SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I'm coming back to this thread to say how happy I am that Al-Anon is in my life! It got me through a horribly rough time, and now I love going! I love being happy and peaceful and knowing that when X lobs something at me, I can call a person from Al-Anon to talk things through, and go to a few extra meetings to get myself back to feeling on an even keel. I'm ever so grateful!

Keep trying different meetings until you find one that you click with and then keep going, even if it seems like progress is slow. It is a "gentle" program, and you can sit and listen for as long as you want, or jump in to share your woes. People are so amazingly supportive, because they've "been there."

Hugs!

I did try al-anon. It was many years ago. (I went thru a confusing time once I had my own children. I realized how neglected I had been. Crazy, but if its all you knew, you had nothing to compare. You just survive). It didnt work for me. I was uncomfortable with strangers hugging me and pouring out way too much personal info in first seconds. I dont like to be touched by strangers. I have no trust. I dont believe they love me in 2 seconds. I dont think they are after anything, the trust just ends if I cant believe their words. I tried counseling after the A, I am very stuck. She didnt seem to think I had any issues after life with alcoholics. She was suprised, but said I was very normal and balanced. I am now considering another therapist. I thought I had given up on therapy, but stuck gets old. I realize thru this A after 30 years of marriage, my issues are hindering my healing. But I also know, everyone has issues and everyone has trouble coping with A..... I just cannot believe my H has turned into an alcoholic. We spent so much time apart due to his work, I just didnt see it. He was always trying to be a good dad when home. I am feeling very sorry for myself. Havent I spent enough time and paid enough dues in the world of hell? WHen is life not so sucky. I so needed us to be better. And I dont see much light. Thats a symtom for you. But when you live with what I saw, you know where this road is going.

Hi, new to this thread.

My WH denies he is an alcoholic or even has an issue with drink. And yet I cant remember the last day he didn't have a beer. He gets rip roaring drunk at home on weekend nights - to the point of staggering down the hall, being short tempered and abusive etc.

When he had his a 3 years ago, OW lived a 45 minute drive away. He would go and see her once a week, saying he was playing pool with friends. After DDay, I asked him why he was able to go without a drink the nights he had been to see her. He said Its cos he didn't need a drink to be with her.

It was heart breaking but a lot of nasty things were said at the time, so it kind of got lost in the battle, as it were.

A few weeks ago, the kids stayed over a friend house, so we had the house to ourselves. He had had the normal amount of alcohol and so was spoiling for a fight - our usual Friday night entertainment!

Anyway, I asked him about his drinking again and asked him how he could not see that his alcohol use was at the centre of all our fights and fallings out.

I cant remember who said it, possibly him, may be me, but it was mentioned about him having to drink to be with me and that he didn't have to with the OW. 3 years after dday, it ripped my heart out. I cried and cried. He said Sorry but then said again a few minutes later Truth hurts, does it?

So I started planning my exit - waiting for the kids to break up from school, get some money organised etc.

On Tuesday this week, we were having another discussion and I said to him how hurtful those words were. I said that he could make up for those words by giving up alcohol to show he doesn't need it to be with me. He said No. That he would give it up when I start being more loving!!! I said Why would I be more loving to someone who says they need alcohol to be with me and call me names?

He went to alcohol support meetings after dday and did switch to non alcoholic beers. But when he had the occasional alcoholic beer, he was still an arsehole. He stopped the meetings after a month or so. I think he thought his feet were back under the table and so he didn't need to make an effort anymore.

Everyone says he drinks too much, so I know its not me nagging or over reacting. He had some health checks done lately and they showed his liver function was fine. He sees this as a green light to carry on drinking.

Then there is the financial cost of it. We are so low on finances at the moment and yet he will spend ever last penny on beer and cigarettes. Our 15 yr son wants to go to a drifting event this weekend and WH has told him we cant afford it. Yet he spent the price it would cost to go to the event on beer and cigarettes in 3 days last weekend

I want out - I don't want to live my life like this any more. I don't want to my children having to look after their father every weekend when he is drunk - getting him to bed, fetching his beers when he orders them to do so, being afraid to say anything cos he will go off on one etc.

Sorry, just wanted to moan!!!

