SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Texts are clean. I even have the texts before and after that night and they are awkward the next day.

I am pretty sure this was a one time sexual thing.

I found pictures where they were out at a restaurant, makes me sick.

Now onto her full confession.

Welcome back.

Texts are clean. I even have the texts before and after that night and they are awkward the next day.

By that, do you mean there was no more incriminating evidence in what you were able to recover? Good news, I guess.

I am pretty sure this was a one time sexual thing.

I found pictures where they were out at a restaurant, makes me sick.

Again, I get the feeling you are attempting to minimize this betrayal, and I think that is a bad idea. After all, they only had a multi-year EA capped off by her taking off her clothes and him sticking his pecker in her. It's not so bad... really??? The pictures should do more than make you sick, they should make you pretty pissed off because they speak to how comfortable she was with him. Think she was pondering what happened later that night in any of those photos? I know I would be questioning that.

Now onto her full confession

Please tell me this means she has already confessed to you and you will be recapping it for us next. If it doesn't mean she has given you a full confession already, what the hell are the two of you waiting for?!? If this is the case you really need to grab the reigns on this M and start being the change you want to see.

Gator,

I feel for you as you struggle through this mess. You do need to get her to admit to everything, so that nothing is left hidden, and she takes full responsibility for what she did. Not to punish or humiliate her, but so that both of you can move on without any unresolved truths crawling out of the woodwork six months down the line. So many people have said that they thought reconciliation was going fine and then a load more stuff was confessed and they feel like they are back to square one again, and that there must be even more stuff waiting to be revealed. Once you get into that mind-set, it is very hard for trust to ever re-establish itself in a relationship.

Also, it is important that you tell her how she has made you feel, in detail, and in depth, because if you do not say something that is really bothering you now, it may sit at the back of your mind and cause arguments between you for years. The only way any of this can be pulled apart and disempowered is if both of you put everything on the table. For her, it is the reasons for what she did, and for you, it will be how it makes you feel about her, the security of the marriage and family, and any doubts it has given you about the future.

It seems to be a common problem that in the aftermath of infidelity that both the wayward spouse and the betrayed spouse try to move forward with many things unsaid. The wayward hides things that do not put them in a good light, and the betrayed spouse may go forward having not said a lot of things that aren't 'nice' (for want of a better word). And when they do that, both people can sense that there is more going on, and it builds a barrier between them.

I hope you can resolve all this, and that you are taking care of yourself as get through this day by day.

OK. I have her full confession, but not written yet.

This was a friendship that went astray.

She now sees how disrespectful and wrong all the little things she did with him over the past 2 years were.

The only thing I am unsure of is whether she actually really wanted to sleep with him.

I think this was a little fantasy that she thought was safe because he lives in another state now.

No two ways about it, they had an emotional affair.

She wanted me to be home for this but plans changed and I was not.

She was a fool that was lonely and now she realizes he was really never her friend and she is ashamed of her actions.

As stated, we destroyed/gave away all items/pictures/texts/contact info for this person and his family.

This is a clean break.

I am minimizing nothing.

She betrayed me by being so emotionally tied to this weasel.

She betrayed her family by involving him in our lives.

She betrayed me by having long conversations with him and letting him compliment her in inappropriate ways.

She betrayed her family and I by having that little prick over our house without me home, or even here at all.

She betrayed me by drinking with him, kissing him, and letting him fuck her.

I actually think she is a naive fool who got more than she bargained for and her safe little friend turned out to be a backstabbing weasel with a dick.

She admitted kissing him and then she says things happened very fast. I think she was startled by how fast he moved and felt shocked at how this got away from her.

I actually suspect she may have been 'date raped' by the way she is reacting. I think she may afraid to tell me.

Whether she wanted it or it happened the way she described, his dick was in her and he had a few minutes of fucking my wife so she is guilty of letting that happen. No minimizing.

I believe her when she tells me there was no passion, no love in the sex.

I believe her when she tells me she is or was horrified.

I do believe she felt it in the kissing and whatever else happened before her pants went down.

I hate her for this regardless.

I used Phone Rescue to pull up old texts and it is clear there was no inappropriate discussions.

Picture of them at restaurant was taken by our friend, there was several people there and they all went out together. You know, just friends..

She is most ashamed of the emotional connections she had with him and how she understands what a betrayal that was to me.

Unlike me, she doesn't think the sex is as big a deal as she wasn't there (withdrew in her mind) and there was no love. And it was so quick and pathetic.

Where am I now? Trying to cope with what I understand to be the facts, trying to reconcile that with my soulmate that I love so much, trying to learn where we went wrong, and trying to move forward and save our relationship.

