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Question. How can she go NC when she works with him. They are both public school teachers. If they quit their job (either or both), they are throwing away their career.

FWW (and her OM) were let go from their employer. She no longer applies for jobs where she may be in contact with OM. Not just at work, but in functions, community events, etc. At first this was because I did not trust her to be around OM, now it is because she cannot stand the thought of seeing or being near OM.

Yes, it has hurt us financially. She will probably never again make the money she was making where she had her last A. The overall financial cost is probably less than a D, but with the recession she has had lowering paying work and streches of unemployed.

Teachers can transfer to other schools in the district if large enough, go to other districts, find other jobs.

Telling the OM's BS is the best first step to help keep them apart no matter what you and your BW end up doing.

Cytron - First of all I want to say you are doing a great job so far. This shit is hard. It takes time to find your strength in this mess.

So first of all take a moment to be proud of how you have handled things so far.

Next, contact other BS, she has every right to know, and now that you know yoru WW has colluded with her WH you know there is going to be 10 tons, of blameshifting, marriage rewriting, minimalizing crap to wade through. It's much easier to just walk around it.

As far as them being public school teachers, it can be very hard to establish NC. Unless one of them are willing to transfer schools. This probably will not be possible untils the end of the semester. Esp if they are working with younger grades. If one of them has job as a counselor, or other ancillary staff it may be more feesible as well.

If your wife defoggs she will do WHATEVER it takes to R, and if that means quitting, changing, or taking a leave from her job she will do it. However I think you are a long way from that happening at this point. She is just trying to put out a fire she realized was burning, unfortunately she doesn't realize that he whole world is on fire, because of her fog, she can't see the forest for the trees.

((((and strength))))

Your WW imediatley runs to the OM. Well I guess NC is something else your WW doesn't understand.

It's called consequences.

They're teachers. They're "supposed" to be smart enough to realize that if they got caught they could loose their jobs, not to mention their marriages.

As for loosing their jobs, as long as "you" can survive on one paycheck, why should you care what happens to the OM and his family. He's an adult just like your WW.

Hey man. I am sorry for what you are going through. I can promise you that things will get better. They may seem worse for awhile, but you seem to have a good head on your shoulders. I got a feeling you are going to happy again. Strong people always bounce back.

Your W is not telling you the truth. Anyone here has heard this before. It is called trickle truth. It is a misguided attempt to minimize the damage they have already done. Not defending your W, but it is fairly common.

Just wanted you to share something from my personal experience that may be helpful to you right now.

I, like you, had separation papers drawn and was getting ready to move out. I couldn't tell my kids so I stayed. (My W figured she had dodged a bullet). She had no good reason to do anything I asked if she knew I was staying put. Why would she ? Denial is a powerful force that keeps us remembering the horrible things we have done.

Anyway the bill from my attorney showed up and my W opened the envelope. She asked me what it was and I told her that I had the attorney draw up a S agreement. He was still working on the D papers so that they could be filed. I was intent on ending the M over her infidelity.

It was quite a wake up call for her. It made it real for her. For the first time she believed I was going to D her. She eventually got the help she needed and began to help me heal from her horrible choices. (Her choices, not mine, brought this into my life.)

People who are broken and escape into these fantasy worlds don't have the same rational thought processes that you and I do. Sometimes the only thing that works is shattering the facade leaving them to suffer the consequences of their actions.

Tell OM W. Have your W sign the papers. Give them to your attorney (for safe keeping). Protect yourself and your children. This is not punishment for her. It is protecting yourself and your children from further harm. Triage step one, stop the bleeding.

If things change, you can always put a stop to it. Right now she is off in la-la land convincing herself she will get away with this. Show her that she is not going to. You may have to burn the village in order to save it. I know that sounds harsh, but many other people who have weighed in here only had one regret, not being firmer at the beginning. Standing up for yourself is never something you should need to apologize for later.

Actions have consequences. Telling OM W is ruining their life ? No, OM already did that. You are only giving the consequences haste.

Take care of yourself. Today at over 3 years out, my W is better and safe for me. I am doing well. I don't look at this as something that ruined my life, I now look at it as something that taught me some painful lessons. I incorporate those into my new world each day. I am stronger, independent and surer of myself than I have ever been.

You will get there too, just keep going.

