SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

My post still stands. I'd never dream of making my WSO sign an agreement to not masturbate. IMO it's going WAY too far!

IMO signing an agreement not to masturbate is setting yourself up for failure. I couldn't do it and wouldn't expect my H to (unless it was a source of problems in our M).

It seems like misplaced effort to me.

We are sexual beings. Every marriage is different. I would have preferred my partner to masterbate alone if he needed to or even while watching porn- we had a great sex life before his initial act of infidelity. After the trust was broken my drive went way down. If healthy masterbation would have prevented him from cheating then go for it HOWEVER- as we all know, the cheating isn't because lack of sex, it's because the cheater is looking for validation. That's my opinion anyway. There's nothing wrong with exploring your own body, after all.... it's your body, every part. This isn't 1950. You won't go blind from doing it!!!

my wife now wants to really disregard what you, as a group have said, and now wants me to Sign an Agreement - to say that I will NEVER participate in solo masturbation again.

We only have one small part of the story, and none of us knows the exact issues that you and your wife are facing. So although that small snapshot you posted could SEEM extreme, especially the way you phrased it and in the context you chose to post it in, we don't really know the reasoning behind it. She might have some really valid reasons that make the agreement appropriate.

What we do know...

- You cheated on her and betrayed your marriage.

- Sex, sex drive and masturbation are red flag issues in your relationship.

- Your wife feels very strongly about the subject and needs reassurance that you will respect her needs, but also doesn't trust you enough yet to take your word for it so would like it in writing.

I mean honestly? It sounds like there's way more to the story than the "unreasonable wife" scenario you've posted. It sounds like you have, naturally, lost your wife's trust and she's telling you how she needs you to try to regain it. If you cheated on her and she's willing to give you the gift of a chance to rebuild the marriage, I think that you should put a lot of effort into trying. My guess is that it's not the masturbation, per se, but whatever it represents. Your lack of attention? Your mind fixated on someone else? Her feelings of rejection while you fantasize about another woman? A passive-aggressive message that she's not giving you enough sex, you need more, perhaps it's seen as a subtle warning that you'll get your needs met elsewhere? I mean we can't know. There are a lot of really understandable reasons why she could say this.

After my husband's affair I was also really scared that he was still carrying on his affair in his mind. Masturbation might have been the "perfect" time for him to revisit his affair and relive all the best moments - as far as I knew, since I couldn't read his mind, this could have been just what he was doing. It's SCARY. It's painful and scary to think your spouse could be still in affair-land in their head and *you'd never know it, just like you never knew while they were in the affair*. Huge trigger.

And it would have driven me crazy if I had expressed the need for him to keep me involved in some way in any sex act, even a solo one, because of my fears - and for him to have made me feel like I was some masturbation-shamer, or as if I were a disapproving prude.

So I guess the question is - what is behind this need of hers? What is she trying to tell you about how she feels? What can you do to make your marriage safe, and how can you really listen to her and respond to her needs?

I have to admit that this thread feels like a way to get a lot of people your wife respects to agree with your side of an argument, without us really knowing the entire story.

I am the BS. My story is on my profile.

[This message edited by Betrayed67 at 3:08 AM, December 28th (Saturday)]

I agree that we definitely need more of the story in order to give better and more appropriate advice. At the moment it does seem very one sided.

(1) Within a marriage where there is a significant difference in need for sex between partners, is masturbation an acceptable way to assist with the difference in need?

(2) If you answered Yes to question (1), is solo masturbation acceptable, or should any such masturbation always involve the other partner?

(3) Some people, both Male and Female, describe non-lust masturbation, where it is simply the outlet for a physical need, with no mental imagery taking place - simply the enjoyment of making yourself feeling nice. My question is, do you believe it is possible for either males or females to have such "Non-Lust" masturbation?

These questions are important in any marriage - but it gets VERY complicated after infidelity.

(1) After an affair, there might be a huge change in sexual want, in either direction. If it's the case of the BS feeling extremely self-conscious sexually, then would the WS masturbating make it worse? I second everything Circe said. Also, in the wake of infidelity, you need to rebuilt your shared sexuality. How is your understanding of you and your wife's shared sexuality right now?

