SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

joe...

Hey Bro...welcome to SI. You have received a lot of good advice from a lot of folks...I agree with them...

Telling the other BS will NOT "push them" together....they are together now...

Time to burst her little fantasy...tell the other BS...ASAP!! The result - the OM will dump her in order to save his own marriage...thus enabling your wife to see that she is just a notch on her BFs belt....huge reality check!!! Im betting this aint his first rodeo...

Count on you WW rewriting her marital history...they do this to justify their cheating...they DO deserve to be happy...ya know.. .

Bro....shes gonna be pissed...pissed she got caught...prepare yourself for it. Oh...cheaters lie - expect it...

Until your wife shows true remorse....shes humping your leg...Until you get the old "snotting, crying, blubbering, im so sorry I hurt you, mascara dripping off of her chin apology".....R aint gonna happen!!!

Bust the fantasy....tell the other BS...and do it before the affair has time to go underground....(a lot do at this point)...

Know this bullshit aint your fault...

Keep us posted...

Bufffalo

Buffalo is right. Tell OM's wife. My WH had a 20 year LTA, I found out (discovered it myself) when we'd been married 7 years (yes, the LTA pre-dated my marriage by quite a bit.) His explanation? It was exciting to take a risk, it made him feel young to have that connection to his past and it was easy. That was about it. Oh, he was incessantly texting another XGF too -- chances are good your WW might not even be the only OP her OM is currently involved with.

Joe:

Hope you are doing ok this morning. Notice how many of these posts say the same things over and over? That is because we have all been where you are. We have the benefit now of seeing how it ends. Giving you advice we wished we had taken earlier which would have caused us much less pain. Some of this may seem counter productive to saving your marriage but buddy, it truly is the only way to save it now.

I concur that you should keep your appointment with your lawyer. You can stop proceedings whenever you want. She is testing you right now, being just a little bit less mean and nasty to see if you will do what she wants. If you give in now, you only make this longer (as I did). There is nothing worse than sharing your spouse with someone else.

Don't share, let him have her and see what the light of day does to their romance.

Also, telling the other wife will give you the benefit of having an ally in his home. He will be way too busy fighting his own battles to worry about your wife.

You will be ok. You can do this. You my friend, hold all the cards, even if it doesn't feel like it.

This morning she was angry until I told her I was going to speak to my attorney today, and once the train started rolling it would be hard to stop. That seemed to jolt her into some sort of temporary reality. We had a counseling session scheduled for tomorrow, that she told me last night she no longer wanted to go to. Now she asked if I would wait until after the MC session tomorrow to reach out to the attorney.

I would say still see the attorney. She needs to know that you mean business. She needs to be shocked back to reality. Burst the affair bubble.

Also, telling the other wife will give you the benefit of having an ally in his home. He will be way too busy fighting his own battles to worry about your wife.

I couldn't agree more.

Joe, keep moving and know that you are doing great.

Hold on. Tomorrow is a new day. We are all here rooting for you.

Sounds like she was all set to leave until she realized that you were serious about a D. Talk about a shot of reality. She never thought it through.

Make an appointment with your lawyer ASAP and keep it, even if it's before your MC session. You need to know your rights if she does decide to leave.

[This message edited by toomanyregrets at 11:51 AM, June 19th (Wednesday)]

Joe.

Already got some great advice but I want to add my two cents worth.

There are several things I see in your posts. Things that are atypical post-d-day reactions. These are things that we have seen again and again and we tend to know how the reaction will be, the reaction to the reaction and so on.

Fact is that I guess we old-timers here on SI can predict with amazing accuracy how things will develop. Human reaction tends to be predictable and I venture we can predict with 60-80% accuracy how you react, how your WW reacts and so on. Like your reaction to telling OMW; I guess only one in ten BH jump to the act of telling the OMW. I guess we manage to convince six out of ten. I venture that 98 out of a hundred are happy with having told OMW and see a benefit to THEIR marriage (irrespective of whether it’s morally the correct thing to do).

I also venture that we old-timers can give you a sequence of things to do. Expose, have WW commit to NC, have WW commit to transparency and so on. I venture that if you manage to get a commitment to all the steps your odds of saving your marriage are 95%. I also venture that each and every step you decide to omit OR don’t get your WW to commit to lessens your chances by a third. So not telling OMW… down from 99% to 66%. Add to that no NC letter… 33%. Add to that no transparency and you are at 0%.

What would I suggest as your first step? Well… Acknowledge some very simple and obvious facts:

You can’t reconcile alone.