Well, it has been an eventful 24 hours. The last contact I had with WS was 1:00 PM on Sunday. I took the kids to have a very fun day with golf, ice cream, parks, one of their favorite meals, etc. They were making each other dizzy in the family room and laughing hysterically so it was good. Meanwhile I was crying inside.

I sent OM spouse a FB message and it was read, but no response yet. There was a phone call from a number I don't recognized five minutes after it read. I did not answer and there was no message. I did not call to see if it was her. Not sure if I will or not.

Today, I went to my IC appointment and then I went to family doctor and they put me on a depression medicine. Both IC and doctor were amazed at how well I was doing.

Fast forward to 4:45 PM as I was preparing to leave work to pick up the kids. Get a text from WS that she is picking kids up at daycare, taking them to baseball and spending time with them and I could pick them up after practice. Whoa???/ Seriously, she could ask? I told her I was already on my way. I got there and she was in parking lot. I walked right in the door and she drove away. I took kids to practice and she met me there. No words between us until kids got in car.

I went over to her and was as nice as I could be given the situation. I said that I would never take kids away from her and we would need to start working out who had them when. I then told her that I could not believe that she would break NC less than 12 hours after I asked her to do it. Grant it she never said she would agree to do it. She proceeded to start an argument with me about him. She said she has no choice but to talk to him since they work together (two different teams and don't have to see each other if they don't want to except at full school meetings) She said she saw him today and they talked. She will continue to talk to him. I could not believe what I was hearing. I blank stared her for a few minutes while she went on and finally I just said "I said you are not to have contact with him and you betrayed that". I then walked to my car and took my kids home.

This is exactly what so many of you said would happen. I can't believe how cold she was to me and how unremorseful she is. Again, this is exactly what was told would happen.

Interesting is all I can say. I won't have to see her tomorrow as she has back to school night. I am not going to contact her but I am sure she will contact on Wednesday about seeing them. I will work out when we will each have the kids for this week and then go from there.

One day at a time, but I think today convinced me that my marriage is over.

Oh, Cytron. You have had a busy pain-filled weekend, but you are coping REALLY WELL. I mean that. I am so impressed with your strength and tenacity. You are so much stronger than you give yourself credit for.

In your most recent update, you said you FB'd the OM's W, but didn't answer a possible return call. Did your message tell her about the A? Or just that you need to "talk"? Just curious. She really needs to know what her scumbag H has been doing.

I've read many words of advice on this site and many say not to make any rash decisions in the immediate aftermath of Dday. I know you believe your M is over. And maybe it is. And that's okay if that's what you choose is right for you. But the rollercoaster has just started and you will have a lot of ups and downs coming. Take time to heal yourself before making any lifelong decisions. Wait to see the fallout. Things may change (or they may not). I remember the "dead eyes" I got from my WH on Dday. Freaky. I did not know this man. At our first MC session, he explained to our C exactly why it was impossible for him to go NC with his AP. He gave himself license to keep contact as long as he wanted. A WS's head is very far up his/her backside when Dday hits during the A. So far up there, their brain is oxygen-deprived. Don't expect anything she says to make sense at this point or to be true.

Stand your ground. Continue to be tough. You are much stronger than you realize. Keep up the good work. Breathe deeply. Take it one moment at a time until you get to one day at a time. Stay hydrated. Eat. Exercise. Sleep. Glad you saw your doc already. You are doing everything right. Remember that! We are all here, we've got your back.

Wow Cytron,

I said that I would never take kids away from her and we would need to start working out who had them when. I then told her that I could not believe that she would break NC less than 12 hours after I asked her to do it. ... She proceeded to start an argument with me about him. She said she has no choice but to talk to him since they work together... She said she saw him today and they talked. She will continue to talk to him. I could not believe what I was hearing.

Boy does this bring back memories. I could have written the same exact thing a few weeks after Dday.

It's a play straight out of the WS Handbook, pg.23.

I guess she still thinks she can have her cake & eat it too.

Time for you to show her that it's one or the other----her fantasy with OM, or the family she has with you.

Get working on filing those papers, that will make it even clearer to her.

And tell OMBW!!!!!!!!

This is continuing because obviously, OMBW doesn't know yet. Once she knows, contact between them will end.

