SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I haven't.read the replies yet but I will. Those sites are hust such a bad idea. "It's ok to cheat and you'll never get caught!!" Nice. I hate them all. From AM, to craigslist to backpage. All a bad idea.

[This message edited by Raspberry at 8:29 PM, June 13th (Friday)]

WW wouldn't tell me the name unless I promised to keep the information to myself and not use it. Maybe I should have taken a harder line but I was desperate and beaten down and accepted her offer.

Ahhh...I remember that trap. Been there, done that mate. I made the same deal with the devil - I wanted to out her main AP to his wife. She wouldn't tell me his name. I told her that was it then - he's more important to her than I am. She finally agreed to tell me his name if I didn't tell his wife. Her AP had convinced her that his wife was an alcoholic, controlling, and would go crazy if she ever found out. And I sold out. Sold out because I was desperate and in shock. Two months later I got her timeline - and I was dieing. See, my wife was still in the fog, defending, omitting, only admitting to what I could prove. And I was broken.

I finally demanded that we send her timeline to his wife. It was killing me. We created a fake e-mail address and sent it to her work e-mail. Guess what? The wife was a real professional - high level government employee. She informed us that she was aware of his affair with my wife, and multiple other women he had met on Ashley Madison. When my wife found out that she was just part of hist stable to be mounted when he wanted to ride her, her bubble burst. Shit got real. Long story short - outing the POSER to his wife was the turning point in going from D to R. Still a long road ahead, but without that moment, I'm pretty sure I'd be sitting here telling you to D her ass and don't look back. Ashley Madison is a special kind of evil.

You know how bad you are hurting? You know what her "friend" is doing to other women? What her husband doesn't know? How would you feel if you found out he knew your wife was on AM and didn't tell you? If I could do one thing over, it would be to make sure I outed every single son of a bitch in my wife's AM profile. Every single one.

Good luck. This ain't easy.

you made your promise when you believed her lie. Now that you know the truth the deal is off.

for example, "i'll sell you a cadillac but only if you pay cash." "OK" And then you find out it's a chevy. You may still buy the car, but you don't have to pay cash.

See? She extracted a promise from you under a false presumption.

I think you should tell the other BHs and BWs. It's the right thing to do. It's too bad your wife made promises to other cheaters. Wouldn't YOU want to know? If so, do what you would have others do for you. You don't owe anything to your wife at the moment. She's a liar who's only thinking of herself and her reputation. I don't even think she's worried about them. She's worried about how she looks to them.

I'm really sorry you're going thru this. Believe it or not, you will be fine. It just takes a while.

[This message edited by mike7 at 11:17 PM, June 13th (Friday)]

WW and I actually saw the BH of the bad MC tonight at a kids sports practice.

I said, BTW, he's over there...

She said "No problem" in a cheery voice and started walking. I was a bit stunned at her tone since I feel queezy thinking he doesn't know that his wife is cheating on him, and I've been stressing about keeping this secret.

Later tonight I told her about my feeling and she said "Oh, he found out already." I said that it would have helped me to know that he knew so I wouldn't worry that he's in the dark and hurting. She just didn't get that this was even an issue. Her lack of empathy for this guy stunned me. I don't particularly like him that much but geez, he's a human being.

She then defended her not telling me that he knew as another "need to know" detail that she keeps private since friends talk to her in confidence.

This set me off big time. I said "Jesus, we're just not going to make it are we" and stormed out of the room. We'll sleep in separate beds tonight. Argh she drives me crazy these days. I don't know how we can survive if she doesn't get the slightest bit of what I'm talking about.

I told her earlier this week that I hope our MC can pull a rabbit out the hat because I just don't see a path through this. This sentiment stands, it's going to take a miracle.

Mhca,

First off---sorry that you are here. Infidelity hurts like no other.

Don't take this the wrong way. Your D-day is still very new, and the shock is just starting to wear off. But what it looks like in your posts, is that your are waiting for your wife to come around on her own, or for her IC or MC to wake her up to reality.

The sad part is this is often either a path to failure, or a prolonged and unnecessary path of pain. What you need to do, is put yourself front and center. You need to take selfish(but not in a bad way) actions to get yourself on track.

The first thing you need to do, is to let go of the outcome. Neither reconciliation nor divorce are wrong answers, as long as it is your conscious choice in which direction you take. As long as your decisions aren't based on fear(fear of losing your wife, fear of losing full time access to your children, fear of financial ruin, etc.), then your choice(s) will be healthy ones.

