SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hey Sideshow,

Sorry for the delay in responding.

Well – frankly there is nothing in your WW response that surprises me. Don’t sweat it – she’s still like a child that threatens to hold its breath because she can’t get ice-cream. Now it’s your call whether you give way to her demands or stand by your words.

My opinion? Well – I have used the war and battle analogy so I’ll stick to that. This last encounter was a battle with no clear outcome and an unclear winner right now BUT some days from now you will see YOU come better out of this.

Let’s use a comparison. Think back to school and a school bully. Your WW is the school bully. She’s threatened you a beating if you don’t comply with her demands (the beating being divorce, losing the house, the kids etc. The demands being she be allowed to keep on with the affair). OK – so the school bully keeps threatening you and taking your lunch money every day. Then one day you refuse to pay. OK – so the bully beats the crap out of you BUT you give back as good as you get. You manage to land several punches. When you two are pulled apart you might have a black eye and a bleeding lip but the school bully has sore ribs and a broken nose. Next day the bully might have the threats but no longer the swagger… The bully will think twice before demanding your money.

That’s where your wife is now. She has the threats and IF you give in she will have the swagger. If however you stick to your guns she will be deflated. Stick to your stance: I refuse to share you. While the affair is ongoing there is no chance for the marriage.

OK – Just for the sake of argument let’s say she’s right: That you have some serious flaw and that the chances of you making amends and changing are less than 10%. Let’s also agree that this serious flaw is one that most of us would agree is “divorce material”. But not wanting to reconcile because of such a flaw – that’s not giving the marriage a 1 in 10 chance.

Let’s also agree that ongoing infidelity is a 10 out of 10 killer of marriages. Not agreeing to end the affair… that’s not giving the marriage the slightest chance of survival.

So where is the logic in that?

When she says she doesn’t believe you can change: “I’m sorry you feel that way. Maybe it’s true but as is then I am willing to make the effort. However while you are still in an active affair then there is no way we can reconcile.”

OK – so how to process. Well – I know that you want to reconcile [Insert for other posters: Whether you think this is too much disrespect, too bad a situation, too much of an affair etc for reconciliation to be possible… so far that’s a moot point. The ONLY THING needed to initiate reconciliation is the mutual will to reconcile. As is Sideshow wants to reconcile and when and IF his wife does so too they can recover]. So my suggestion will be based on trying to get reconciliation on the table.

DO NOT LEAVE THE HOUSE.

Next time she suggest you do so then refuse. Remind her that OM is a widower and if she thinks the marriage is over and she doesn’t think you can coexist while the termination is completed then remind her she is free to go live with him (albeit without the kids).

Without making a fuss about it and without letting your wife know then talk to an attorney. You need to know your rights. I mentioned divorce before and I think it’s a process where everyone loses money but right now you need to know what your position is.

DO NOT INITIATE direct divorce talk. When she talks about separation and so on then simply tell her she is free to do what she wants to. It’s not up to you to “give” her a divorce.

Be realistic about divorce. Can she keep the house? Can you keep the house? How will divorce impact your lives financially? Can she demand spousal support? If so then does infidelity impact that? There is no need to be mean or vindictive but you need to make the consequences of divorce very very clear to her when she does start talking about it.

DETACH. Follow the 180. Do not initiate relationship conversations with her. Your stance is clear: Commit to marriage or you aren’t my wife.

Think about yourself. Exercise. Work out. Shower and shave. Start making plans for your life. Try as hard as you can to look content and determined; as if you have accepted the fact that losing her beats sharing her.

Soon start talking openly about the affair. You don’t need to tell her you know its still ongoing because of the telephone pattern. You simply tell her that “since you are not willing to commit to the marriage I KNOW the affair is ongoing”. So start thinking whom to tell about the affair. Exposure is a delicate subject. Some posters will tell you it makes reconciliation harder because so many people know. I counter that exposure actually makes R a possibility. Right now R isn’t being offered so if exposure makes future R harder… well then in turn it might have made R possible.

When you expose you do so gently and with dignity: “I am sharing with you that WW is having an affair with OM because the affair is threatening my family. I am hoping that by telling you then you can have some impact on my WW to do the right thing and make her realize what she is risking”.

Ok, an update.....

We had a long talk on Sunday where she made several commitments to me. This was following on from the line I took following advice on here about "you're free to see/sleep with whoever you want but not as my wife." she said several things: she wants to grow old with me, she understands how i can't do that until she has finished with OM and I've seen her commit to us, and how stupid she's been. Progress, I hope?

Since then she has been much more affectionate, talking about the future a lot, and we even made love last night. I won't say had sex as it felt far more sensual than just sex.

She tells me she is breaking it off with him today. I wait with baited breath........

YES YES YES!!!

It‘s definite progress.

BUT it’s just the first step. A small but critical step. She’s acknowledging the problem and the improbability of maintaining an affair and the marriage.

[I have been here on SI for quite some time. I have seen relationships fail and I have seen relationships recover. I have only seen very few cases where a WS sees the light clearly right away, breaks off the affair and maintains accountable NC right from the start. Remember – it’s about winning the war, not the individual battles,]

We often use alcoholism as a comparison to infidelity (the two are comparable in a limited way). You and your wife think she’s hooked on OM. In fact she isn’t “hooked” on OM, just like an alcoholic isn’t hooked on Jack Daniels. She’s hooked on the physical and psychological kick the affair gives her through OM. Just like an alcoholic might prefer Jack Daniels but will settle for Absolute or any other drink containing alcohol.

