SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hello,

I have been reading this thread from it's first page, and I wanted to say thank you for it. My WW is an alcoholic. She can't seem to cope with everyday life very well. It is killing me to see her engage in such self destructive behavior. I have learned a lot from reading here and another website on addiction. I don't know how to help her want to quit. She was drinking regularly a few years before her A. She has an addictive personality, makes excuses for her behavior, blames and justifies to no end. We did have a tragedy in our family about a year ago. She was an alcoholic before and it just went further downhill since. We have been married for 17 years and it breaks my heart to see her killing herself. Before addiction, she was a great person to be around, now, me and the kids just avoid her when she is drinking. It makes our family incomplete. I want to help her quit, she says she knows she has a problem. She only drinks once or twice a week now, and she is ok with that, since it is not as much. I'm not ok with "just not as much", I want her to quit altogether and not have an addiction to anything. I want her to be healthy. So do the kids.

I guess that's just where I'm at. Thanks for letting me share.

((1owner))

My heart goes out to you. I believe my exWH was a functioning alcoholic so I know the pain you are in.

A's use anger & anxiety to control us to enable their drinking. Also

addiction and infidelity go hand in hand. It is also very possible she was an alcoholic before you even met...they can hide it very well. The abuse you suffer as the spouse is so painful and they don't see it until long after they get sober if they ever do.

Try AlAnon and post here. I wish this thread was more active because I believe it is a major cause of infidelity, narcissistic behavior and more.

Please continue to post..I will try to keep my eye on this thread if you need a listening ear.

Lowner-

I understand how you feel... you and your children want her sober- 100% sober.

Drinking a few times per week is not sobriety and the fear is always there that she can go down that slippery slope again.

Unfortunately, there's not much you can do.

She needs to want to stop drinking.

Until then she will make excuses and continue to make deals with the devil-saying that just a few drinks a few times per week is not a problem.

In my FWH's case- he finally got sober after I kicked him out after d-day.

That was hitting bottom for him.

It's different for everyone.

You can try to raise the bottom up for your WW by not enabling her or protecting her.

If she gets drunk and things happen-let her have the natural consequences.

For example- don't make excuses to friends or family on her behalf, don't cover for her if she is late for work due to her drinking etc.

In addition to living with my FWH who was a functional alcoholic for our entire marriage...I also grew up with an alcoholic mother. It is not fun for kids.

How would your WW react to an intervention? with you, the kids, and other family members?

I recommended some books (earlier in this thread)that were helpful for me in understanding addictive personalities.

The Addictive Personality by Craig Naaken and Reclaiming Your Family From Addiction by Craig Naaken.

Also an older book that gave me some Aha...moments... 'Marriage On the Rocks' by Woititz.

One of the lines surprised me... about how common infidelity is among alcoholics... I don't know why I didn't realize this was a real possibility for my FWH... I just thought that was not something he would ever do. I realize now that it is a natural progression for someone with an addictive personality.

Is your WW in IC? Did you make sobriety one of your demands for reconciling after finding out about the infidelity?

I agree with Jersey CG- It's a shame that this thread is not more active because alcohol/addictions are problems for so many that find themselves here on SI.

For that reason I do try to check in and offer support as well.

Can you tell me the theory behind alcohol and affairs as going hand in hand? I just want to be able to articulate and understand the reasoning. I guess I can see how alcohol can be a glue for affair partners. Hell, my exWH started out as my drinking buddy back when I could drink, back when I was in grad school and it was part of the culture. I grew up and stopped when jobs, kids, and homes came into play. Even if he stopped, it became clear after a while that he didn't want to. He would just substitute it with food, then gambling, then I suppose OW. He's still with her and I wonder if she's just another dysfunctional addiction for him??

I wonder if she's just another dysfunctional addiction for him?

Most likely.

Can you tell me the theory behind alcohol and affairs

Sadly, it does happen but not for many of them. If they do not deal with the primary addiction for themselves and with brutal honesty, the addiction moves on to something else. Example: Alcohol to prescription drugs, to gambling, to food, to exercise, to sex . . . Without being brutally honest with self the addiction changes.

1owner

My WH was a functioning alcoholic for much of our 25 yr M. He drank at home every night but his tolerance was so high that he did not come across as visibly intoxicated. He did however pass out each night as he sat drinking wine. I accused him many times of being an alcoholic but he denied it, never listened, and continued drinking. It was the cause of a number of arguments. I was disgusted with the example that he was setting for our children, and let him know that. I do not drink and I did NOT want to be M to an alcoholic. My *bitching* never made a difference. He continued to drink because he wanted to.

