SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

As ever, thanks... I'll read the last few posts properly when I can get my head together...

This morning I've delved deeper into my WW's deleted texts. A few years ago she had an 'unhealthy' relationship with a neighbour (or at least I was uneasy about it - recurring theme, eh?).

In the last couple of weeks she's denied she ever 'touched him'. Well, that doesn't appear to be the case from the messages I've read, e.g.

- Wot about meeting at the car park by the caravan site opp. Halfords / KFC? My van wil b hidden behind the trees, and if u park in Halfords car park and walk over the road, our vehicles cant b seen 2gether!? XXX

- We doin it 2day then? He he he!

She's about to walk in the door. I'm going to tell her to pack her bags. What if she refuses to go??????

She has the right to refuse to leave, but don't let her believe that.

Be calm, and emotionless when you tell her to go.

If she refuses, and has information that she knows she doesn't have to then tell her she can no longer stay in your bedroom.

Then take her shit and move it to the basement, spare room, or someplace other than your bedroom.

Tell her you will consider letting her back in when she can be completely honest about EVERYTHING.

Then get thee to an Attorney Pronto.

((((and strength))))

You need to cut out this 'I love you shit', its just a weakness for your wife to exploit.Don't tell her how you feel about her; just imply that you are pulling away while being pleasant and friendly.

The words I love you tell her that you are emotionally committed to her, she can implement what ever course of action she wishes to take, and she is in a dominant position. Try talking about your life after separation; what custody arrangement will be fair and when she thinks she will be leaving. Its not about filing for divorce; we haven't got there yet, but its an indication that you are drawing away and thinking about your life post-wife.

You have to give the impression she is gradually losing you and she cannot sit on that fence for much longer, or her marriage will get worse and she could conceivably end up with nobody.

Another good ploy is to let your wife find your computer with the AFF/Harmony/Ashely Madison homepage on the screen. Of course you are not using those services, you just want to give the impression that you are thinking about using them, after your cheating wife has moved her adulterous ass out of the door.

Start thinking creatively instead of helplessly begging your WW to love you when she presently doesn't. Your fly in a spider web act won't save your marriage.

actually, I agree with you OK now. For me at least. I gave absolutely no break to my wife. The minute I found out I told her to leave. I wasn't going to tolerate ANY disrespect or nonsense.

But not everyone feels that way. I'm trying to convince saveus that even if he's not the type to throw her out, like I am, he still needs to identify what he will accept and won't. Otherwise she'll just run over him.

for what it's worth, I threw my wife out immediately. told her I didn't want her anymore. told her to go with her piece of shit. And she immediately fell to her knees and begged to stay. Piece of shit left town he was so afraid of me. And I wasn't nice to her at all for quite some time. I still look at her from time to time and ask "was it worth it?" She's afraid to say anything. I actually feel sorry for her now. She's an ashamed shell of herself. I feel like we should divorce so SHE can heal. Now I'm nice to her, but neither of us can forget it. it's just too horrible what was ruined.

[This message edited by mike7 at 9:59 AM, May 2nd (Friday)]

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n the last couple of weeks she's denied she ever 'touched him'. Well, that doesn't appear to be the case from the messages I've read, e.g.

- Wot about meeting at the car park by the caravan site opp. Halfords / KFC? My van wil b hidden behind the trees,...

Is this a different affair or the same guy as now?

I don't agree with the Ashley Madison advice. You'd look like a hypocrite. Marriage bonds are not so easily broken.

Just be yourself. Protect yourself and your son, not your ego. Affairs are ego-destroying tsunamis. What's destroyed is already destroyed.

It sounds like your wife has been out of the marriage for a long time now. You need to move toward the new reality, which is eventually a decision as to what you want from your future.

No hurries. You're on your timeline now, not hers.

@craig2001

This was another guy. Finding that message has just opened up an old wound. Basically I ended up taking a call from this guy's ex informing me my wife and he were having an affair. Of course, confronted out of the blue like this I defended my wife and, when confronted, she 'admitted' to playing a stupid, immature game with this other guy to make his ex jealous (but that nothing actually happened).

I know you all have me down already as a doormat/complete and utter mug, and this isn't going to improve your opinion of me, but I accepted this (after much soul searching) and buried it until yesterday.

Of course, recent events (and the fact I cannot currently trust a word my wife says) makes making sense of any of this almost impossible.