Yep. I really believe I am onto this alcoholic thing. Our anniversary is soon. He secretly planned a vacation to NM. Normally I would be estatic. Vacations are not so fun anymore. Last night we were discussing this trip. I was angry with him. He also secretly planned a dinner with a coworker, and his wife. Never told me. I asked why. I didnt know him, and never met her. This is our wedding anniversary, why spend it with coworkers? We have 5 nights only. Why waste one? We are seeing two cities. His first reply was to get tips and suggestions for vacation. I recommended email. Then.....he mentioned this coworker is also a beer brewer.......We were going to his house. To see, taste, talk and experience his beer. Now I feel this is the only reason why he picked this location. Last year, I mentioned this area, and he threw a tantrum and said hes only husband who has to look at turquoise and eat mexican for vacation...... Everyone else gets to golf and party. I was not that set on it. We did not go. So now, he planned this on his own. I am still sensitive about those remarks about NM. I am not convinced he had a change of heart. I didnt ask to go. ANd I find out we are spending our first night beer tasting at a friends house? He defended that this was a good friend. I checked his phone. They do not text. He doesnt even own his email address. This guys job is computers.????? No recent phone calls. They are not close friends. I clearly remember several snarky remarks made by my H about this guy. Its all about the beer. He likes him now because he makes beer. This trip is tolerable, because he can take this time and go try beer. And while we were arguing about it, he had 6 beers. Some extra tall, all 8 point. Alot of homemade beers are stronger. This beer making is not good. Its consuming him and his thoughts. Point is, he planned this vacation. And its based on lies. Since the children no longer travel with us, we have drinks, every night. I get tired of it and switch to tea. I just see more drinking. Everywhere. And the golf? He golfs, then drinks . He likes BBQ's, and drinks. He likes parties, and drinks. The activity never matters. Mostly, he just sits there, talks, and drinks. Thats fun for him. He likes people to listen and be with him. Just as long as everyone drinks. I am seriously considering stopping drinking. To set an example for him and our family. ANd to draw a line. He is now getting pushy. Ordering me one, when I said I didnt want one. Opening two, at once, and handing me one. I am stubborn. That makes me rebel. And this is just the alcohol side of vacation; i havent even mentioned the staring at young girls. Vacations are no longer fun. I keep trying. I couldnt accept this at first. And yet, its more obvious each trip....Vacations were my special dream. I dont like it anymore. I am considering cancelling the trip, if we are not obligated by money.

And I know that stopping my drinking, even tho it isnt much, will start world war III. It will make him hate me, resent me, stay out, etc. In other words, he will act out. Its going to get worse instead of better. I am not up for worse. He will look for a drinking partner eventually.

Brit and cancun-

So sorry for all the pain that you are going through.

I hate what alcohol does to people, families, marriages......

It destroys so much.

Cancun- after DDay my FWH got sober ( finally). Went to AA and IC. It was life changing for him , me , our family.

Such a simple thing -stopping drinking and yet it had such far reaching effect.

When I asked my FWH about his behaviors during his LTA and even before .... Why he didn't want to go to various family events or go on vacation or even go to a movie with me.....and it was always alcohol.

He couldn't drink the way he wanted to so he would prefer to stay home and drink. He had a routine.

And yes I did not drink with him and one of the things that made the OW so attractive was that she was a party animal and did not judge his drinking like I did. Instead she encouraged it.

But.... Is that really a reason for you to continue drinking when you do not want to?

I hope you do find a new IC. I needed to see my IC for 4 yrs after d day!

She was a life saver.

And about Alanon....every meeting has a slightly different feel because it is made up of different people.

Maybe if you try out a few different meetings you may find one that is a better fit?

Does anyone else feel like other people (WS's friends/family) look at you like you're crazy if you try to talk about your WS drinking habits? I've never really broached the subject fully, but I've tried to drop hints about the amount that she drinks, and her friends just blow me off.

[This message edited by FacePunched at 2:23 PM, August 17th (Saturday)]

Brit - Oh, my heart hurts for you. What hurtful things he says. And he's blameshifting, you know that, right? Typical for alcoholics. "I have to drink because you..." fill in the blank. He is taking the focus off his crushing habit and putting it on you. My WH did it all the time in arguments - shifting it somehow so I'd be on the defense.

If you're ready to go, do it, but be sure that you're really ready and willing and prepared. Please, however, don't use it as a bargaining chip with him,i.e. "quit drinking and I will stay." This doesn't work out well most of the time and ends up creating a cycle where you threaten something, he gets "better" and then it goes down hill and you threaten again. You can still support him while separated if he chooses to start the journey of sobriety.