The affair is your WW decision. It wasn’t inevitable. It isn’t justifiable. It’s a DECISSION. At some point she made the clear and conscious decision to enter an affair.

You don’t want a marriage where your wife is having sex and seeking emotional support from another man.

The worst possible outcome of this situation is NOT divorce. The worst possible outcome is that your wife REMAINS in a state of infidelity. [This obvious truth isn’t often so obvious. Possibly a third of those dealing with infidelity don’t deal with the underlying issues and accept a situation where this great big white elephant keeps vigil in the home. These couples find a way to remain amicable, even have sex every now and then and have acceptable communications, but don’t deal with the issues. This is most often justified with some excuse regarding the kids and breaking up a home. Sort of like refusing to call the fire-brigade because extinguishing the burning house might leave you cold…]

Once you acknowledge these steps then tell your wife something like this:

“Honey. I believe we could reconcile our marriage. I also think our kids deserve we try. But… I have also realized that a divorce is NOT the worst outcome. The worst outcome would be to remain in a marriage where you seek sex and emotional validation from other men. A marriage where you say I am so lacking and you say you are so unhappy with me. I could acknowledge that I could make changes, but there is NOTHING lacking in me that explains, justifies or even starts making sense of your decision to cheat. So while this is the case – while you maintain our relationship is over and that I am so far below your standards then I’m simply taking you at face-value.

There is no rush but I am simply acknowledging your wishes and we will start the process of terminating this marriage. It won’t be done in anger, neither of us will be screwed and I have no intention of being greedy or seeking more than the law entitles us to. We don’t have to start the process right now but I definitely will be looking into how to move on.

I won’t be talking to you about specifics. I’m too emotionally attached to the marriage. In time we will get a professional to help us through this process.

Although I’m not happy with it then you are totally free to see OM or any other man you want. It would be in bad taste but realistically you have stated you don’t want to be in this marriage and if we are terminating it then that’s something you are free to do.

If I am misunderstanding something. If I am not so terrible and lacking as you claim. If you want to work on the marriage then as is I’m open to that. I will need some basic requirements such as transparency, NC and a commitment to MC and reconciliation but I also acknowledge that the work will require a lot from BOTH of us. But until and unless you tell me very clearly you want this marriage… Then I’m working at its formal termination.”

OK – that’s a long speech. But think about it: Your situation is comparable to the guy that caught his arm in a crevice in Utah. You know – the guy that cut it off after a week or so. I guess he hoped he didn’t have to. I guess that given a choice he would have preferred keeping both arms. But he didn’t HAVE that choice. He had to choose from the options he had and they were limited and bad; die or cut. That’s where you are. You can chose to be in a marriage where your wife is cheating and/or claims to be unhappy with you OR you can get out of the marriage. Chances are that when SHE faces her options - commit to reconciliation or divorce – she will eventually chose reconciliation.

But… It won’t happen right away… Not in the first three minutes after the speech.

She will say things like “Well – I might reconcile for the kids”. And you need to stand firm and say “No – the kids will be fine. It’s better to come from a broken home than live in one”. She’s going to say “We can’t afford to divorce” and you are going to say “Well – we can be sensible and use one lawyer. For me the price is low compared to the emotional pain of being in infidelity”…. Each and every excuse she uses to remain married… you remove it.

Eventually she has to stand in front of you and say “I want to save our marriage because I want to remain married to you”. Not because of the kids, not because of the lifestyle, not because you are upside down on the house. No excuse. Only a valid reason.

And then you move on. Don’t tell her you are seeing an attorney – just go see one. Don’t tell her you are planning on having the house appraised – just do it. Don’t tell her you are getting financial statements and records… just do it. No drama. No theatrics. No warning. Just work at the initial steps of ending a marriage.

Finally: Regarding telling the OMW. It’s the single best thing you can do to save your marriage. Back to odds and numbers: 9/10 OM dump their OW ASAP on exposure. Being dumped is a great way to wake women up. Plus the OMW will act as a barometer on whether the affair is ongoing or not.

Joe,

You've been given great advice. I wish I had it as early as you. I wallowed for 2 months before I got my head sorted.

One thing to remember when she says its over and she doesn't love you. Can you imagine how insane it would be for her to realize that she hurt and damaged someone she loved and fathered her children? That she threw away her marriage and altered her kids lives for a schmooopiieee? She needs to think your bad. That's the only way this makes sense to her in her little bizarroworld. She needs to blame you for everything from snoring, the loss of Atlantis, and NSA snoping. Because if you're not bad, if upon reflection that you have a normal marriage with its normal challenges,, then she'll be forced realize how f'ed up she is. And that's gunna suck.

