SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

BeyondRage, you've got your shit together despite bring in a traumatic situation. It's admirable.

Your plan is sound and your decisions are thoughtful. Keep it up and keep taking care of yourself.

[This message edited by Trdd at 10:09 PM, September 13th (Friday)]

Trdd

Thanks. I may or may not have my shit together. I guess that depends on who is responding. I am doing what I feel is right for me and I believe I have more concrete documented information that most BH I see here

King Rat

Same for consequences. I might be able to buy into this destroy her entire world immediately if she was refusing to stop the affair, breaking NC, working with AP, or refusing transparency. For Christ’s sake she voluntarily handed over her journal . Now if she flunks the polygraph maybe I re evaluate . And that polygraph will not happen right away because I want it to be a surprise and to wait for the shock of all this to subside . My call on that one

Friday night we went to our local high school football game with some friends whose boy plays and whose older son dated one of my girls for a little bit. It was nice to get away from work, exercise, and all this crap for an evening.

Yesterday we sat and talked . I can’t remember the last time we talked so much as recently. We also watched two You Tube videos by a woman Esther Perel. The one on infidelity was pretty informative if you get over the fact that she has a rep of being pro non monogamy

My wife travels Wednesday night. Quite honestly I’m more concerned about if years ago when she was doing a lot of GNO than I am about next week

Perel is the last person you want your freshly caught WW listening to. She blames the marriage, the BS, and romanticizes affairs.

Hi BR,

Esther Perel has an angle on infidelity that does not sit well with a lot of betrayed spouses, but there is no harm in listening to what she says, and taking from it whatever you choose. We all have enough intelligence to listen to something and think, "Bullsh*t!" if it strikes us that way.

In YouTube, do a search for 'Gottman'. There are lots of talks and interviews on there, and Dr John Gottman has his own website and therapy program that people here have said works. He arguably takes a more objective stance on infidelity and what can be done afterwards to fix things.

Be cautious about Esther Perel.

A book entitled, Not Just Friends, by Shirley Glass is highly recommended.

Also, How to Help Your Spouse Heal from an Affair by Linda MacDonald.

rel is a freaking fraud. She is just a woman who has excellent speaking skills. she is not in anyway educated in the field of psychology. Go check out her credentials then decide if she is worthy of listening to.

We also watched two You Tube videos by a woman Esther Perel. The one on infidelity was pretty informative if you get over the fact that she has a rep of being pro non monogamy

I would advise against reading/watching anything from this woman.

Adulterers like her because she tries to provide excuses and justifications for their behavior.

Her “philosophy” is aligned more with the Hollywood/entertainment industry version of infidelity being the result of a tyrannical BS, a “bad” marriage, or some other worthless, responsibility-avoiding bullshit excuse that caused the adulterer to “run into someone else’s arms” and fulfill some dire “need” that the BS wasn’t fulfilling.

No matter what Esther Perel says, no matter what any adulterer says, and no matter what any one else says, your wife's adultery had nothing to do with you or your marriage.

It was not because of anything you did or did not do, nor because of anything you said or did not say.

There was nothing you could have done to prevent her infidelity because it had nothing to do with you.

When I was married, my decision to be faithful to my wife had nothing to do with my wife.

And, had I made the decision to be unfaithful to my wife, that decision would have had nothing to do with my wife.

We each own our integrity. Period.

Agree that Esther Perel isn‘t maybe the best place to seek guidance.

A lot of what she says is based on “truths” (as far as there are any truths in human interactions and behaviors), but I think a lot of her deductions and conclusions are off.

For one I think that there is NEVER EVER a good reason to deduct that a betrayed spouses’ actions (or lack of actions) led to the affair. If we were to accept that as true, there isn’t any way we can establish any level of hope of the WS not cheating again. Like, if something you did made it inevitable that your WW had the affair, then what can you do to prevent something you might do in the future from making her have to have another affair? Let’s say you forget to buy milk on the way home; would that explain why she has to offer the mailman a hand-job?

Our actions (or lack of actions) can DEFINITELY impact a marriage and the spouse’s interest in remaining in the marriage, but all it does is give whatever grievance they might have more weight. The decision to cheat is always the wrong decision, not matter the underlying reasons.

“Honey – You drink too much. You need to stop drinking and give me a plan on how you intend to remain sober because I don’t want to be in a marriage with a man who is a drunkard” would be a great statement from a wife that worries about her husbands drinking. Arranging a play-date with Joe in marketing would neither decrease husbands drinking nor help the marriage.