If you leaving is his rock bottom and he gets sober, so be it. You can choose to re-enter the relationship down the road, after much progress and healing.

Facepunched - I didn't have that issue. i wouldn't say people thought my WH was a raging alcoholic (functioning) but they knew he could put away quite a few and they knew his father and grandfather were alcoholics. So when we told people, they were mildly surprised but sort of, "well, that makes sense. Good on you." I don't understand how people can't be supportive. Hell, even if someone is NOT an alcoholic and gives up social drinking - more power to 'em. Why not?

FacePunched --

Could it be that they are her drinking buddies, and see nothing wrong with how much she's drinking?

Could it be that they are her drinking buddies, and see nothing wrong with how much she's drinking?

Kinda/sorta. Mostly, the issue is that they're single and in their early-mid twenties, whereas we are married and in our 20s/30s, so their view of drinking is skewed by their age/social group, y'know? My wife has never been a huge "go out and drink" type of person....though perhaps she would've been if not for being married with a child. Her drinking is more of the variety of high-functioning.....does well at work, is well-liked, super nice....but then at home just gets wasted, and I'm left to deal with all the emotional mood swings, not them. My wife is super mild-mannered normally, and so everybody tries to get her to go out and have a drink after work, and when that happens and she cuts loose a little bit and they see her become a little more relaxed and vocal, they think it's funny or cool. I think they all view her as this buttoned-up tight ass who never relaxes, and I tend to be more high strung and combative, so if I say anything at all about her drinking habits, I just look like an controlling ogre to them, you know? Poor her, with the husband who won't let her relax with her friends.

Facepunched-

I think that many people do not know enough about alcoholism to recognize it.

They assume that an alcoholic is a homeless person on the street.

They do not realize that the person sitting next to them at the office could be an alcoholic that needs to have a beer in the morning to steady his/her shaky hands and then has another drink at lunchtime etc.

Or an alcoholic could be someone that binges only on weekends to the point of blacking out.

Or...it could be a functional alcoholic like my FWH that was the life of the party but also would begin drinking sometimes at lunch with co-workers, then at happy hour after work, then a drink at home....

same on weekends..it would start with a beer at lunchtime and then it would be steady drinking through the afternoon/evening.

My children never realized that he had a drinking problem because I protected them from it.

They just knew that he fell asleep in front of the TV every night (passed out).

I agree with you-it could be that the friends like to drink also so they do not see it as a problem.

If it interferes with their life and causes arguments, problems etc. and they cannot stop (even if its just giving up their 2 beers after work every day)then they have a drinking problem.

But, people often don't see it.

My FWH's MOW/coworker/ drinking buddy was a fall down, fall off the bar stool drunk when she went out with her work buddies and went to the work conferences etc.

My FWH described her as an alcoholic ( it takes one to know one).

When I spoke to the MOW's BH after d-day and told him that she was an alcoholic like my husband-he denied that she had a drinking problem!

Yet,later he described their marriage as her coming home from work and taking a plate of food and a beer up to the bedroom alone.

It just sucks....because when you combine this aspect with the tearing down of me my WW did to her friends during the A, I come off looking like the crazy one.

FPunched-

Does your WW still socialize with all of these drinking buddies? does she still drink?

1) Yes. She doesn't hang out with them socially, but we're (all of us) co-workers, and she's still on friendly terms with them. It's actually just one friend in particular. I've voiced my unease about this to both my WW and our MC and there was an argument about it.

2) Yes. Not usually like it was before, but sometimes.

[This message edited by FacePunched at 10:46 AM, August 22nd (Thursday)]

I've voiced my unease about this to both my WW and our MC and there was an argument about it.

Defensive and attacking is not a remorseful way to handle your unease.

Do the two of you have an agreed upon list of FOM?

[This message edited by Chicho at 4:52 AM, August 24th (Saturday)]

Defensive and attacking is not a remorseful way to handle your unease.

Agreed. Truth be told, it wasn't really coming from my WW, moreso from the MC. Attack would be strong word for what happened, but I think my MC feels like I'm trying to 'control' my WW by dictating who she can and cannot hang out with. If I'm being honest with myself, I probably need to be clearer about my boundaries. I think the whole topic of consequences and boundaries feels to me like I am trying to control my WW's actions, you know?