Your conversation with your wife was the conversation where the alcoholic acknowledges he/she has a problem. That the drinking has gone out of hand. Her reactions to going to “break things off” with OM… That’s the alcoholic having a beer while contemplating his/her drinking problem. Sure it beats having her downing shots but it means she’s still feeding her addiction.

So… How should an alcoholic react? Cold turkey and a plan for recovery.

In the infidelity equivalent: Total NC and a plan for reconciliation.

I can tell you what to expect:

Your wife is probably totally 100% committed to ending the physical aspect of the affair. She’s also probably willing to limit the emotional attachment to OM. She WILL stick to it… for some time. But the odds are extremely high that she will fail. It will start innocently enough; an e-mail asking how he’s doing, a conversation at the joint hobby you mentioned, and a look across the room at the next party you are all at…

I can also tell you how the break-up will be: There will be talk about how in another life, how their love is not meant to be, how they have to make sacrifices for their children yada yada yada… This is the sort of break up that allows her to maintain the affair in a positive light.

My suggestion:

Tell your wife that you appreciate the commitment she is making. Tell her you see it as a very positive step. But remind her that she is TOTALLY FREE to do whatever she wants. So if she breaks off with OM then it’s ONLY because she decides to do so. You are not applying any pressure whatsoever on her. It’s TOTALLY her call 100%.

Then tell her that seeing OM to break off the affair is in itself infidelity. If she is totally committed to reconciliation she will simply send him a NC letter:

“OM – the affair we had is wrong. In having the affair I have endangered my marriage. I have decided to commit to saving my marriage and my family. I will not be in contact with you in any way or form from now on and request that you respect my wishes and don’t contact me in any way or form. Any form of contact will be shared with my husband and can lead to legal action.”

Then share your thoughts and worries with her: The worry that meeting OM to end the affair won’t work. That being in the same circle of friends as OM will prevent recovery. That socializing in the same circle will impede recovery…

Bigger has made some great points here. I just wanted to add my little tid bit to his comments. Do not sit back and stall any plans you have put into effect just because she claims she wannts to end things with the OM. Like Bigger stated many WS will want to keep the OP in their lives in some shape or form. This can not be tolerated or negotiated. You have to make her know that you will follow through with whatever course of action you have planned. If she is serious her actions will dictate where things are going. Right now all you have are words from a confirmed liar.

Well here goes. I found out about three weeks ago the WS was having an EA and potentially an EMA. I found out only because I found my wifes car parked in a location it was not supposd to be. Turns out that I waited for her to return and she was dropped off by Om. I confronted them and OM sped off like a coward leaving her to deal with my outrage. After a few days of telling me more lies and constant questioning, She admitted only that the co-worker and she were "only talking".

After what was supposed to be a weekend for US to talk and share she met with him the next monday to "let him vent". REALLY!!!!

After catching her in another lie about this meeting she admitted that they met only briefly and that they met to, end it. END WHAT? They work at the same place!!! I took steps to confront the other man telephonically; did so the next day. He had the audacity to try and make me believe that his interest was "only to be a "friend and colleague" and the he was not like the other men who "showed other" types of interest in WS.

WS indicates that they were only talking and that "I'm so hard sometimes", (retired LEO), thats why she was talking to the OM. I guess for soem some type of emotional outlet. I was laid off of work almost a year to the day and this past three weeks have been a living hell. Oh and by the way, I've forgiven her three times already in the past seventeen years of marriage. At least two of the A's have been PA's shes admitted to three in total two PA's and now two EA's. I'm losing count of all of these A's. This last one was after a several months of therapy for me three years, she never completed it.

OK, any insights folks I'm really messed up by this one because of both the timing, (unemployment) and the lying. Shes stated that she wants to work it out and has asked for forgiveness but I just can't believe her this time. and right now my instincts tell me this marriage is doomed. PLEASE, Somebody say something!!!!

Hey forgivedout

Just want to let you know you have been heard. I strongly suggest you start your own thread and repost your story there. That way we can offer advice specific to your situation. Retired LEO? Too hard? Well – I’m a former LEO and I too get that comment.

Other than that I want to leave you with three things to consider:

The advice I would offer you is in a very similar vein as the advice I have offered here on this thread.

This is not a “simple” EA. People that work together have enough time at or around work to do the talking. They can use coffee breaks, lunch, ten minutes before work… You need to get the full extent of what’s going on.

Your wife has a pattern of cheating. This can be fixed. But if it isn’t then you are doomed to have another d-day in the future. Tackle this issue NOW.

I was in your same position nearly 3 years ago. I got the same exact comments from my WW. She said that she didn't trust me. even though she was cheating. You should listen to Bigger and the rest of our friends. I did not find SI until i had learned all of this the hard way.

She doesn't want to have sex with you because that would be cheating on him. She has already made her choice, for now. That can change after some shock and awe. In hindsight, every decision that I made trying to "love" her back or "nice" her back was wrong. Every single one. After I moved to file she hit bottom, and ended up in the hospital. Only when faced with divorce did she turn around.