SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

i disagree... you're being a little bit of a doormat. but you're getting better. her sister clearly has treated you with disrespect.

i really, really hope that you've noticed that as you've started to stand up for yourself, asked her to leave, etc.... she's starting to change her tune.

so keep it up. remember, she's just NOW starting to get scared and starting with all the "i'm sorry" like texts. If you give in now... you've lost your edge.

now really is the time to ramp up the 180. It's the only way she'll begin to understand. And she really has a lot to learn. she's just been very disrespectful to you.

All of those texts are about her. She's hung up on how this is going to impact her. There was no remorse in those texts at all. Just more manipulation and mind games. She may be getting scared but she's far from remorseful and certainly not thinking about your pain.

Another fact I didn't want to learn - my WW confessed all to her sister (like a sister to me too all these years) at the end of January. Now I know there are divided loyalties and I know how close they are, but boy do I feel even more stupid now. Only the other week I popped into my WW's sister's to say hi. I don't really feel any anger towards her though - is this normal or am I being a doormat again?

If I were you I would be livid. I realize this is her sister and her loyalty may lie there, but a much stronger argument can be made for the fact that she is not a friend to your marriage. I would ask her why she let her sister do that to you, your son, and your family. If she cared about her sister or your family at all, she would have tried to stop her and if she didn't, she should have told you so that you could stop her. My aunt not only knew about my mother's A, she double dated and allowed her and her AP to F at her house. My family was blown apart. I never forgave my aunt. My cousins still wonder why I din't go to my aunt's funeral. Nope. Not a friend to your marriage or your family as far as I'm concerned.

Agree with Mike7 and Brandon808. This is not remorse you are seeing in those texts. That is sorry I got caught regret, still all about her.

Hang in there and keep doing what you are doing.

Agree with Mike7 and Brandon808. This is not remorse you are seeing in those texts. That is sorry I got caught regret, still all about her.

There is a huge difference between remorse and regret that eventually you will learn. I had an unremorseful WW and it's the worse. These texts are regret, with guilt. There isn't much said about your pain. I personally don't understand a mother who puts her selfish needs ahead of her child with scarlet fever...I mean really dude?

The whole process on your part here is about posturing. I learned the hard way and it cost me my marriage. You think you're different, you think your marriage is different. Well bad news..it's not. It took a psychiatrist I went to (who had been through infidelity himself) to explain it to me. The more you try to nice her back with letters and convincing talk, the worse it will get. But know what? MY relationship was different. She would wake up after my letters. What she did was skim through them and tossed them aside. That regret she's showing in her texts will wear off shortly you will see. My feeling here is she's already gone in her head. Let her go. It's the only way you have any chance here. Most times you have to be willing to end the marriage in order to save the marriage.

Don't fall for the Bullstuff comments of regret and missing you BLAH BLAH BLAH. Its mindgames. Every little comment she sends you, You start get weak and and have hope because you want to reconcile more then her. She is mourning the loss of the cake eating cheating life she had without you having clue. She is not sorry about her actions because she has consistently cheated and is STILL seeing the OM.

Her actions will always speak louder then her words. She will manipulate the love you have for her because she knows your personality.

I dont know what it is about the UK but it seems the most blatantly deceitful cheating are women from the UK.

Dude....

Why don't you stay at yr parents tonight after [name of uncle]s meal? Time apart and all that..

Time "apart and all that" ??? Good grief ....Bro...I do hope you realize that's all "code" for......I have a date tonite with my BF!!! She isn't gonna be at home watching chic flics on cable....

I know this cheating shit sucks...hell it blows.....I get that... You know shes got a BF.....you know shes NOT ended it....it is still going on and shes trying to get you out of her way to see the BF again....

You have to do something pro-active.....something to let her know her actions are NOT acceptable to you....something to get her out of her fog.....and you are NOT gonna "nice guy" her back into your arms....WILL NOT HAPPEN..

She's 'threatened' (in a non-threatening way) to go several times this morning, and to come back in the morning as our son is sick.

Go where?

Dude...your wife has a BF...and you know it.... Have you set your limitations...let her know what is acceptable behavior and what is not? Openly dating another man SHOULD be a huge dealbreaker.....KWIM? If one of my cows keeps jumping the fence to "visit" the neighbors bull - shes gonna wind up at the sale....I held my wife to the same standard...and I conveyed that to her (yeah...im a redneck)..but you get the idea....

No use in telling her what your limits are IF you are unwilling to back it up.....again....NO...I didn't want a divorce....just wanted to share the wife even less....that is the question you need to ask yourself....which is worse for you?