Infidelity improve a marriage?

No way!

What can happen is that changes made after d-day as part of reconciliation can lead to a better marriage.

It’s sort of like if you live an unhealthy life and your arteries clog up. When recovering in the ICU you might decide to change your lifestyle. Over the next years you eat healthy, run, lift weights and do yoga. Eventually you are in better form than ever. At that point you wouldn’t be telling people that the path to a healthy lifestyle was to eat unhealthily and get your arteries clogged, but rather the hard work you did once you made the change.

It’s that way with reconciliation. If done properly it’s an ongoing process that creates better and stronger individuals working towards a joint goal and thereby a stronger marriage. But the simple fact is that any couple could do this without one (or both) having an affair.

Like I said he’s going to be OK with it.

Beyond rage what help do you want? Do you just wanna come here and vent every now and then? By all means vent a way. This is your wife’s dream come true she got to be with two other men and you’re party blaming yourself for it.

Your wife will cheat again if you keep going down the path you are right now.

So let me see if I have this straight. Your wife gets intrigued by her girlfriend who’s in an open marriage.

Instead of coming to you and talking with you about this idea of hers she keeps it to herself. She knows you and thinks that you would never allow her to be in an open marriage.

She goes behind your back and cheats with two men doing sexual acts in front of them and having sex with them at times. No guilt no remorse she had fun and enjoyed it.

When you catch her by accident, you’re mad as hell send her packing to her parents house for a few days.

You get over your rage and now you consider yourself lucky because you have her journal and she’s being honest with you.

Now the two of you are having normal dates going to football games on Friday night.

She should’ve come to you in the beginning and asked to be a hot wife. I say she could’ve talk to you into it in about a month or two.

I bet your wife starts talking to you about an open marriage at some point in the future. Then again, she could’ve learned her lesson this time around and knows better than to leave evidence the next time.

Agree that Esther Perel isn‘t maybe the best place to seek guidance.

A lot of what she says is based on “truths” (as far as there are any truths in human interactions and behaviors), but I think a lot of her deductions and conclusions are off.

Bigger,

I am not in disagreement. I believe she is divorced four times, and is not hostile to non monogamy. That does not mean that EVERYTHING she says has no truth and in the You Tube she just states that marriage today contains some things where people are looking for one partner to fill long term needs that are exact opposite of each other. She did not say that that means its OK to cheat but is trying to explain it. And like her or not she has sold a lot of books and draws large crowds or women.

Bottom line is just like here you take what you can use and leave the rest.

Just my opinion, but when it all breaks down, it still amounts to

I had the opportunity

I wanted to

I din't think I would get caught

No matter what the circumstances.

And again just my opinion, but all these "why's that are unmasked, every one could be matched by the statement someone put on here to me

Thousands of WW/WH have the same situation and choose not to cheat.

In Not Just Friends, I believe it says affairs by women have a smaller chance of R. You can see why here.

Not too many men, ONCE SEX IS CUT OFF, blow their chance of R by insisting on "being friends", pining, or refusing to get AP out of their lives. Notice I said once they get no more sex.

Yet there is story after story of women doing just that, asking why they can't remain friends, or just being unable to emotionally detach.

Too bad everyone can't read the book when they get married. When one of our spouses get involved in an activity that takes a lot of time away, bonding with groups of opposite sex, we do not think in terms like infidelity. But right after the workplace she mentions exactly that.

I believe I have a pretty accurate account of what happened, how it progressed, and my WW thoughts firsthand. In a sense I am not playing guessing game.

But none of us have crystal ball, and I am sure if I wrote it all out in my words, I would get the same distinctly opposite thoughts from a whole bunch of posters.

I think I am ahead of the curve because I do not have a WW still pining or trying to go underground , of which there is an abundance of threads here. Trouble could still be out there, but everyone can make that statement.

Smoked,

I thought it was OK to vent on this forum. I understand you have this all figured out so please fell free to continue to vent yourself.

Every time you post its the same thing.

I am sorry you are so frustrated with my refusal YET to go for total vengeance. If you are correct, I will come back and apologize to you.

The saying here that I keep reading is "trust you gut". I am doing that along with a shitload of information more than some BH take years to get.

You seem to be dedicated more to trying to goad me and mock me rather than help. But thats OK.