I took her ring and I don't see me giving it back. I think this marriage ended when his dick made contact.

We need to find another path forward to save our relationship for us and our kids.

Advice on moving forward appreciated as well as all the previous comments.

FYI- We will both be doing confessions. Her's is obvious, mine is how I failed her in other ways in our marriage so we can clear the air completely.

This will include how it was wrong and responses (how the others actions made us feel).

I hope this helps us and anyone else reading.

regards

[Again, I get the feeling you are attempting to minimize this betrayal, and I think that is a bad idea. After all, they only had a multi-year EA capped off by her taking off her clothes and him sticking his pecker in her. It's not so bad... really??? The pictures should do more than make you sick, they should make you pretty pissed off because they speak to how comfortable she was with him. Think she was pondering what happened later that night in any of those photos? I know I would be questioning that.]

Yes, this is better than they were fucking each other every time they got together is how it is good, but I SO get your point.

I'm glad you appear to be displaying some anger about the BS you've been told, but you still insist you aren't minimizing. Not to be a dick, but I'll quote a few examples below of how I think you are minimizing it.

This was a friendship that went astray.

I think this was a little fantasy that she thought was safe because he lives in another state now.

She wanted me to be home for this but plans changed...

She was a fool that was lonely...

I actually think she is a naive fool who got more than she bargained for...

I think she was startled by how fast he moved and felt shocked at how this got away from her.

I actually suspect she may have been 'date raped' by the way she is reacting. I think she may afraid to tell me.

I believe her when she tells me there was no passion, no love in the sex.

I believe her when she tells me she is or was horrified.

Please stop treating her like a child who was surprised this guy had a cock. I see your "I think" and "I believe" statements which lower her culpability as particularly troubling, especially the retroactive date rape claim that seems to be bubbling up. You must consider the possibility that she knew what she was doing and wanted it to happen. I know it makes it easier to R if that was not the case, but you need the truth.

Lastly, I want you to know that I take no pleasure in pointing out the things above. I just believe that you will have the best shot at successfully recovering from this if you know the full truth rather than some whitewashed version. Moreover, you'll know who your WW really is and whether or not you can R with the real her.

I think that you are handling this well.

My only correction was that she chose to not end the marriage when she chose to fuck her boyfriend, but when she opened up her soul to him.

Your view is very healthy though. It puts you in a place where YOU decide what YOU need.

[Please stop treating her like a child who was surprised this guy had a cock. I see your "I think" and "I believe" statements which lower her culpability as particularly troubling, especially the retroactive date rape claim that seems to be bubbling up. You must consider the possibility that she knew what she was doing and wanted it to happen. I know it makes it easier to R if that was not the case, but you need the truth.

Lastly, I want you to know that I take no pleasure in pointing out the things above. I just believe that you will have the best shot at successfully recovering from this if you know the full truth rather than some whitewashed version. Moreover, you'll know who your WW really is and whether or not you can R with the real her.]

I hear you. I think she may be too ashamed and afraid to tell me she enjoyed it. She did let it slip that she was disappointed with how it went but I'm not sure if this is an admission of being into it or said to make me feel better.

*****

This is the one part I am still unclear on and her confession letter and counseling needs to shed light in this.

*****

I hear you and have it in the back of my head as a reality check, thanks.

[My only correction was that she chose to not end the marriage when she chose to fuck her boyfriend, but when she opened up her soul to him.]

VERY GOOD POINT. I think this is why she is more ashamed of the relationship than the sex.

She is wearing our engagement ring only, because she did end up marrying me.

I need a way to move forward without actual divorce that permanently symbolizes this marriage is over and a new one needs to start.

I think we are in the 'lets see if we can address the root causes here and make sure it will not happen again' phase.

Also, does she really want to stay married to me. She acted like she doesn't.

I would like to re-marry her or renew vows, get new rings, whatever.

Also, I am very compelled to sleep with one of my old girlfriends to be 'even', but I'm afraid that will just make things worse.

How can I mentally even the score without causing more issues?

There is no such thing as getting even. Its a concept that works logically, but never works in reality. Unless you are dealing with finances..

Think about it, what if she truly didn't enjoy it. So you go out and have sex with an old girlfriend and enjoy it. Now does she have the right to go out and have sex with someone and enjoy it? Well, ok say she does, now she has had 2 partners outside the marriage. So, now you are behind again. When do you reach even? Mean while the relationship is being totally destroyed without any chance of recovery.

If you want to R then you are going to have to accept that this happened and find a way to forgive and move on. That doesn't mean you have to forget, it doesn't mean that she doesn't have a lot of work to do, it especially doesn't make it easy, or painless. Have you given her "How to help your spouse heal from an affair"?