At this point in my FWWs A....I didn't believe anything she said....and not much of what I saw......cheaters lie...they blame shift...trickle truth...even rewrite the marital history to justify what they are doing...expect it.

Set your limitations...then back it up...

Bufffalo

Are you ok?? I'm worried like crazy and it's making me sick to my stomach! It may have had to come to this just to make me realise what I've lost and I'm [heartbroken smiley]

I have no idea how to handle this either! I feel like I should just go? I'm not convinced this is all undoable

This time apart is killing me!! I'm sat here in print Wales beer garden and I just want to be with you right now!! I know I've f***** this all up but I want us to sort this together!

Why don't you stay at yr parents tonight after [name of uncle]s meal? Time apart and all that.. [ ] Can't help but feel like you'll be trying to hurt me back now

Love to hear your thoughts on all that.

Like Brandon and the others have stated, all those texts say is "me, me, and more me".

Ask yourself---What is she DOING to help save the marriage? What is she DOING to help ease your pain?

[This message edited by jb3199 at 12:20 PM, May 4th (Sunday)]

As a woman, fuck that bitch. Seriously. Ohhh she wants it to work! I hate that phrasing--was it a fucking act of God that disrupted your marriage and that poor little her is now contending with? No! I think not! It was her choices. And she wants to get it both ways--keep the hubby and her man on the side. Are you fucking kidding me? Put her on mute this instant. NOTHING she says has ANY meaning.

FTB!

@Edie: No, I saw her a week or two before finding any of this out.

@mike7/yearsofpain25: My WW walked in as I was finishing off my last post, so I didn't really get time to 'edit' it - I just hit Submit. What I said about her sister is based on a message from my WW to the OM, saying she'd told her but that she could trust her with her life. I haven't actually yet come across any text from my WW to her sister (perhaps there isn't one).

@Brandon808/SeanFLA: I can't disagree. I hear you.

@buffalo: Well, I've just spent the last two hours in the bathroom (most unlike me!), being completely selfish, and I'm off out to my uncle's 60th birthday meal in about 10 minutes. So, yes, she could invite the OM over (doubtful though) or spend all night sobbing down the phone to him, but I swear to you now, I am not going to give it one thought. I'm MAD but I'm putting family first. They are a great bunch, and I'm the luckiest man alive to have them. They also have always loved my WW...

As for your 'Go where?' question, it all depends when you catch her/how 'attacked' she's feeling. This morning had her mum's/sister's/the OM's... I feel in a much better place right now to let this all go right over my head. I only wish this feeling would last.

I'm running out of time here, got to go, so will check your other comments in the morning. But thanks again guys, your support means the world.

I have no idea how to handle this either! I feel like I should just go? I'm not convinced this is all undoable

Excuses to continue the affair and feeling way too sorry for herself only.

Talk logically to her so she can't just sob and cry poor little me.

If she has no idea how to handle this, ask her point blank, handle what.

Of course she knows how to handle this, stop the affair right now. This isnt high school stuff, this is real life and she is about to throw hers away.

By now I guess it is late night over there. I hope everything was okay when you got home, because I do believe, no in fact I know, that her telling you to go to your uncles for dinner most certainly meant she was going to be with the OM.

My fWW did the exact thing to me one time. Telling me to go to my friends for a big preplanned event. Telling me how it would do me good to go there. Yes, so she could be with the OM.

I do think it is time for you to take the gloves off and get the affair stopped and find out your legal rights.

Remember all's fair in love and war, and affairs are both love and war.

As much as we wanted that, our lives aren't very similar to what they were before discovery. There's no scenario in which you and your wife go to counseling and apply a band-aid that helps the wound heal.

The past is friendly and comfortable; the future resembles a Suzanne Collins dystopia.

Once we learn to embrace the future, it looks a little less like the Hunger Games and a little more comfortable.

Tell your family. Let them be family. Not so sure about her family. I tried talking to my ex's parents, because he was a minister and liked to pretend he was some sort of moral authority. Didn't get much of a reaction - he's seen too much to give a damn.

Your wife, on the other hand, is being quite annoying. She wants out, but doesn't have the decency to lift a finger. You've got to try what you're going to try, and, who knows, it might work. But as soon as you're mentally in the right place, get the best lawyer you can find.

@jb3199: In answer to your question, my WW is doing precious little to save our marriage.

@norabird: I hear your anger (and am grateful for it). I'm just trying not to let mine overwhelm me again. It's a very fine balancing act, and this is what I'm struggling with this morning.