But you have to take action. The rugsweeping method that your wife has employed will only guarantee future problems. If she is committed to the marriage, and if you two are going to MC, make certain that the affair is going to be addressed first and foremost...until YOU reach a certain level of satisfaction to move forward. Call her out on her "gray" views around her infidelities and "friends" that were aware. Demand a timeline that will give you a better understanding of what happening to your marriage at the time of her affairs. Demand that these "friends" of her affairs are cut out of your lives---they are toxic, and have NO PLACE near you, or your marriage. Talk to the other betrayed husband, being that he already "knows".

These, my friend, are all parts of you reclaiming your life. Think about it for a minute---if your wife would really end the marriage if you spoke to MCGF, or her husband....do you really want to even stay married to such a person?

The sooner that you take control of your life back, the sooner that the pieces will fall into place. You will either get a wife who finally realizes the devastation and pain that she caused, and a new found willingness to repair the damage....or you will continue to have this shell of a person who looks like your wife, but has none of the traits that you fell in love with. Either way, your path will be that much easier to decide at that point.

Your healing starts with you. Don't compromise who you are. Hold her accountable for her actions, and see where this leads you.

as another "need to know" detail that she keeps private since friends talk to her in confidence.

As long as she has that attitude, you will never know when she is telling you the truth.

Somehow she needs to understand secrets in a marriage is deadly.

Everything like this that continues to come out, just makes you think there is more and more to come out.

Not to mention, there is nothing to make you believe she is telling the truth that the H even does know.

In order to find out anything, you just need to be your own PI and look at and in and through everything.

On a need to know basis, that just puts you lower on the totem pole than her friends. She has to see that soon in order to R.

MHCA

Can I make a suggestion to you.

Be the man. Not the man you are today but the man she married.

Would that guy have put up with her nonsense?

Would that guy have put up with her lies?

Would that guy have put up with her cheating?

Would that guy have put up with her trickle truth?

Would that guy have put up with her attitude, lack of respect towards you, lack of respect towards your marriage and IMO lack of respect to your sons?????

Your wife needs you to really take control. To show a man that has conviction, resolve and will not be disrespected.

You are not going to like my suggestions.

Do you have family close? Are her parents nearby or some of her siblings?

If yes then return her!

Take a bunch of her clothes, her makeup and personal belongings. Throw them into black hefty trash bags.

Do it while she is out. When she comes home ask her to take a ride to her parents or a sibling and bring her to the front door.

Ring the bell and when the door is answered return her. Explain the situation, her AM affairs and sex with OM and her lack of empathy/desire to Reconcile and act like an adult.

Leave her at the doorstep. Go to the trunk. Thwor her crap on the lawn and tell her that the trash has been taken out.

Tell her "Do not come home until you can act like a decent human being, good wife and mother. And if you want a divorce then just let me know the address of where you will be living."

Then get in the car and go home. Ignore her calls or texts.

That is only step 1.

She "opened" your marriage with out discussing it, without asking your permission.

How does that make you feel?

If the hefty trash bags does not get her brain receptive to thought and she is not showing any remorse expose the affair to her entire family.

Also speak to the OW husband to makes sure he is aware of his wifes advice to yours and her AM solution to your marriage woes.

You see MHCA your wife has intentionally embarrassed you. She is not remorseful. She does not think she did anything wrong.

Don't judge her. Embarrass her. Let her own family judge her.

Let her see real consequences for her actions.

The same day you drop her off and expose go to the bank and open a new account with half your savings in it.

Let her know you split the money. That is all.

Then sit back for a few days. Watch your wife. Listen to your wife.

See if she actually is starting to sound like your wife.

Because the woman who cheated on you and is TT'ing you is not your wife.

Return her.

Make it clear to her you are no longer allowing her infidelity to affect you even if that means you will replace her.

She spent a year degrading you.

Take that year of emotional "beat down" and return it to her in one day.

Good Luck

Be the Man! It might just save your marriage.

HM

PS

Has she gotten an STD test yet? She should not be allowed home without it.

[This message edited by happyman64 at 8:10 AM, June 14th (Saturday)]

This gets worse with each post. First, i would not believe for a minute what she told you about the other husband knowing, so i would tell him anyway. If he knows, he'll tell you.