This probably belongs in 'General' more than anything, but basically, the MC and I disagreed on the FOM concept. I think that our MC is on the same page in that if there were someone who she was friends with who actively encouraged the affair that person should not be around, but where we part ways on the subject of this particular person is that while she didn't encourage it per se, she knew about it, she knew/knows me and our son, and I feel like her knowing about it for several weeks at least before I did and not saying anything to me about it is cause enough to move her out of the FOM category at the very least and into the realm of "general aquaintance." The fact that she has been, on occasion, my WW's drinking buddy just adds fuel to the proverbial fire.

Do the two of you have an agreed upon list of FOM?

No.

[This message edited by FacePunched at 11:35 AM, August 24th (Saturday)]

FP- yea this might get better response in General. Our FOM list is mutually agreed upon. People on the list view us as a couple not as two individuals. If pressed they would chose to defend the integrity of our relationship as opposed to picking sides. They would be honest enough to call either of us out on behaviors that would be detrimental to our relationship.

I might look into a new MC

hmm... I think that drinking buddies and FOM (friends of marriage) can be two different categories.

I think that many people are in denial about being alcoholics and they do not realize how much better their lives would be if they could get sober once and for all.

So many people think that they can 'control' their drinking and/or still drink socially or switch to beer or wine from hard liquor and that will do the trick.

Unfortunately, they usually find out that they are wrong and the toxic, alcoholic thinking and drinking takes over again.

That's where continuing to hang out with former drinking buddies does not work.

I've said it before...but IMHO after infidelity all the rules change.

In my house that meant that anything that got him into the mess of the affair had to change.

No facebook friends, no going out with 'the guys', no more secrets, transparency in all passwords, cell phone usage, you name it.

And most of all - no more drinking or drugs-ever.

That part of his life was over.

And he would be the first to tell you that he loves his new life.

Now...as for FOM....I would consider someone that knew about the affair and encouraged the affair or helped the WS get involved in the affair as someone who was NOT a friend of my marriage and someone I would not want in my life.

However....just knowing about the affair and not telling you may not mean that the person was in favor of the affair or did not support your marriage.

Ironically, right before my d-day I found out about a very close friend's affair and her d-day.

I knew all the details. And I did not contact her husband.

I was a good friend of his also but because I had no experience with infidelity I did not know how to react.

I did not encourage my friend, instead I did warn her and discourage her behavior.

But...my reaction was nowhere near as extreme as it would be today after experiencing the pain of d-day myself.

Infidelity is one of those things that until you experience it yourself you really do not understand it at all.

My friend's husband has continued to give me the cold shoulder ever since.

I was a friend of their marriage and was rooting for their marriage to survive.

Unfortunately, my girlfriend did not go that route.

So...I just wanted to give that insight.

Not sure if your situation is similar or not.

What a weekend. We spent the time moving my son to his apt. Its A 3 hr drive. My H, immediately drives to store, when truck was unloaded, and buys beer. Just disappeared. Then, He passes them around. Everyone had that suprised look, .....we were all busy unpacking. It was awkward. H had a couple of beers. Then we went for supper. He decided to drive the truck and trailer, since it was closer to hotel. Save a trip. He drove up a dead end street by accident, and he has no experience on how to back up a trailer. I get out to watch in back and side, I instruct him to watch front and other side. Yep. he damaged the trailer. ANd panicked. Blamed me. Said I should have watched the other side and front also. It was all my fault. ... I was in shock. I went off on him in a quiet , cold, way. I pointed out, the above conversations, then I pointed out his drinking, while he should be working. Everyone else was working. COMPLETE DENIAL. COMPLETE BLAME. WE parked at hotel, and son drove to restaurant. H drank a tankard. His anxiety was thru the roof. He used to hide his drink from the kids. Now, not so much. His drinking has escalated in the last few years. I see a spiral. Hes at that place. His panic is over the money he might have to fork out for repairs. His panic is always money. which leads to more beer. And its my fault. I am hoping this might be the thing to make him stop and think. He seems to be embarassed alot lately. I am hating how my world is spinning to an even uglier place. Hes a child.

What a weekend is right!

He put you and your children at risk by driving drunk as well as other innocent bystanders.

It sounds like your children have had enough of his drinking too.