------

I told her to pack her bags yesterday. She was going (so at least she knew I meant business) then stopped and said, 'this is half my house too', and refused to go. I didn't cover myself in glory, letting my emotions and anger overflow (I know, I know). I shoved her and she fell down at one point - I know, disgusting behaviour and I wouldn't have blamed her for calling the police (I am not and never have been a violent person/husband and know the stress I'm under is no excuse whatsoever) and so, again, I am beating myself up and feeling guilty. I won't let it get to that again, I promise (myself).

Yesterday was the lowest I've felt in the last three weeks, and that's saying something.

Believe you me, telling her to pack her bags (and meaning it/seeing in her eyes she knew I meant it) really empowered me (for want of a better word) yesterday. She's not the kind of woman to fall on her knees and beg for forgiveness - that is never going to happen. But she did cry uncontrollably yesterday evening and show me a couple of signs of 'getting it'. But if she ever 'gets it', it's going to be a long, hard road to get there and I've got to figure out if my current misery is worth it, whether there is anything left to save (I know what the general opinion around here is).

No matter what, I think it's time to check out the 180 again and really put it into practice. For ME and to detach, not to make her jealous or anything - I do get it.

I feel I need some time 'away' (from this site) to figure this all out for myself. Your advice and support has been invaluable and has given me much to think about. I'm not forgetting any of it. And no doubt I won't be gone for long...

Thanks again everybody - I can't tell you how much your support means to me.

Saveus-

I wish you all the best, and that you find some sort of peace in the next steps you want to take, whether reconciliation or separation.

This forum is great for advice of people who have been there. However, it is still your decision to make and your path to follow. Maybe you'll say in the future I wish I'd listened, hell maybe I will too, but you have to get there you're way.

Not meaning to be dismissive, but the old affair seems a little less important than the fact that as of six days ago she is still having sex with this guy, while you help pay the bills. You need to file and get the process going before she provokes you again.

This does not just pertain to you but I continue to be amazed at how many guys blindly look the other way when their wives go away overnight and then get " surprised" when it is not as it seems. Especially when it occurs fairly regularly. Girlfriends are the best cover for a cheater.

Anyway I apologize for the rant. Get the D filed and I hope you find the strength to stop trying to win her back.

Let's see, wife still sleeping with her lover.

Wife refuses to stop

Wife refuses to leave the house.

Wife already had an affair.

The one little bit of "empowerment" you got ended up with you shoving her to the floor.

I've read the thread and seen excellent advice but still you want to do it your way because it's your life.

She's already emasculated you to the point, the little bit of temporary power you got from telling her to leave was blown out the water when she refused leading you to try and regain that fleeting empowerment by being physical with her.

The question is, if she doesn't stop seeing him, what are you going to do? You have no leverage whatsoever. None.

By your own admission, she's the most stubborn women you've ever met. Refuses to be transparent.

Plain fact is she has nowhere else to go, and you've got a child, so for now she'll play along and keep everything sweet but detachment has come and gone, and if an exit presents itself, she will be gone.

Saveus,

It is VERY important that you recognize something:

I've got to figure out if my current misery is worth it, whether there is anything left to save (I know what the general opinion around here is).

I know that you can't see this at the moment, but this site is very pro-reconciliation. But, as the name of the site states, its primary goal is to Survive Infidelity. You have to get out of this disaster that is called infidelity, so you can heal---and be the person that you want to be. And this starts with putting your best interests first.

Don't be confused---your *wants* aren't necessarily your best interests. You *want* your wife back. You *want* your old life back. We get this, as these were also our wants when we had our D-days. But as you are painfully learning, a remorseless(and that is what your wife currently is---don't fool yourself) spouse is possibly the worst thing that we may encounter in life. And we don't know how to deal with them.

That is why you are getting bombed with all this "negativity" that you feel. What you perceive as a "negative---head for divorce" mentality, is really nothing more than the actions that you need to take to survive infidelity. You may reconcile, or you may divorce---but it starts with taking back control of your life, and NOT accepting poor behavior and boundaries in your life, and around your child---ESPECIALLY from your wife. She was the one that you were supposed to confide in and trust fully...and she stabbed you in the back.