[This message edited by mchercheur at 6:36 AM, September 17th (Tuesday)]

I wish that I was as strong as you are being when everything was hitting the fan for me. You're making good decisions even though they may be the hardest you've ever made.

Stay strong.

You are doing great. She's in major damage control and blameshifting mode.

Stay strong. Don't accept less than you deserve.

It's amazing that everyone says she is in blame shifting mode. I am not surprised because I have been blamed for our whole marriage falling apart for the past 15 years. Nothing surprises me anymore. 180 here I come. This is the most difficult thing that I have had to go through in my life and I came from a childhood of alcoholism, abuse and cheating. Comes full circle I guess.

(((Cytron)))

You are doing the right thing, and that is putting your and your kids needs first.

You cannot control her, or her actions. I would make her sign the separation agreement thought if she has not.

OM's Wife needs to know, not sure what you said in your FB message to her, so does she know? Or did you just hint at it?

Good for you for getting to your Dr. Did you ask for STD testing while there? If not please do this for your own health and peace of mind.

((((and strength)))

But YOU are not the one cheating!

REMEMBER THAT !

Make sure that the OM's BS knows what is happening to her M.

Your WW is in for a rude awakening when the OM dumps her after his BS finds out.

You will get through this.

She did not sign the separation agreement and I know she won't sign it now. She said she read it last night while she came home to get some clothes and other things.

Only thing I said in FB message to her was to contact me. She read it and I received a phone call 5 minutes later from a number that I don't know. I was afraid to answer, but if she calls again, I will answer. Someday I will have the courage to talk to her to tell her my side and show her the text messages.

I'm not sure you understand just how important it is to let the OM's BS know about this affair. If she can compel the OM to end this relationship, it will isolate your WW and leave her with no fuck buddy to turn to. You should phone the BW and arrange a meeting if possible.

If your wife does ask for reconciliation then you need to demand she quits her job immediately. She has to be kept away from OM or it will just flare up again. She is deeply in love with this creep and unless you can terminate their affair you will not get your wife back; thats presuming you want her back at all.

Maybe it's time to change the seperation papers to divorce papers.

Oh, and maybe it's time to tell the school where they teach that they have ruined two marriages.

Most A's can't stand the light of day.

She read it and I received a phone call 5 minutes later from a number that I don't know. I was afraid to answer, but if she calls again, I will answer.

Imagine how much courage it took for her to call the first time. In this day and age many do not leave a message as the call log showing their number is the message "I called". Please take a more active approach. Mail her a letter, call her, something.

She did not sign the separation agreement and I know she won't sign it now.

I do not think she ever intended to sign them. Had you produced them immeadiately, she would have balked. If not, she would have claimed signed under duress or without attorney counsel and had the signature nullified.

Keep taking care of yourself and your kids. Make plans and move forward with your life, I know it is easier said than done.

There is no advantage in telling your WW what she must or should do unless she comes to you statign how sarry and wrong she was, and asking what she can do to try to rebuild the M. Until she is looking to drop the Om and work on the M, anything you tell her to do or not do will fall onto deaf ears, or be "proof" of what a controlling and manpiulative person you are (in her mind).

As for her job, I can understand not wanting your WW to work with the OM if you are trying to work on the M, but if you are headed to D it will be good for her to have a job and income.

The OM's BS really deserves to be informed. She called, you did not pick up, ball is in your court.

She did not sign the separation agreement and I know she won't sign it now. She said she read it last night while she came home to get some clothes and other things

You are handling this very well. None of us ever expected to go through this and given that fact you are doing great. You will and have made mistakes, but it a learning process. Keep learning.

You are not to blame for your W's choices. Say that to yourself when you are feeling bad.

Some things you need to do better -

Other BS - It sounds like you have her number - call her and tell her. No FB, no email. Call and tell her. This is not a method of hurting your W or saving your M, but instead it blows up your W's fantasy, which is not good for her and it is the moral choice to tell another person who they really M'd to. Do it NOW. It's hard and it won't be perfect, but do it.

Work with your lawyer on the following:

Your W - Where is your W staying? If she has moving out contact you A and discuss abandonment. She is not putting her kids first, she is putting herself first, its a fact, use it.

Can you afford your home on your own? If so, make plans to do so. Start separating out accounts, credit cards, etc. Remember that your W has 50/50 access to everything. Cut her off - now.