Second, your wife has obviously got herself involved with a group of friends who probably discuss a lot of very private stuff with each other, and I would not be surprised if others in her group have tried the AM routine. It is a shame that so many men are not aware of how many women know about this site and how EASY it is for a women to use it. Your WW was a perfect example. I think you said 4-6 guys in a few weeks. A woman will get bombarded with offers five minutes after she posts on the site. Yes, there are more male scumbags on the site, but because of that they have a much harder time scoring.

I learned the hard way (read my profile) that when the girlfriends are toxic it is the worst because she is getting positive reinforcement for anything she says you are wrong about. Some of her group probably knew she was on AM and were telling her how cool it was and how she deserved it. This is a no win situation.

With her attitude, even if you make it to 60 days she will cheat on you again. It's just a matter of when because she thinks it was no big deal and really has put you on trial to save the marriage.

You really want to live like that??? If you read a lot of threads here, there is a common theme. When the BS desparetely wants to , puts up with outrageous shit to beg wayward, the outcome is overwhelmingly bad.

You need out of this situation or at least the willingness to be out of it or you are going in circles with this woman who has absolutely no respect for you.

[This message edited by Badhurt at 10:40 AM, June 14th (Saturday)]

Another too similar conversation this morning. She militantly refuses to get it but claims to be trying oh-so-hard.

At this point I don't see any alternative but D. I'm at the end of my rope. 18+ years marriage down the drain. I don't even know this person anymore.

When she says things like that ask her, how is she trying so hard. What has she done, what is she doing.

Do you have access to every single form of communications she could be using for OM

Will she stop talking to her toxic friends.

Will she tell you every one of her confidential secrets.

Will she tell you the entire truth.

If she says no to anyone of those items, than she most certainly is not trying very hard.

Let her know exactly what you expect from her.

What is the Ashley Madison web-site? also Craig's list? From what I gather reading these posts, a person who would even explore one of these sites sounds like they need help, that their thinking has already been primed for an affair.

I am a new member to this web-site too. I am still in shock and unable to talk much about my experience, and it has been 5 years now.

So very sorry for your pain and confusion. Your WS seems to have a foot in each camp at the moment, not really comprehending the impact of her actions. That is very painful for the BS to experience.She may never comprehend. I know, because it is happening to me too.

I wish you courage and strength.Look after your self and do not be subsumed by what she has done. I can't offer much advice as I am in a similar boat to you, and am reeling in shock. She does sound like she has made many bad choices, (bad friends, listening to bad friends, carrying through with what bad friends suggest, those three things in themselves are serious and grave actions. It is not surprising she then had an A.)She seems to be still very much in a fog.It is excruciating to be in love with someone when they are in that state. My heart goes out to you.

Divorce or not, continue emotionally withdrawing; with her current mind-frame this woman isn't worth wasting any love on. If you really get yourself in a position where you truly don't care, then you really have the strength to endure any crap she throws your way.

It is a delicious freedom when you can say I have no love left; I really don't give a damn what she does. You can still stay married for a few years for the kids sake, but you will free of emotional ties; free to do whatever you want without worry and guilt. Give it a try; she isn't remorseful, then you owe her nothing.

If the BH knows then it shouldn't be an issue for you to talk to him.

mhca - I'm sure someone has probably mentioned it already, but you really need to pull the 180. She isn't in a place that is healthy for you. You need to stop investing your love and hope in this woman. The 180 will help you get strength. Sometimes the 180 can turn a wayward's head as well. Right now she's under the delusion that she is the only one with choices. She thinks she can keep her secrets with her friends and its just too damn bad for you. In her mind, you are hers, and you're just going to have to deal with it. Nothing could be further from the truth. You now need to withdraw from her completely. This will show her that she isn't the only one with choices. But it will also strengthen you. It will start your healing. Most importantly, you will realize that you have choices and that in fact, you could be quite fine without her. This is an extremely liberating feeling. Because then you can genuinely lay down your dealbreakers. After all, who wants a cheating wife? Or a wife who keeps adulterous confidences with her friends? If she asks why you've withdrawn, you might mention that you've realized it's really easy to find someone better than a cheating wife.

She needs a come to Jesus moment. Only you can provide that. Start doing the 180 and tell her family that she's been cheating on you at Ashley Madison. She'll get angry. But you won't care. She brought this on herself. She's the cheater. since she thinks it's not really a big deal, she shouldn't have a problem if her family and your family knows about it. right?

[This message edited by mike7 at 8:41 PM, June 14th (Saturday)]

Tonight WW actually came to me and said some things that made me think she might have the ability to eventually "get it." There was no defensiveness, she brought up a few new ideas, and answered questions I had without apparent evasiveness.