[This message edited by Ghostrider at 2:05 PM, June 19th (Wednesday)]

great advice --

wanted to add --do not tell your wife that you are going to inform the other BS... just do.

joe, couples counseling is a waste of money if she's still in the affair, which she is. a suggestion would be individual counseling.

Let me reiterate: HER AFFAIR IS NOT YOUR FAULT. If she felt the marriage was SO bad she had other options.

TELL OM's WIFE! ( he'll throw your wife under the bus!) STAY FROSTY AND JUST ALL BUSINESS! No emotion, no I love you, no begging. Protect yourself. If it doesn't get better it will get ugly, be prepared! Good Luck!

[This message edited by cuckhold at 8:00 PM, June 19th (Wednesday)]

((Joe)) So sorry. Overall great advice. Thumbs up for Bigger.

Agree with Freeme too. Don't tell her you are going to tell OmW. Just tell her. Or send her a package with any documentation you have. Make sure she and she alonehas to sign for the package.

Good luck to you.

First of all, I need to say thank you to everyone who has helped deal with this issue. So I called her bluff and told her I was going to meet with the attorney. I am no longer emotional, she told me last night she wanted out, so I am committed to moving forward with the big D. Now, I have a new problem. She is all of a sudden remourseful and even wanted to have sex (I said absolutely not right now- where did that willpower come from?) So I am ready to move on, and now she decides she wants to give it another try. I really can't tell what is real right now.

She is all of a sudden remourseful and even wanted to have sex

Don't have sex with her. Keep up the will power. Chances are this OM is a big time player, so you could be exposing yourself to STD's.

She is all of a sudden remourseful

Ok. Well remember, cheaters lie. So words mean absolutely NOTHING.

This is what you do:

1) Require her to get tested for STD's

2) Demand transparency. No locking phones. You will know all passwords.

3) She writes a no-contact letter to the OM. Make sure the delivery method is reliable.

4) His wife is informed.

5) She quits the gym

6) She begins individual counseling.

7) You can look at beginning marriage counseling after she has some sucess with her IC.

8) You STILL see the attorney so she knows you are prepared for plan B.

9) Lay out the consequences if she breaks the NC rules with the OM.

If she back peddles on any of these, she is not remorseful. You are presenting her with a "gift". She needs to recognize it as such. Remember, the truth will be in her actions, not in her words. This is not something that she can just sweep under the rug, pretend nothing happened and just let things go back to "normal." She needs to earn back trust and respect. That is going to take time.

I really can't tell what is real right now.

Continue with your plan to move ahead. Meet with your attorney. You need to know what your options are.

As for the rest you could go nuts trying to figure it out. Don't try too hard. See what happens. It's action not words you need to see.

She wants another try. Try at what? And more to the point why does she think you'd want to?

Remorse? Maybe. But remember what she's said before.

Realisation that you're serious and that that has implications she doesn't like? Quite possibly.

Except nothing has changed. Nor should your plan without major changes from your WW. Tell her what you want and need. And see what happens.

Re-read sadtoo's list until it's IN you.

Recognize that within yourself - you want to believe it's remorse. Pretty much, we all do that...

but WAIT.

True remorse is consistent ACTION over time.

NOT going from "it's done" & password-protecting on Tuesday to wanting sex on Thursday.

I want to congratulate you for sticking firm. Manning up.

Focus on yourself - stay strong. Cool, calm, collected.

A picture of manly strength and resolve.

Way to go joe!

Let this strengthen you:

You do know what is real - within you - the MAN.

That is the focus on yourself part.

You are no longer guessing about your reality, because your reality is within you. Your strength.

I am impressed. You swatted away her attempt to get you to back down with sex, seeing it for what it is - a manipulative tool.

Stronger than Samson.

Not many of us guys can say that.

Falling for that kept me tangled & fooled for way too long.

Major, MAJOR PROPS TO YOU!

Now, sadtoo's list.

Do it.

You da man!

Just wanted to clarify a few things in the list above.

3) She writes a no-contact letter to the OM. Make sure the delivery method is reliable.

Make sure you see the letter before its sent.

4) His wife is informed.

She shouldn't care about this is she is serious about staying together. Also, you will have another set of eyes watching emails...

Also, Great job at being strong.

