dealing with infidelity, probably because I married a man who I thought, wrongly, was the polar opposite of my Father. My Father is long gone and with time I have forgiven my Mother, mostly. I believe you have a Daughter, do you want her to reach 50 years old and not believe you cared enough to put her first? I didn't think so. Not discounting your son in any way but I was that girl who's parents Fucked with my mind for nearly 10 years.. Please put your kids on the front burner! If your wife ever gets her head out of her ass, then and only then should you try to be a family. Sorry for the 2x4 but I ache for your children Dad. All the best Jamie

Trying so hard to resist adding to this but just can't: Dad, I was that "kid" from the time I was 10 years old until I finally said FUCK this nonsense @ 19 and moved out on my own, literally with nothing but the clothes on my back and couch-surfed with friends until I saved enough for an apartment a year later. My Father worked out of State enough that at times he had his own place. We were told every lie in the book to make us think that my parent's just needed space, due to travel/work, was only temporary, blah blah blah. I remember being about 14, going to visit my Father 's appt. and needing to use the Master bathroom because the other was occupied by one of my siblings. Seeing what was clearly another female's toiletries, cosmetics, tampons( My Mother had had a complete hysterectomy several years before this so sorry if TMI but she had no need for tampons etc... I remember gasping for air, knowing damn well that he wasn't living alone. I felt so betrayed by BOTH of my parents, not just the cheater! My Mom meant well & wanted to help but was so controlled by my Father, she couldn't do much. I didn't speak to my Father for three full years after I left home. I have made my way although sadly am now dealing with infidelity, probably because I married a man who I thought, wrongly, was the polar opposite of my Father. My Father is long gone and with time I have forgiven my Mother, mostly. I believe you have a Daughter, do you want her to reach 50 years old and not believe you cared enough to put her first? I didn't think so. Not discounting your son in any way but I was that girl who's parents Fucked with my mind for nearly 10 years.. Please put your kids on the front burner! If your wife ever gets her head out of her ass, then and only then should you try to be a family. Sorry for the 2x4 but I ache for your children Dad. All the best Jamie

Mod please, sorry for the double post:(

I wish I didn't have to pile more on you Abbondad, but I do.

You keep trying to convince us that your kids are fine and that you and WW are "playing happy family." Do you really believe the bullshit you are spewing here? You honestly think your kids can't sense the tension in the air? You don't think they pick up on the emotions you two claim to be so valiantly trying to smother.

Please. Pull your head out of your ass for one minute please. Your kids are seeing counselors. They are on anti-anxiety medication. And you still delude yourself (and try to delude US) into thinking that they are just fine. You and Mommy can sit down calmly and gently break the news to them. Then the "happy family" will all help Mommy move to her swinging singles pad.

I have asked you before. PLEASE. STOP. THE. CRAZY. You are emotionally and psychologically TORTURING YOUR CHILDREN!!!! YOU ARE FUCKING THEM UP WORSE THAN YOU AND WW ARE!!!!

For the love of dustbunnies, PLEASE STOP.

Stop lying to your children.

Stop lying to yourself.

Tell them what is going on. Tell them NOW. Do not wait for their mother to be there. I guarantee you (I will bet actual cash money) that she will end up doing something stupid and dramatic and fucking those kids up even more. And you will react and pile more torture on the poor little mites.

Honest to Pete, the kindest thing that could happen to your kids right now is the CPS comes and takes them away! I mean it!

Poster after poster after poster has BEGGED you to stop fucking up your kids. And you keep coming back over and over with "Thanks for the advice, but..." But nothing. But you are just going to keep on fucking up your children because you are a fucked up selfish bastard who claims he would give his life for his kids, but you won't give them something tangible and much more valuable. Sanity. Peace. Safety.

Dude. Seriously. This is bad. I ache for those kids. I honestly and truly do.

I went back to edit this because I was afraid I was too harsh with the selfish fucked up part, but I just can't take it back. My heart breaks for you. It really does. Your suffering is very real. I've BTDT. Honestly! I wrote the damn book on how NOT to handle this with your kids. PLEASE LEARN from my mistakes. Please. I am trying to help. I promise.

[This message edited by CheaterMagnet at 8:40 PM, May 15th (Wednesday)]