While in MC I was told that I should have left him. Arguing, begging, pleading (I don't beg or plead) will not cause the alcoholic to change, they need to WANT to change. My leaving may have caused my WH to hit rock bottom. It could have been the catalyst for change.

10/29/10 Dday, my WH hit rock bottom. He had his last drink on that day. Sober 3+ years.

If I could go back in time I would have done as the MC stated and filed for D. My WH 100% believes that would have been a huge wake up call and he would have stopped drinking.

You can't help your WW quit, she must want to quit. You can support her through the addiction recovery process ~ if she decides to begin that journey.

BTW: One of the 1st question my WH asked MOW, "Do you drink?" During their A MOW was arrested for a DUI. Yes, she drinks!

[This message edited by RidingHealingRd at 1:13 AM, January 26th (Sunday)]

1owner: Someone suggested alanon,, and this is how it worked in my first marriage -- he was an alcoholic and no one could get him to stop drinking. I went to alanon. Within 6 months he quit drinking, went into a treatment facility and began a new life/lifestyle. I was told in Alanon that WHEN he got into a program of recovery he would out grow me if I were not also involved in a support group, because they change SO much and SO fast when they take ahold of a new meaning to their lives. This was true. The man who spent 100 a week on beer suddenly began following me around the house turning off lights behind me to save money. He had a whole new set of "friends" I didn't know and he needed to be with them to stay sober. I only had to tell him something once and he remembered it, and got angry when I would repeat myself over and over - what I had had to do for 7 years! Anyway, there were good things, too, but you get the picture.

My first alanon meeting a lady said that usually an alcolic will become sober about 6 months after the person closest to the alcoholic gets into alanon - but they can't guarantee it.I laughed and said you are crazy. This guy drinks and passes out in the car in the driveway with the engine running. He's had 3 DUIs. He can't remember hollering at me for 2 solid hours while he is drunk. There is NO hope for this guy. She gently said, "As long as the drinker is alive, there is hope, and our program will help you find the hope again, and possibly a success story."

The program has so many sucess stories vs the 0 successs I had had on my own dealing with the alcoholic, I decided to stay for 6 months- 1 meeting a week and absorb what I was hearing about from the ones in the meeting whose spouses DID become sober. I started to see the shift in my responses to the drinking and that is what led him to get help-- plus with all the "experts" in the meetings, I knew right where to send him when he was really ready for help. Do you know where to take your wife the next time she says she needs help?

The meetings are free, and you don't have to talk.

THere are probably meetings for men only-- there were several husbands/fathers in the groups.

Anyway, I know Alanon isn't for everyone, but it helped me. Like they say at the meetings, "What do you really have to lose by attending 1 meeting a week?"

To SucksToBeMe

Drinking regularly for a long time damages the NeoCortex part of the brain. That is where you make your decisions. Also A's can occur during blackouts and also because alcoholics have a mentality that they are perfect and can do anything

To RidingHealingRd & Home wrecked

So happy your H's quit. Mine never admitted a problem & I'm sure this was the root of all our problems

Can you tell me the theory behind alcohol and affairs as going hand in hand?

It is not uncommon for an alcoholic to have an affair. As someone else stated it is more to do with their self-centered attitude of an alcoholic, possible blackouts and the "i can get away with anything" attitude.

However, the A cannot and should not be blamed on alcohol. My parents have been sober for over 50 years combined. I grew up in the programs (didn't stop me from marrying an alcoholic though!), but I was unsure if being an alcoholic caused him to have an A.

Both my parents said that being an alcoholic is not an excuse for having an A. It can be a contributing factor, but it is not the reason why he had an A. That is like blaming the alcohol for beating your children. Not all alcoholics are violent and not all of them commit infidelity.

Neither of my parents had an A. Actually, both in previous marriages has WS who were not alcoholics. I honestly find it more common for the spouse of an alcoholic to be unfaithful, because they are miserable then the alcoholic.

Okay. Sorry. Soapbox moment over!

[This message edited by silentscream13 at 8:50 AM, January 26th (Sunday)]

My X, who is still drinking, blamed me for all the woes in his life. This was his excuse for the drinking and also became his excuse for cheating. That's the link that I see.