@craig2001: Thanks for the concern. I got in around 11.45 (I think it was) last night. The house was quiet. I didn't rush up to bed. Sat putting the pics I'd taken at the meal on the computer first. As for your - and others' - assumption that my wife told me to go out last night, I don't think I said that, did I? In fact, the way I felt yesterday morning (it's almost 24 hours since D-Day 3), I said I wasn't going. It was later in the day when I thought, why shouldn't I go, as difficult as it might be??? She would have expected me to stay in, mope, provoke another conversation, maybe even shout at her (after all those text conversations I subjected myself to yesterday). I think it was the best move AND I didn't let family down. Yes, she could well have spent the evening texting the OM but what the hell am I'm supposed to do about that?? Even if she'd sent an NC letter by now, how I can trust her to do anything right now??? This is the dilemma - how to fully and comprehensively do a 180 whilst at the same time having doubts/fears/panic attacks almost, and not showing these things??

@RedSox Nation: The advice from everyone on telling or not telling family is conflicting (though I respect your opinion). It seems to me that I can't take it back once it's out there, despite the overwhelming urge to spill the beans. The main motivation would be ME, not getting back at my WW - though I confess to a huge amount of frustration at the lack of consequences for her actions so far.

--------

So, this is where I'm at today. Again, only five hours' sleep. I didn't even want to get up as I felt it was showing weakness (he can't sleep, he must be going over it all in his head again) when I know the only way is to show strength. And my WW knows about this forum (though I'm pretty sure doesn't know which it is) so would assume - quite rightly - that I was going to go back on it (like there's something wrong with that).

One important point that never got made - I NEVER DID SEND THAT LETTER I WROTE TO MY WW. That was D-Day 2. I told her it existed but that she'd now never see it. She acted like she didn't care. Maybe she didn't.

I want to throw the kitchen sink at the 180. But at the same time I still want to have things out with her. How are the two mutually compatible? Yes I can try to keep things brief but I know me - you've seen how much I like to talk, to get things off my chest. And after seeing the extent of the lies/deception in those text conversations yesterday, I don't know how I can keep that in today. But I see there might be a good point in doing so. If I tell her I've now had access to a heap load more, her defences will go up and she'll be even more careful. On the other hand, I want her to know and feel the SHAME for what I've read, the hurtful, despicable sexual comments and disrespect for me in HER texts back to the OM. What would be your advice, bearing in mind I want to stay strong and ramp up the 180?

It's a bank holiday today, so no work... Not sure I can get back tomorrow but know if I don't, it will undermine my efforts.

Another thing that has MIGHTILY pissed me off is the total disregard for my health. I now know she had sex 2/3 years ago with an ex-neighbour and we carried on having sex afterwards. Only recently, on D-Day 1, I thought my WW had only been unfaithful on April 4th. What a joke. And, despite my insistence from week 1, my WW hasn't yet been checked (excuses range from she works nearby - so I say, let's go to another town - to she's on her period) so I've got a good mind to sort myself out on my own tomorrow. All along I've said we should go together. But it's about time I branched out on my own.

Of course, even if she does get tested this week, I'm far from convinced she won't sleep with the OM again.

So, back to NC. Again, how to 180 and tackle her lack of effort/willingness in this area?? I need to lay the law down, I know, but you've seen the shocking lack of respect she has for me.

One more thing, and this will horrify you (so I'm loathe to mention it - part of me still wants to protect my WW or at least the wife I married) - in the middle D-Day 3 yesterday morning, she suddenly said, '...and don't you start thinking for one second that that boy isn't yours'. I broke down immediately on hearing this and curled up on the bed, sobbing... I want to believe she wasn't being intentionally cruel (if she was, she reached a new low) but if she was, she's succeeded in putting a very sick, warped, new worry in my already overloaded brain. I want to ignore it as, frankly, on one level it wouldn't matter - the love I have for my son will never, EVER change. He is mine, no matter what. But what a cruel thing to do to me in my current frame of mind.

My God, writing this all down makes me realise how bad things truly are. I never thought any of this would happen to me (I know, everyone says that)

@Edie: Not sure I quite got what you meant about those texts being 'a way of avoidance'. Which are you hoping I'm ignoring, the ones I've unearthed from the A, or the ongoing everyday 'I love you' ones from the OM? If the latter, I don't quite understand why you say you hope I'm ignoring them, and 'they may escalate as a result'?

(By the way, how do you quote another post on this forum?).