(2) Like I said, everything changes post-infidelity. Like Circe said, suppose the BS worries that the WS masturbates solo in order to think sexual thoughts of/yearn for the AP? It's painful enough to know your partner is missing and mourning another person, in fact a person they replaced you with, so to then know they're still getting off to them sexually? Painful, don't you think? How would you help your BS feel safe around a situation like this?

(3) Your question about non-lust imagery… Rather than answer, I'm going to ask: what do YOU think? Is it possible to do it to feel good, to do it without imagery? Or rather without imagery of women other than your wife? What do you think is reasonable or not? And what do you think would be considerate of your wife?

A masturbation contract? Seriously...... ??

I'd refuse to sign it. I'm sorry, but nobody has rights over what you yourself do to your own body.

I've left my previous post because the OP's post got that initial

reaction from me and many others. BUT. I have just read his bs's profile and their story. Sorry, OP, but whilst I still agree that we cannot demand control over what other people do to their own bodies, you can see why she feels she needs it. You treated your wife appallingly and showed we with your actions that she was not good enough for you, then told her that you fantasise about other women when you masturbate. To her, that is like a fantasy of cheating and one you have shown you're not above fulfilling. Rather than posting on here to get people to convince your wife to let you have it all your way, I suggest you start feeling some serious shame for the disloyal and hurtful husband you have been to this woman who saved herself for marriage and for you. If I were her, I'd be wondering if I sold myself too cheap, because you definitely haven't shown yourself worthy of the honour, have you? I'm with you on all your masturbation points- but you haven't told people WHY your wife feels like she needs this. Address the reasons behind the need! Think of your wife before yourself, for once.

Well said Sorceress...

After reading all of these helpful posts, my wife now wants to really disregard what you, as a group have said, and now wants me to Sign an Agreement - to say that I will NEVER participate in solo masturbation again.

Good Christ. What makes ANYONE think they can control a person to this extent? And more importantly, who the hell WANTS to control ANYONE like this?

Even though this statement won't be popular, it's got to be said.

Anyone who thinks their spouse doesn't fantasize about other people while masturbating and honestly thinks their husband/wife should ONLY think about them while doing it, is in for a very rude and disappointing awakening. Seriously.

ETA: Betrayed67, my heart goes out to you. You're a stronger woman than I because I'd never invest in anyone who behaved like your husband. However, the one thing you can't do is control his mind. You simply CAN'T do it, and you'll drive yourself to the brink of madness if you DO attempt it.

.

[This message edited by NeverAgain2013 at 6:12 AM, December 28th (Saturday)]

Your BW has been a member for nearly a year..a very active member. It's interesting that you have only just now posted on SI. More so that you didn't know what a WS is..that sounds as if you haven't had any interest in this site at all, because had you been reading,even occasionally, you would have picked up on what what a WS is...

...and your first posts are about YOU. Not helping your marriage..not helping your wife.

You left out that you told your wife that when you touch yourself you fantasize about other women.

Bottom line..the only opinion that should matter is your wife's.

What are you doing to help her heal? What work have you done on yourself to become a safe partner for her?

I read your BS's profile, and wow - context makes a huge difference, doesn't it.

My take on it is that she's doing her best to stay in the marriage and is giving you chance after chance to be a safe and faithful partner. You seem to take signing contracts seriously and have used them in your marriage to make promises to each other, and you've used masturbation as a way to check out of your marriage, so yes, her request seems like a natural extension of her efforts to put your marriage back together.

I think the larger issues though is that you have cheated and you have a wife who is trying to keep herself safe in the marriage. That takes a lot of compromise, vulnerability and fear-facing on her part that needs to be met with at the very least an equal effort of compromise, being vulnerable and facing fears on yours. The things we do to repair a damaged marriage might not look, from the outside, like long-term sustainable behaviors, but you don't rebuild something sacred and precious from rubble without using some extraordinary efforts and ingenuity. In my experience if you're given the chance to be given rights back into your marriage, you work hard to try all avenues with a true heart.

It sounds like a big part of this problem is the lying and secrecy that seems to go along with your masturbatingporn use. You "don't know" how the porn videos got downloaded on your phone. You "can't remember" how it happened. You broke an agreement the two of you had about porn. You agreed to stop..but you did it anyway. So you broke a promise.