Al-Anon works wonders in my life. My leaving my marriage did not result in a rock-bottom moment for my X. I still attend Al-Anon because it helps me to deal with my life in a better way.

Thanks everyone!

I can see now that my WW's biggest issue is addiction personality. I can also see that it runs in her family. Her addiction happens to be alcohol, and we have suffered the damaging effects of it.

I couldn't give anyone the scientific reasons for alcoholism and infidelity being a matched pair, but I can tell you in my situation I have witnessed it. She used to have such disdain for cheating and infidelity. I want her to recover more than anything. I have gotten her to go to counseling a few times. She has not been motivated to continue going.

I have also been blamed for all of my WW's problems. That must be common to all addictions.

Thanks all!

I couldn't give anyone the scientific reasons for alcoholism and infidelity being a matched pair, but I can tell you in my situation I have witnessed it. She used to have such disdain for cheating and infidelity.

1owner: My WH was acted the same way up until the day he cheated. Still acted like that two days before he got caught cheating. I honestly think alcoholism did help change his thinking, but I also believe that there are more deep-rooted issues that led to the infidelity. Alcohol contributes, but it is not the cause.

Al-Anon works wonders in my life. My leaving my marriage did not result in a rock-bottom moment for my X. I still attend Al-Anon because it helps me to deal with my life in a better way.

Compartmented:

Absolutely agree. My WH is newly sober. Believe it or not, it is actually harder than when he drank. Al-Anon has been a life saver for me. (I had grown-up attending Alateen). Without even intending to, Al-Anon is also helping me deal with my WH's infidelity.

Hello all, I was in an 18 yr marriage with an A that was very high functioning. Never missed a day of work, was and is a serious workaholic..60-80 hours a week, and was not abusive or the staggering drunk that people picture. Instead he just became "unavailable". He would sit in the garage and drink easily a case of beer a day on the weekends if he was not working..a 6 pack during the week. Did not participate in our marriage or the kids or anything else for that matter.

after 15 yrs of crying begging nagging him to stop drinking, I moved out of our home with our son. He had left before 3 times to go on his drinking binges and not get nagged, I had always let him come back. Once we had our son he didn't leave again but just sat in the garage and drank. When I left he started taking prescription pills (I did not find out about this until after the D was final)

After about 2 months he decided he couldn't live with out us and we actively started working on what we were going to do to put our family back together. Of course my deal breaker was he had to stop drinking. He entered an out patient 18 month program and started AA full boar. 4 nights a week and the program. He became a different man, very involved and spent every night at our house with us after work. started being available for school functions like never before. but I didn't trust him and was not over eager to just jump back into it with out a lot of work. He kept saying he was working on himself and wanted me to be patient.

4 months before his graduation from the 18 month program I caught him in our bed (remember I had moved out..he had stayed in the family home) with another woman. He said he wanted a divorce and nothing I said or did would change his mind. He showed no remorse..as soon as I caught them he immediantly started making it very public..we lost the house and he moved within 4 blocks of us and made no attempt at hiding his relationship with her even though our teenage son had no idea. He stopped attending AA. She drinks and he keeps beer for her in his house. Even after our son found out about the situation and would tell his dad that it bothered him that she drank in front of him, he continued to have the beer in his house. After I caught him with her his story totally changed.. I bailed on him when he needed me, I was always trying to change him and she liked him for who he is, I was never ever there for him...I was the cause of his drinking he could not be with me and be sober. He went from Im sorry for what I put my family through and Im so thankful you are giving me the chance, I don't want to loose my family you guys are the most important thing to me...he even got the AA saying about sobriety family god etc..tattooed on his arm,to his new story.

Fast forward..its 2 1/2 years. He has 4 years sober just this past Feb. We are divorced and he is still with her. Because of his behavior the year after I caught them we moved out of state. He cut off all contact with my 2 older sons who he raised from very young ages and was constantly putting this woman before his son, although of course he denies that. He would lie on his weekend and say he had to work to spend it with her. He forced her on our son which in turn made him resent her even more..son started acting out getting in trouble with drugs and the law. He would go months and months with out even seeing our son and when there was trouble I would call him and he would refuse to get involved and co parent with me.

We have very little contact..he claims he is the victim. He goes back and forth between telling me he does and always will love me and "our" boys to hating me. He has no friends, just this woman and her grown kids who he seems very involved with. He doesn't understand why our son will not work on a relationship with him.