------

I could go into more detail about the text conversations between my WW and the OM, but I bet you can guess. It was exactly what I would have expected - a friendship that turned to flirting that became more and more sexual until they couldn't wait to get their hands on each other. Makes my blood run cold. There were some details (e.g. the two of them in the disabled toilet at a pub we take our son to regularly as it has an children's play area inside) that I could've done without knowing, but I've found I'm one of those BSs who needs to know the gory details. I have no idea why, as it's sickening torture.

I tell you one thing though, I now have a 'nice' collection of very embarrassing pics that the OM sent my wife. I don't want to lower myself, but maybe the OM knowing this might sway him if he refuses to stop contacting my WW (I know, dealing with her & NC comes first). He seems to put a lot of emphasis on his very important job (cough).

Sorry not to be clear. Saying things by text rather than face to face, saying important things, is an avoidance of saying them really; so SHE is avoiding talking, but communicating by text, so she can say she tried talking. Absolutely you should be ignoring them.

@Edie

Ah, of course, thanks for clarifying. That's very helpful. It certainly is true I get the odd revelation out of her mouth, but I'm almost guaranteed to get more (in quantity if not quality) by text when I proceed to get on with what I'm doing (even yesterday, she reluctantly went out as I wanted some time out). All I replied was to say I wasn't sure we could work it out, literally just that. In future I'll do my best to ignore.

saveus ...

i rarely "offer suggestions" because im still going through the grinder myself. D-day 1 (admits to a long term emotional affair) was june of last year, d-day 2 (admits long term affair was actually physical),3 (admits to sexting), & 4 (admits to 2 one night stands) were in january.

on d-day 1 my wife justified and blame shifted - the affair wasnt wrong and it was all my fault. we entered a false reconciliation at that time. i was stupid and basically rug swept the emotional affair under the carpet at that time because my wife said it was over and agreed to no contact.

things went "okay" during this false reconciliation until we hit the first real problem that we had to face together. then, because we had built our reconciliation on lies and bullsh1t ... it exploded into our faces.

since then ive endured massive amounts of trickle truth, as my subsequent d-days reveal. true remorse began to appear around d-day 2. the only reason i got that and we survived it - together - is because i found this site. without the wise advice of people on this site i would have ... again ... done it all wrong.

not that i did it all right because i didnt. each time i ignored the advice it later came out that they had been correct all along and my ignoring their advice later caused problems.

for example: people in affairs are in a fantasy world and because they are in a fantasy world they arent grounded in reality. accept it as a given that your wife didnt use any protection. she will look you in your eyes with tears coming pouring down her cheeks and swear she did - 99% chance is that she is lying.

however, there is a point to my now lengthy post:

the people who have been on this site a long time have seen 10s of 1000s of relationships and marriage implode due to infidelity. after awhile they begin to recognize certain characteristics that are common to certain types of cases.

imagine a flow chart. it has different types of cases - case A, case B, case C, and so on - long term affairs, one night stands, emotional or physical or both for affair types, serial cheaters, etc, etc.

then each branches into a series of options. for instance, the wandering spouse refuses no contact or breaks no contact or implements no contact, transparency or not, trickle truth or not, remorse or not, etc, etc, etc. some of these branches are also for the betrayed spouse to make - try to nice them back or not, hold firm or not, etc, etc.

each step on the flow chart leads to another. always. without fail. in every case. with no exceptions.

one of the hardest things for me to accept was that my marriage, the circumstances of my wife cheating, how she cheated, the lies she told, and our attempts to reconcile fit exactly on this flow chart.

i had imagined that she and i were engaged in this very singular experience and that it was all somehow "unique".

its not. its all been done before. again, the people who have been around awhile on this site have long since learned to recognize certain characteristics and traits common to cheating and cheaters and to build a mental flow chart for that specific type of case ... long before your particular situation ever even occured.

in one way this is one of the hardest things to accept -> that your situation is in no way unique (except that this time its "you" instead of someone else going through it), its (again) all been done before. there is nothing unique about the type of affair your wife had and the series of choices, decisions, and responses to them.

this is also a critical thing to understand. right now your wife knows everything - after all, she was doing it. you know practically nothing - you got caught by surprise and certainly didnt know about the development of the affair or else you would have tried to put a stop to it long ago. neither of you know much about what to do now.

however, the people on this site DO know. they have seen it all 10s of 1000s before. when you stop thinking your case is unique and instead accept that its just a particular type of affair type and that the flow chart exists ... that also makes it easier to accept and implement the advice of the more experienced people on this site. they know what works and you can draw on their collective experience. this puts YOU in the driver seat again because neither you nor your wife have much or any experience in the aftermath of an affair whereas YOU have the collective experience of many, many experienced people to draw on.

the advice they are trying to give you is following the flow chart. trust them. one of the worst things about being cheated on is that it is new terrain for us and because its new we dont know how best to accomplish what is necessary. trust the collective wisdom on this site. they DO know.