Look..is it reasonable or rational to expect our WH's to never fantasize about other people when jacking it? Probably not. No one can control someone's thoughts. But when you cheat on your BW and lie to her and treat her with the complete lack of consideration and respect that you did, who can blame her for being insecure and scared that when you jack it you are thinking of someone other than her? So what if what she is asking seems unfair? NOTHING about infidelity is fair. Ask ANY BS.

She is giving you another chance..again. Is everything she wants and needs reasonable and fair? Maybe not. But to HER it is. Are you willing to help her feel safe with you? Or are you going to continue to argue over what's fair?

Ah the sex question, it does seem to come back to that one doesn't it? And I want to say that I agree with others that masturbation can be a healthy way for anyone to know what turns them on and can be a good release, in moderation.

I want to turn this around a bit and ask why do you feel your wife does not want sex as much? Or I would ask your wife that as well. Women are sexual creatures just like men, we just take different ways to get there, if you know what I mean. For many people sex is a topic that is very hard to talk about yet is the cruxt of a huge problem. People think you should just magically orgasm, or orgasm together at the same time, or see moons and stars or whatever thing they have been lead to believe. Women do orgasm and they do enjoy sex and can REALLY enjoy sex if relaxed and enjoying themselves. My meaning is that there are 2 people in that bedroom, not just 1. Is she getting the big "O" each and every time? You guys don't have to answer me here but both parties need to be happy in the bedroom and if one does not want sex as much people assume its the "sexdrive" and sometimes in a few women it can be, just like with men, but many times it is not the "sexdrive". A happy wife is a happy life does not mean she gets to have a roof over her head and shop and cook and clean for you....happy in the bedroom for a wife is a happy life.

I think there is probably way more to this issue between the 2 of you.....WAY MORE. You cheated and she does not want sex....with you. And your question was to ask if you can masturbate?

Again, just like your affair, this masturbation question is pardon my pun, only scratching the surface of your needs. You need to dig way deeper on this one and she needs to ask hard questions as to why sex is off the table for her with you. A good sex therapist can really help with all of these issues, but again people are afraid to go to an expert.

And yes, after reading the BS' story, you are exactly on the same track my WH was. Dating sites, porn, yep. You left those out. In fact, you said you didn't watch porn. Exactly like my WH, while he was using porn. No way, he didn't have a problem... I was crazy... And controlling. And other people shared his veiw. So I caved. And before long, he ONLY had sex with the computer... Until it wasn't enough, and he needed real sex. Guess what, so many justifcations proclaiming my imagined disinterest, and I was no longer an option for that... So he enlisted the help of a "high end" prostitute. Who sent him home to me with gonorrea and herpes. For my birthday. That's right, I spent the day before my birthday at the STD clinic, being treated for the clap and starting suppressive therapy for herpes.

Do I think your wife is overreacting? Nope. I wish I had caught it before he hit rock bottom, and put my foot down. But I listened to the people saying I was being too controlling.

Okay, I first found your replies manipulative because you were using the responses here to try to prove your BS wrong and that she's unreasonable.

Then I read her profile.

What is more important to you? Your marriage or masturbating? So you may go a few weeks without sex. Trust me, no one had died from lack of sex. Put your wife's needs first instead of yours right now. You just got caught a week ago with porn on your phone for crying out loud!

After reading Betrayed67's story...whilst I feel for her, I still think the "masturbation contract" is unreasonable. I firmly believe that masturbation is healthy and natural, and nobody should have the right to tell somebody else what they can and can't do with their very own body.

Good Christ. What makes ANYONE think they can control a person to this extent? And more importantly, who the hell WANTS to control ANYONE like this?

Even though this statement won't be popular, it's got to be said.

Anyone who thinks their spouse doesn't fantasize about other people while masturbating and honestly thinks their husband/wife should ONLY think about them while doing it, is in for a very rude and disappointing awakening. Seriously.

ETA: Betrayed67, my heart goes out to you. You're a stronger woman than I because I'd never invest in anyone who behaved like your husband. However, the one thing you can't do is control his mind. You simply CAN'T do it, and you'll drive yourself to the brink of madness if you DO attempt it.

Exactly!

It isn't healthy for some though. Not only that but, shouldn't his focus be on helping his wife heal? Reassuring her? Doing whatever it takes to repair the damage he caused? Instead, he's more concerned about jacking off. It's all about him. Entitlement much?