I am shocked that this is how it all ended...I really never saw this scenario at all...many other ones but not this one.

I keep hoping one day he is going to wake up and at the very least try to repair the relationship with his only son. But I see no proof that it will ever happen.

Stuck, I hear you. I have a frog in my throat because your story moved me to tears. I don't have much advice to offer except he sounds like a dry drunk. He has maintained behaviors from his active drinking days (such as selfishness, denial, dishonesty) even if he isn't actually drinking. His period of embracing real sobriety probably gave you hope that he was on a journey to change his life.

As it was said up thread, there is something about booze and cheating that go hand in hand for many reasons. I have also heard with some frequency that recently sober folks often stray - they are replacing one addiction with another.

Thanks Rockymtn..I did think he was actually going to make the big change, I think that has been the hardest thing to get over. Seeing that he actually was capable of being all the man I thought he could be, the involved dad, the attentive husband...It really was like a dream come true. Sometimes I regret not excepting it, I was bitter and didn't really respond the way I should have or the way he wanted. 15 years living with an alcoholic does something to your trust and I didn't trust him.

Maybe if I had responded differently he wouldn't have gone looking somewhere else. I will always wonder and regret that.

His favorite saying through all of this is "It is what it is" I could punch someone in the throat every time I hear that now.

He told me last night that all the drinking he did during our marriage was my fault.

because I "allowed it". I put up with him and didnt leave him many,, many years ago.

When we met he was already an alcoholic, but somehow, that equates to be my fault.

This spells the end of the line for me. There will be no haeling, no recovery. 3 years of false r, thinking he may own his shit and deal with it.

Instead, he still blames me. I suppose he is right. By sticking by him (wanted to give my kids the chance and stability i never had) and not leaving, always having false hope we would make it, i was enabling him.

Still enabling him by giving him a second chance after his betrayal. He isnt going to stop drinking, there is no rock bottom for him, just moving on to the next one.

He reminds me of a mosquito, draining life blood out of me.

I feel foolish, repeating this pattern after dday, thinking we could fix it. Instead I find I'm still the one working the hardest to fix something that never was.

Not so sad though, this has been coming such a long time. I've known a long time there would not be a successful R.

Just empty inside. Resigned. My mind is boggled that after 27 years, he still blames me for all the problems in our marriage. This is so dysfuctional. I know for sure I have to end it and stop his free ride.

I know he'll quickly move on, he's already BTDT. I'll struggle, mourn my loss, my youth and my failed marriage.

The good part I guess, my kids are now grown. I wont have to worry about single parenthood. I know thatt makes it so much harder.

No real question here, just processing my thoughts. Thank you for any who read this.

Oh Kiki, I am waiting to get to that point. 3 trips to rehab, this last one culminated with an A with a married woman from rehab. I believe they substituted drinking and drugs with the rush of an affair. How nice for them. I'm so tired of holding it together for everyone. I've found my way back to al anon. I have to get to a point where I can give up on him if he lets me down again. Since it seems to be an inevitability.

Hi! I'm new here. My wife of 12 years, is in AA actively working her steps. She entered rehab in May of last year after about two years of hell. She relapsed after about 5 months being sober. We are now into 3 months of being sober again, and really embracing the program. As you can imagine serious damage was done to our marriage. I detached during the drinking, became an emotional wreck. I was hopeful, cautious and vigilant. Had to keep moving for the kids. We have a 5 year old and an 8 year old that are busy. With the help of her family as well as mine, I was able to get trough the 6 weeks of rehab, visit her and attended a family session at her rehab. It was helpful. When she came home from her 6 week stay, we reconnected to some degree but something was missing. Her first round with AA, she didn't really give herself to the process. Didn't get a sponsor and relapsed. She has this time given everything to AA and is attending up to 6 meetings a week, working with her sponsor and emotionally disconnected from me. I recently found out that for the last 3 to 4 months she is having and emotional affair with a man she met at her meetings. They hold hands, occasionally kissed. I found out because my 8 year old saw a text message from this guy and told me. When I confronted her, she came clean. He's married, older and has been sober a bit longer. Through standard investigation I found out his number, I asked him very respectfully to give us room and stay away. She committed to cease contact, and I scheduled a meeting with a marriage counselor. We attended our first session, she said she was going to try but had little faith we could work it out. Admitted to me she was in love with this other guy. The very next day she attended the same meeting with this guy came home and told me she couldn't be married to me anymore. Now, I somehow was able to detach from her during the drinking, and I'm sure that did damage to our marriage. She blames some of the drinking on our relationship, and that she wasn't that happy. I get it, but alcoholism runs in her family. Her mother left her father for another man while drinking. I decided I had to make 1 last stand, tell her how I feel. I adore and lover her with all my soul, my feelings haven't changed. I explained that it's not fair that she spills her fears, releases her demons to a group of people at AA and not with me. I never had the chance to connect to her emotionally the way she has with this man. He knows her weaknesses, her strengths and now her feelings for me. After I spilled my guts and tears she has again ceased contact with him, and change her meetings and sponsor to avoid him. His wife reached out to me, asked to let her know if I hear anything. Maybe this has gone to far, I'm not sure. She says she can only try to love me again, and can't promise anything but that. Should I begin to let go here or keep at it. I'm completely broken emotionally and trying to let the affair not get in the way. 2nd counseling session this week. Any advice would be appreciate.