Unless some so far undisclosed information comes to light, at which point I might follow your advice, I am going to be vigilent, verify if I need to, do a polygraph, and if successful attempt to R. The ball is in her court.

And lastly. I have asked her more times in the last few weeks than you have fingers on her hand if she wants to talk about "open marriage".

She has NOT taken the bait. But I know, you KNOW she eventually will.

Hope you are wrong. If you are right, then the ball goes to my court.

Time will bring you a lot more clarity. It always does. It's early and you will be up and down maybe sideways.

You are correct this doesn't show it was a love affair with a lot of attachment.

What about you? What about your desires? Would you want a one-way open marriage, the way your WW had?

I’m just trying to get to look at it from a different point of view outside of the box that you’re in right now.

Your wife cheated because she wanted to. She was able to do it without guilt or remorse because of low morals. Here’s an example if you were given the chance to do what your wife did would you have? And if the answer is no, Then it’s because of who you are on the inside saying this is morally wrong I am married I am not supposed to have sex with anyone other than my wife.

I think it’s great that you have all this information from your wife’s journal. I’m glad you’re able to see how and why it happened. I’m glad your wife’s been a open book since she’s came home.

I’ve been married for 31 years and as far as I know my wife has never cheated on me. Could she have, yes she had the opportunity. I was in the military for six years and deployed for over a year during that time. I have seen several people cheat in my lifetime and it always boiled down to they didn’t have the moral fortitude to say no or not to do it.

I believe both parties in a marriage are responsible for the health of the marriage. The cheater alone is responsible for their actions. If they’re not getting what they need in the marriage then talk to the spouse about it or divorce. There is never an excuse to cheat.

But unless I’m reading this wrong the only thing you have going to keep it from happening again is your wife’s word that she won’t do it. Unless I’ve missed something.

[This message edited by Smoked at 5:54 PM, September 15th (Sunday)]

I also believe it’s perfectly fine to come to forms like this and blow off steam and to vent when needed. Actually typing it out I believe helps in relieving the rage or stress that one feels.

Smoked, if you've been married for 31 years, and your wife hasn't cheated on you, then why are you here? Are you a WS? A betrayed child?

Striver

What about you? What about your desires? Would you want a one-way open marriage, the way your WW had?

I honestly do not understand why there is this fixation on open marriage. Her friend was in an open marriage. We are not and have never been.

Can you please point me to a thread where a WW is cheating, and not telling her husband, that you would also not describe as an open marriage one sided?

Smoked

I’m just trying to get to look at it from a different point of view outside of the box that you’re in right now.

Your wife cheated because she wanted to. She was able to do it without guilt or remorse because of low morals.

Seems like there is a merry go round on the remorse thing here. Those that say their spouse has remorse are told its way too early for that and its regret.

I think it’s great that you have all this information from your wife’s journal. I’m glad you’re able to see how and why it happened. I’m glad your wife’s been a open book since she’s came home.

How does this compare with what the majority do. No TT, gaslighting, blaming.

But unless I’m reading this wrong the only thing you have going to keep it from happening again is your wife’s word that she won’t do it. Unless I’ve missed something.

What exactly is a guarantee. There are NO guarantees. You and anyone else will be a zillionaire when you write the book on absolute guarantees.

And by destroying two families and extended families is a certain guarantee???

I gotta go. My immoral and worthless WWas you would say will be home from volunteering at our local hospice caring for dying people in a few minutes

Striver, you remind me of Catholic priests talking about marriage and raising children ...

You’ve never dealt with infidelity and you’re providing advice and strategies to those who are going through it. I don’t get it. Do you have qualifications in marriage counselling or psychology?

BeyondRage, you’re doing well. Keep at it. I think your wife is doing what needs to be done and is responding well. I think you have a great chance to R.

[This message edited by Mene at 6:50 PM, September 15th (Sunday)]

Seems like there is a merry go round on the remorse thing here. Those that say their spouse has remorse are told its way too early for that and its regret.

If someone is in JFO and they really did just find out, it's way too early for their WS to have hit true remorse. That can take a very long time.

Regret? Sure

Remorse? No way

BeyondRage:

Just my opinion, but when it all breaks down, it still amounts to

I had the opportunity

I wanted to

I din't think I would get caught

No matter what the circumstances.

Truth. You said it. Truth.

Mene, do you mean Striver or Smoked. My question too, Hellfire.