To quote someone, use the square brackets to surround QUOTE before the quoted text and /QUOTE afterward. Like this, only use square rather than curly brackets.

{QUOTE}Silly stuff RSN writes{/QUOTE}

If someone in my family experienced this - someone I had deep loyalty to before his or her spouse - I'd damned well want to know and support him or her. It's a life-changing event. Few things are harder to live through. It's a couple of steps below death of a child, but it's up there.

Stop worrying about what your wife thinks. She doesn't. She doesn't check your mood like she checks the weather before going out. She doesn't judge every action of yours as weak or non-weak. She's simply not as invested in you as you are in her.

Her actions, right now, are motivated by what will get her through this with the least disruption to how she sees her life. She liked having an affair without you knowing. She likes the safety and comfort of raising your son together. All this brings excitement to her life.

Your knowing about the affair (and objecting) throws a damper on this. In a perfect world for her, you wouldn't care. Maybe you'd even find a girlfriend on the side. Some people do this. I'm with you - it's not what I want from a marriage. But some people believe marriage doesn't require fidelity.

So don't worry about her feelings or judgments. She's not worried about yours.

When you tell her to NC or 180 her or demand tests... she really doesn't see where you're going because right now she doesn't want to go to the same place. It makes you unpredictable, and that's frustrating to her.

What does she want? Have you tried asking her, without anger and without making any demands? If you ask her what she sees as a good life five years from now, how does she answer?

If you have this information, you can communicate on her level and (and this is crucial) still make your own decisions on how to move forward without sacrificing your own needs.

This WAS cruel. And calculated.

Even as a BW, I would never dream of saying that to my WH, no matter how much he is hurting me. Christ, it even made me cry, but then again, I'm having an emotional day too.

This bank holiday sucks!!

One more thing, and this will horrify you (so I'm loathe to mention it - part of me still wants to protect my WW or at least the wife I married) - in the middle D-Day 3 yesterday morning, she suddenly said, '...and don't you start thinking for one second that that boy isn't yours'. I broke down immediately on hearing this and curled up on the bed, sobbing... I want to believe she wasn't being intentionally cruel (if she was, she reached a new low) but if she was, she's succeeded in putting a very sick, warped, new worry in my already overloaded brain. I want to ignore it as, frankly, on one level it wouldn't matter - the love I have for my son will never, EVER change. He is mine, no matter what. But what a cruel thing to do to me in my current frame of mind.

[This message edited by CantSeeInTheDark at 4:55 AM, May 5th (Monday)]

2x4 Very Gentle

Beta. NiceGuy

You know your wife is still cheating. I know you don't want to believe it or want to rug sweep but it's happening. To this point you're still protecting her, who's in control now? She is.

Why haven't you exposed? She thinks nothing of jeopardising your family, trampling on your vows and right now is doing everything to keep you quiet and cover her a$s without actually being remorseful.

You know she's still in contact with OM, why would she stop? Because you cry from time to time?

I'm not belittling your tears but this is a woman who barely has any regard for you let alone respect. She cheated, you protect her. You cry she feels a little sorry for you but it's not remorse.

You're stuck in an indecisive holding pattern where nothing is being done. You're carrying this all by yourself. F*ck no!

Expose! Tell your folks, tell her folks, stop carrying this all by yourself but also let her know her actions have consequences and you're not a doormat!

You do not move out of your marital bed. She does.

This - "Why don't you stay at yr parents tonight after [name of uncle]s meal? Time apart and all that.."

She wants time apart, tell her to go to her parents, but you do not leave the house. Again, stop letting her drive this. Take control!

This is a perfect description of her motivation.

Her actions, right now, are motivated by what will get her through this with the least disruption to how she sees her life

Many WS's function from this standpoint.

Like I said before I believe before you throw down the gauntlet on 180, you HAVE to simply lay out what your minimal needs are.

NC, Transparency. You tell her you will no longer tolerate her disrespect, you have moved her stuff to your sons room, she will be sleeping there, and when she can start showing you through actions that she has decided to save her M, then you will be there to listen.

NOTHING LESS will be tolerated, make it clear, be calm, without tears if possible. Show her you are taking off your ring too. This very real gesture brings home the reality of it.

If she suggests time apart, you let her leave. NOT YOU.

Make your to do list for tomorrow when it's not a bank holiday, start lining up your ducks.

See a lawyer, and DON'T tell her you are doing it.

(((and strength)))