Take back control of your life. Listen to the others here. Believe me, if baring our soul, being overly nice and attentive, and accepting their transgressions without consequences was the recipe for reconciliation, every member here would be reconciled. But the sad truth is that this not only will fail, but will compound the problem.

When you think about, standing up for yourself, and not tolerating poor behavior, is not a bad thing. It is a moral thing. Please don't look at being strong as some sort of negative. It took a lot of members here(raising my own hand), a long time to realize this. We are simply trying to help you from going down the wrong path.

It is obvious that you are the type of man who can put up with a lot of garbage thrown at him until it reaches a certain point. And you have allowed a great deal of garbage to be thrown at you by her.

Her disrespect towards you has now hit a boiling point.

Remember that all she is showing you is complete disrespect, you dont deserve it and you never did deserve it.

Act accordingly towards a person showing you nothing but disrespect. On the street or at work, you would walk away from that person.

Do that now. Mentally walk away from this person. The complete 180. This is probably the hardest thing you can do, especially being in the same house.

But she is most likely going to continue to treat you as crap.

Resist letting her get to you.

@CantSeeInTheDark: Thank you. I appreciate the words, which make me feel I'm not wrong even if I make a complete hash of this. Believe me, that's not what I'm trying to do!

@Badhurt: Point taken but that's me. I trust people. I'm going to look after myself (and my son) but I'm not heading down the D route just yet (I was very close yesterday, mind you).

@Tren0R201: You're dead right and I'm ashamed. If I wasn't I wouldn't have admitted to it to you all.

@jb3199: I know. I am listening. And I'm not denying my judgement isn't severely impaired right now, by my love for my wife in spite of it all, and my desire to save my marriage/family. I know it must be frustrating for you and everyone trying to save me from going down the wrong path, but you all remember what it's like to be 3 weeks out. Yes, some men throw their wives out immediately. I feel weak for not being like that but I'm not and I can't change who I am (nor do I want to). Nor do I want to be walked over. That's why I need to 180. And go to my counselling session on Wednesday. Above all other advice I've received here, I'm trying not to be rushed into anything.

@craig2001

I just took myself out of the house for an hour or so. Went to a pub & sat there with a pint of beer. This is a real rarity - me without the family at the weekend. My wife's reaction again was interesting - as soon as I left the house I received a text saying, 'SORRY I'm screwing this up! '.

she 'admitted' to playing a stupid, immature game with this other guy to make his ex jealous (but that nothing actually happened).

Saveus, I got the EXACT same excuse from my STBXW. The reason I'm pointing this out is that they ALL follow the same cheaters script. Her behavior can be freakishly predictable if you can get yourself detached ASAP to see it all from out of your own fog. In the midst of a storm you need shelter first before you can start a fire and get warmed. The 180 is your toolbox to construct your mental shelter in this shit storm she put you into. Know the difference between wayward regret and remorse in the healing library so that you can shield yourself from the mindfucking she is about to do to you with her cheap apologies to suck you back into the situation again. I'll tell you the thing you need to pay attention to are her ACTIONS. Look for remorseful actions, not words of regret.

Thanks Jduff. Not being able to trust her/believe anything she says makes me feel physically sick. You're right, I'm no doubt inside my very own fog right now. My sixth sense certainly isn't happy about my WW's explanation of her relationship with the other guy a couple of years back.

As for actions showing remorse, I've told her - I've seen precious little.

It's still so hard - for me anyway - to walk away. I can't think clearly so am not making the mistake of rushing into anything.

I received a text saying, 'SORRY I'm screwing this up!

Dude..... sorry youre in this infidelity bullshit - it blows....hardest thing I have ever lived trough.. you will be OK - with or without her.....you will be OK.

I would recommend a "full court press" 180....R is not gonna happen with her having a BF...will NOT work. She has got to get outta the fog...

Time to "draw a line in the dirt"......like Travis at the Alamo..set your limitations - ONCE...then back it up!!!! Time to "lawyer up".......no, Bro....I didn't want a divorce - wanted to share the FWW even less....

As guys we like to "fix things".....this, however you cannot fix....and you are not gonna "nice guy" he out of her affair.....time to "go Alpha" on her.....(no - not advocating eating your young).....crying, begging, whining will not "win her back" - and its not very sexy either....