Thanks!

The man I dated last year is an alcoholic. The relationship failed for various reasons, and his drinking was certainly a big part of it.

There was not a day he did not drink at least something, there were episodes when he blacked out, challenged people to fight, destroyed his laptop, made a scene with me in a restaurant.

This man came back into my life a while ago. He showed me his sober side, made promises that the drinking had stopped, just the occasional beer and mimosa here and there. Had me believe him as he was just drinking non-alcoholic beer when I was around. Then he slipped back into a beer and a mimosa here and there, or maybe an Irish coffee. He seemed to handle it ok and so I put on my blinders and let it slide. I actually joined him with my glass of wine or beer or two or three. It started to become difficult to control myself around him.

One night we went out together and we both drank after we had promised ourselves just to stay for a little while and not to drink. He drove us back to my place - hell, it was just a couple of miles down the road, what could happen? He barely could drive straight and as I was sitting in his car I had anxiety, panic and anger at him and myself rise in my like I have never known it. It hit me full force how irresponsible and pathetic we both were. When we finally arrived at my house he came inside - barely able to walk straight, not coherent. I told him to crash on the couch to sleep it off and asked him to give me his keys. He wouldn't and got mad a me, storming out of the house, falling on the outside stairs, bruising his tailbone, driving home. He did not remember any of it the next day.

I sat him down, we talked, I shared with him how I was afraid that I was starting to go down the same path to addiction and that I was so ashamed and scared of my behavior that night that I was not going to drink anymore at all and was going to seek help if needed. I turned to AA and my pastor and was open with my friends that they needed to keep me honest about this. He shook my hand on it, that he would do the same and would support me 100%. He would turn in his membership card at the Legion, his hang out place which would always get him in trouble, would seek out help and stop.

A week after that, I met him for dinner. He smelled of alcohol. At dinner he had a beer. After that a Margarita, and he asked for another one but the bar had already closed at the restaurant. I sat there with my soda and watched.

The next day, a holiday, I was invited to friends for dinner and went with my DDs. He decided to go to the Legion, where he drank beer and shots, shared my private text messages with others and encouraged joined acquaintances to message me to encourage me to come and join. This, after 12 hours earlier he had told me he would stay away from the bars, would rent a movie and stay home. When I challenged him on why he was down there he texted me: 'I am not waiting around for you to be free, I am a the Legion with my friends, I am not drunk, I am just having fun.' In the meantime I had checked with the bar tender who is a friend and he confirmed that shots were being ordered....

So, I ended what had barely begun again right there. I feel an enormous amount of guilt for abandoning him upon the first glitch, but I am afraid I will end up in an endless cycle of a few weeks of sobriety and then a major relapse. I am afraid I will go down that path as well unless I extract myself from the situation.

He is texting me and leaving me voicemails, going back and forth between being angry with me and promising change. I have started to delete them without listening and am considering blocking him all together.

Please tell me I did the right thing.

Please tell me I did the right thing.

It sounds to me like you did! The drinking and driving thing is so dangerous. With an alcoholic you have to look at actions. He says he is going to stop the drinking, but his actions tell you he is not. If he ever sobers up and works on himself, you'll notice the difference.

Hang in there! And good for you for checking out AA! The people there are courageous...the ones working the program, that is. Those sitting there for their signed attendance slip for the courts...not so much.