Start a new credit card in your name, tell her and then call and remove your name from all cards you hold jointly.

Start a new savings and checking under your name only. Move half the money to it.

Papers - make sure the separation papers stipulate that the sharing of money and debit burden stop now. Then have her served at school, with a limit on when she must respond.

What kind of support do you have? A male friend or family to talk to. Let someone you trust in and get a RT shoulder to lean on.

Controversial - You know your situation better than any of us, but in my case I told my W's family. I told her friends. They should all know who they are dealing with and for me I got to see who was a real friend and who was just playing.

This all sucks, but the sooner you get serious about moving forward in a clear, strong direct fashion the better off you and your kids will be.

take care...Keep posting...

Cytron, at the moment your wife still thinks she can keep the OM in her life. That's why she's not even trying to fight for your marriage. He's still there for her. They are still talking, and right now, that's more important to her. She wants him in her life and she's made her choice known to you and to him.

He hasn't had to do that yet. She is prepared to leave you to still have him. Is he prepared to do that for her? As of yet - he hasn't had to decide if his wife still doesn't know, or doesn't know how serious this really is. If he gaslights his wife, (and your wife) he can still keep them both.

But if you tell the other betrayed wife the extent and depth of the affair (and it is deep - at least on your wife's part - because she really is prepared to leave home for it) then suddenly it's not quite as easy for them to continue on as they are doing now.

The other BW may force OM to make a choice too, and it will probably either end the affair, or end both the marriages. A much more serious proposition and one he may not be prepared to take.

It will suddenly make this very real indeed for the both of them, it will blow the fantasy of you just accepting their 'friendship' and them carrying on as they did before out of the water.

You wife is still too fogged up to drop the OM so she won't be the one ending it - but if he drops her - it may shock her into realising what she's in the process of throwing away.

Of course this is assuming that you even want to try for R at this stage. This may be a deal breaker for you by now. R is a gift the bs sometimes gives the wayward, but it is by no means a right of the wayward. It is your choice to make whether you offer R or not. But if you haven't discounted R, then your best chance of attempting it is to end their affair once and for all. You've got no chance of success at all before that happens - and your best ally in getting that done is the other man's wife.

If the OM does leave his wife, that won't be because you told her - it's because he would have chosen to do that for himself. It would not be you that will be inflicting pain on his wife either, quite the opposite actually, it would be you giving her a chance to fight for her own marriage (if that's what she wants), because right now, your wife has no intention of ending things with that poor lady's husband.

Cytron, I know how hard this is and I want to echo everyone else here who is telling you how well you are doing, because you really are. I think it would be best for you to get yourself some legal advice and representation also in case this turns any more ugly than it already is. Keep strong and you will bring this situation to an end - one way or the other. You have my thoughts.

Regardless of if you want your wife back or not, this man has taken so much from your family and his own and his wife deserves to know. The people giving you the advice here know what they are talking about and I hope you listen. Telling her-making her understand-is the ONLY thing that will end the affair if it is to be ended. They won't stop and this will continue. If that is what you want to happen-then just do nothing. But if you want this to end, and you do not want to be a participant in this, then please tell his wife. You had a right to know, and so does she. This is not vengeance, this is justice. His wife needs to know, she needs to be able to make decisions for her own life too!

Regardless of if you want your wife back or not, this man has taken so much from your family and his own and his wife deserves to know. The people giving you the advice here know what they are talking about and I hope you listen. Telling her-making her understand-is the ONLY thing that will end the affair if it is to be ended. They won't stop and this will continue. If that is what you want to happen-then just do nothing. But if you want this to end, and you do not want to be a participant in this, then please tell his wife. You had a right to know, and so does she. This is not vengeance, this is justice. His wife needs to know, she needs to be able to make decisions for her own life too!

Whensitover is absolutely right, you know.

This isn't just about you and your pain. There's another BS who - just like you - should be given the TRUTH as you had to learn it. I can't imagine why you were afraid to talk to this woman and wouldn't call her back after sending her a message telling her to call you. While you avoid telling her the TRUTH, her deadbeat husband has been in her ear 24/7 telling her that you're crazy and imagining things and are going to try to lie to her because you're psychotic/jealous/paranoid - whatever.

But the longer you let it go, the less credibility you HAVE.

Call the BS. Do the right thing.