Divorce papers are a huge reality check for cheating wives - and yours needs one - really bad!!! (a lot of divorces never make it to the final hearing). Yours is seeing unicorns, rainbows and is farting fairy dust.....she need to see some reality....and the sooner the better - that emotional attachment grows over time....do something NOW! Sometimes we need to be willing to lose something in order to get it back....

I have done the 180 on 2 cheating wives....one ended in divorce (my choice) and the other went on to a pretty good R (MY choice, also) - both are in my profile - feel free to read it...the last one pulled her head outta her ass and worked very hard on her "pre-affair" issues.....all before my "give a shit" quit working.....

'SORRY I'm screwing this up!

Until you get a "snotting, blubbering, crying, im sorry I hurt you, mascara dripping off her chin" apolgy... assume its over between you two......and procede accordingly....only one "bitch seat" on my Harley - wife jumps off - I don't want her (rhetorically speaking).....fake it till you make it....again..no, I didn't want a divorce - wanted to share her even less - get it?

The 180 is NOT designed to "win her back" - but sometimes that is the "end result......

Ya got 3 in your marriage - dude....someone has to go......KWIM?

I am NOT trying to beat you up here - your wife has already done that.....

This shit storm will not blow over with a simple "im sorry", a weekend of "make up sex", and a couple of trips to a MC.....R takes time - gotta get the affair over first!!! NC needs to be in place......then the long road to R......

Keep us posted....

Bufffalo

Saveus

You and I are at very similar timelines, with unremorseful spouses that are refusing to leave the house.

Do I still love him? Yes, but I've decided love is stupid.

Do I want better for me and my son? Yes. But it's proving to be the most difficult thing I've ever done.

Do I think he respects me and our child right now? Hell no.

I'm trying to 180 while living in the same house. Sometimes I can do it, other times I fail miserably, and then feel even worse because I couldn't do it. Then I feel guilty because it feels like I've turned my back on my marriage, even though I know at the back if my mind that he's checked out already. Then I think I'm not ready to go down the d road. Then he does something, or says something, or sometimes just looks in a certain way that breaks my heart a little bit more.

I have my first IC on Friday. I think I'll need it. I'm starting to feel the anger kicking in.

I have an appointment with a solicitor on the 12th.

Keep searching for your path. I hope you don't walk into too many lamp posts in the dark. That was corny, but makes my point lol

Don't turn your back on advice, even if if hurts to hear. I believe we will both be in a place to hear it when we are ready.

I just took myself out of the house for an hour or so. Went to a pub & sat there with a pint of beer. This is a real rarity - me without the family at the weekend. My wife's reaction again was interesting - as soon as I left the house I received a text saying, 'SORRY I'm screwing this up! '.

She's an interesting one. Already seeing a life of cake-eating (she'll be stubborn about what's necessary to reconcile, but doesn't really want to see you taking active steps to create a new you).

I'm sure you're quite troubled by this, too, but the shoving bothers me. If for no other reason, this would be rationale for a firm 180 implementation. You could tell her, "I'm horrified that I put my hands on you in anger. For that reason, and since you won't move out, we need to share this house without interacting any more than is absolutely necessary to ensure our son's health and welfare."

I don't see you as a doormat. When we're married - at least those of us who take marriage seriously - we create an identity that is heavily tied to that person. Our instinct is to preserve that identity, even when our partner is acting like a horse's ass. You may feel a little doormattish now, but in the long run, you will feel better about yourself, success or failure, in that you're doing what you can to preserve the marriage. That's who you are. Who knows? Your wife may get it - I guarantee you she's looking at OM with a newly critical eye.

But, of course, this isn't her first rodeo of infidelity. I think that matters a lot. I don't want to sound too negative, but your chances aren't good. Her instincts, again, seem to lie in wanting to eat a lot of cake. Which means that even if she discards this OM (I think this is somewhat likely), she might still pursue new opportunities. There are no shortcuts for the work she needs to do to create a new her.

text saying, 'SORRY I'm screwing this up!

Push her on this then.

Tell that yes, that correct and now that you know, do something about it.

Words are useless without actions or actions speak louder than words.

And R cannot be done via text messages either.

You make the rules, ALL of the rules now. All of the rules of R and transparency. She can be stubborn all she wants to be, BUT, she lost her privacy the minute she had an affair. And apparently that was a couple of years ago.

You make the rules.

And first off, she stops the childish disrespect attitude towards you.