She is all of a sudden remourseful

That isn't remorse. That is fear and regret at having been caught. My guess is that she underestimated your strength and will to move forward. Her manipulations have worked thus far, and you are effectively undermining them right now. Stay the course.

I suspect she thought she could continue to have both. And now that you pulled that fantasy apart, she is fearful and grasping onto what she considers the "safe" or "sure" option. Keep doing what your doing. It's like an antibiotic, just because you are seeing results and some of the symptoms have abated, doesn't mean you should stop taking the pills. You still need to finish the full course so you don't leave the actual infection behind to replicate itself at some later date.

True Remorse is going to take a while.

Joe,

The betrayed spouse mantra is pray for sun – prepare for rain.

You don’t need to decide what you want right now. But there are plenty of actions you can take that will/might help you reach a decision. Things that help you move out from where you are right now. Think of it this way: Imagine you and your wife are in a boat in the middle of a great lake. The boat sinks and you can see land a great distance away. Swim north land might be 10 miles away. Swim south and land might be 9 miles away. But you are not certain, you don’t know the currents, you really don’t know if north or south is the correct, easiest and/or shortest way to safety. In fact – you really don’t know if you CAN swim that many miles… But right where you are in the middle of the lake all that’s happening is that you are wasting energy treading water and your WW is threatening to pull you down by clinging on to you…

In this situation then knowledge would definitely make things easier. If you KNEW a rescue helicopter was heading your way. If you KNEW that the currents made the 10 mile swim easier. If you KNEW that two miles to the east was a reef you could climb onto…

But without that knowledge the ONLY 100% wrong thing to do would be to tread water and do nothing. That would only end with you both drowning.

That is where you are right now. By doing absolutely nothing you simply will drown. So use this time to gather info, to prepare for rain.

I can’t strongly enough encourage you to expose. You should definitely 100% tell his wife. I would also strongly suggest you make a complaint to the gym he is training in and providing his “services” at. Will this be embarrassing? Hell yes. But it will also make it very clear to him and your wife that this sort of behavior is not accepted by you in any way or form. Just go to the gym, ask for the manager and have a short one-on-one. In both cases then DO NOT tell your wife your intentions and/or that you have done these things. Just do them and then see if they have consequences. [The odds are 99/100 that the manager will tell you he can’t intervene in personal issues, you will threaten to make sure everyone knows what’s going on and that after you leave he will call the OM and give him a warning. End of story. But it WILL shake OM and make him realize his actions have consequences - encouraging him to leave your wife be.]

You should also keep your appointment with the attorney. You simply need to know your rights. You don’t need to file or to reach any decision. You simply need to get info and to digest it.

Go get STD tested. You could suggest your wife gets tested and definitely make it clear to her that until and unless she gets tested there won’t be any sex or reconciliation. But you simply make your appointment and go – once again with no fanfare, no reminders to your wife, no demand she goes (until and unless she asks for reconciliation).

Finally – regarding the NC letter. The NC letter is short, non-emotional and simple. It’s not “our love is not meant to be” or “in another world our souls will flounder on the beaches” bullshit. It’s simple and direct:

“OM –Our affair hurt my husband and damaged my family. I want to reconcile my marriage and will focus all my efforts on that. I will not be contacting you in any way or form and request that you respect this and do not contact me in any way or form. Any contact or attempt to contact me will be shared with my husband and can lead to legal action”

[This message edited by Bigger at 6:44 AM, June 20th (Thursday)]

FYI...she probably needs to get tested twice. Once now and again in six months. HIV has a long incubation period.

Hi Joe,

Have you spoken to the OBS yet?

If not please do. Don't tell your WW you're gonna.

All the best. You are doing fine.

She tells me two days ago that she wants out, her life is miserable, etc...She shows what looks like remorse last night and crawls into my bed upstairs last night (still not sure how I said no). The. This morning she says she really wants to give it a try to make it work. I remain unemotional and not interested in committing to anything. She emailed a no contact email to the guy a few weeks ago when this first happened. Ironically he sent the same type of email back to her. So that has been checked off, she swears she has had no contact with this guy (even though she put her password back on her phone when we were arguing a few days ago-she disabled that again soon after when I told her that was a deal beaker.)

My problem is that I agree with her that we did argue a lot prior to this event and things weren't going that well (not bad enough to justify her actions though-more like disagreements when you you are trying to deal with normal stressors like tree little kids and bills). I was ready to move forward with a D an now she is telling me she wants it to work. I am meeting with my attorney tomorrow and planning on moving forward with the process of filing. But now I am feeling a little guilty based upon her now telling me she wants to try to make things work.