Maybe our upcoming MC session won't be divorce mediation after all, though I'm still quite paranoid, and wonder if I were to warm up to her that that would mean she would slack off. If I hadn't mentioned D this morning probably little would have happened tonight.

It's going to take some real effort for her to get my trust back. So many lies and so much destruction to get through. And I'm not willing to be the force behind all our progress. It's too hard and I'm too tired.

One issue to work through: a huge shocker was that my quite healthy mother died suddenly on my birthday in February (I then had to pull the plug on her.) During this time WW wasn't there for me emotionally (which really hurt, this was when I most needed her) and later I found out (because of false R) that she had been with OM the day before and then was texting with him the entire week while we were grieving and sorting out the estate.

She blames stuff like this on the fog. I'm sympathetic to that but at the same time she still has to own it and prove that it can't happen again. That's a long ways off.

[This message edited by mhca at 2:07 AM, June 15th (Sunday)]

A few other facts that are relevant if D is the answer:

- I play ice hockey a few times a week. I'm in great shape for a 47 year old. In contrast, WW is a bit overweight, 10 pounds maybe (but this doesn't bother me too much)

- I'm employable. Grad w/ honors from top 5 MBA school. Pulling down a very good salary now at a tech company.

- We'll both do fine financially, but I'll do a little better. If we don't D I could retire in a year or two due to a recent IPO for my company. If we do D, I walk with almost 2/3 of our nest egg due to some of it being an inheritance from my mother who died this year. (Inheritances aren't community property here.)

- She's a SAHM and hasn't been full time for a decade or so.

- I'm a decent looking guy, above average I think.

- We live in a fantastic waterfront house which would probably have to be sold if we D.

All these may give her more motivation to put in the work once the fog is fully lifted (assuming we make it that far). Unfortunately, these also give me motivation to be pissed off because I think she had a pretty good deal (not that I was without fault) and she betrayed me anyway.

still has to own it and prove that it can't happen again

She can own it...but nobody can prove it won't happen again.

That belief comes initially with a leap of faith when entering R and later you trust the WS will make the right choices, but only because they make an effort every day to earn that trust.

Control is something we learn is only an illusion.

Yeah, a lot of gently gently rug sweeping from the both of you.

Firstly your wife has had no qualms about lying, so go ahead and call up the husband of this woman and have a chat.

Secondly, no deals. Probably precisely the reason you are at this point and why you've had false R. You claim she's "starting to get it" or having moments of lucidity. What I see if you have to badger her for the details, you point out the issues, she balks, then later comes to you with a little concession on said issue, at this point you go wow she might be getting it..she's not.

You need to tear everything down to truly start again. You expose her, bring all this out in the open so she has to face the consequences of her actions.

Too much shielding and protection of everybody who participated. The MC gets protected, all the OM get protected. Your WW gets protected. Only you get to eat the sh*t sandwich, while dragging her kicking and screaming to even admit one small part in a myriad of different and much bigger issues.

Tonight WW actually came to me and said some things that made me think she might have the ability to eventually "get it."

Saying things is on thing; doing things is another.

She wasn't defensive in your talk, and that is good. But now, her actions on these other items is key in believing if she is starting to come around. Has she suggested No Contact with her toxic friends? Will she write a timeline? Has she shown one bit of empathy toward you? Has she tried to ease your pain? Has she admitted her lies to her own IC?

All these are indicators that she may be starting to "get it"....and this is just scratching the surface. Please don't get sucked in by a moment of compliance on her part. Personally, I think a great test of her "awakening", would be for you to talk to the other BH. Don't tell your WW that you are doing this----just do it. This way, you are making the man aware of what is going on in his own marriage(because I call BS on the "fact" that he already knows), and sending a message to MCGF that her meddling into your marriage is unacceptable...and not without consequence.

Then wait to see how your wife reacts to this. It will speak volumes of where her mindset really is.

Take control. Don't let up. The more that you push to get through this mess, the sooner that you will emerge out the other side a stronger person.

My WS also said things to make me think he 'got it', and I would be so happy. But here I am 5 years later with his 'revelations' mixed in with a lot of behaviours totally unacceptable. Listen to your gut, no matter how much that hurts, even if it is telling you what you don't want to hear.

I have made the mistake of trying to explain and 'educate' my WS why his behaviour was bad. In retrospect, I see that was a mistake. It also does not give him the chance to use his own brain and figure it out. And the WS own brain is where the changes need to start, I think