I know you are mentally in a bad place. All you can do from here is work on yourself, fix the flaws that are yours in the marriage and let her work to fix the damage she caused by having the A. There are no shortcuts, no quick fixes. Its all time and effort by both of you.

She did let it slip that she was disappointed with how it went but I'm not sure if this is an admission of being into it or said to make me feel better.

That seems like it could be the truth, and reflective of the fact that she wanted it to happen and it didn't turn out well. She was disappointed by an event that had a really large by build up.

What bothers me most about this though is that if the guy was a better lay would the A still be going on? Would your WW be planning to leave you?

She needs to do a lot of work in IC to fix what is broken in her before you guys start MC.

Lastly, there is no justice in infidelity. Having a RA simply makes you broken too. It's probably one of the worst parts of the shit sandwich you've been served.

Gator,

I think you are handling a horrible situation very well indeed.

"Unlike me, she doesn't think the sex is as big a deal as she wasn't there (withdrew in her mind) and there was no love."

Well, if she was so withdrawn and there was no 'love', why was she even in bed with the guy? I don't know too many women who will 'assume the position' when they feel no desire for sex and no love for the man entering their body. Sorry to be so graphic, but her attitude about the act is delusional. I have spoken to several female friends about the female outlook on sex, and they have all said that letting a person enter their body was not a minor issue that they would not think over before it happens. Effectively, what your wife appears to be saying is that the OM said, "Lie down, I want to have sex", and she said, "Okay then, get it over with", and thought about recipes or her favourite TV shows until he finished. Really? Again, I apologise for harping on about this, but if she felt so little desire or interest, why was she doing it? I think this is just minimising on her part, trying to say that allowing the guy into her was a trivial matter. Re. no 'love', she had spent two years or more building up an emotional relationship with the guy. There was a connection there, there had to have been for her to invite him over, and get physical with him. If a woman truly felt no connection/affection for a guy, it is unlikely she would even smooch with him.

I need a way to move forward without actual divorce that permanently symbolizes this marriage is over and a new one needs to start.

I would like to re-marry her or renew vows, get new rings, whatever.

If you decide the relationship can be saved, you could do the re-affirmation thing, and definitely sell the old rings and use the money to get new ones. Draw a line in the sand under the old wedding, which has effectively been trashed, and go into the new one with your eyes open. Which all depends on this:

I think we are in the 'lets see if we can address the root causes here and make sure it will not happen again' phase.

There's lots to work on before you take the step of starting a new phase of the relationship, and I think you need to be careful about confirming too quickly that you want to continue the relationship. Without wanting to sound horrible, she has to win you back, and earn another chance to be a safe and stable partner for you.

Also, does she really want to stay married to me. She acted like she doesn't.

If it is the affair that is the only thing that makes you say she acted like she doesn't want to be married to you, I think you are giving too much significance to the affair. It stinks that she had it, but it was a secondary relationship to her main one, which was with you. Her affair with the OM was a side thing, not an exit affair where she imagined running away with him. However, it does raise the question of her commitment to the marriage and relationship with you, and that is something she will have to prove.

Also, I am very compelled to sleep with one of my old girlfriends to be 'even', but I'm afraid that will just make things worse.

I totally understand the compulsion you are feeling, but someone once said that if we followed the adage about "An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth" we would all be blind and toothless. Cheating is a scuzzy thing to do, and if you do it, aren't you just lowering yourself to that scuzzy level? Let's say a guy from down the street walked up and punched your wife in the face. Would you going and punching his wife in the face make you 'even', or would it make you a woman-beating bum like him? The problem is, if you make yourself 'even' with a cheater, you are dragging yourself downwards from where you are now, which is a decent guy who has been wronged. I understand while you are contemplating this, but I don't think you would really come away from it feeling good about yourself if you did it. Instead of trying to get even with people who have done wrong, take pride in the fact that you lived up to your marriage vows and your commitment to the family. Don't lower yourself; you're better than that.

"How can I mentally even the score without causing more issues?"

I have read accounts of relationships where people have revenge affairs and all it does is create a permanently damaged relationship where the partners are like two boxers circling each other in the ring. Do not go that route; divorce would be better, and you do not want divorce.

You have been wronged, and that sucks, but there is really no way to 'even' the score without lowering yourself. Let's say you got burgled. Do you get even by burgling someone else, maybe the person who burgled you, or is it better and wiser to get better locks and a good burglar alarm? In your position, you should not be thinking of getting 'even', but how to get 'ahead and above' the potential for ever being put in that situation again. Which, in this case, is working through all of the issues, making absolutely certain that your wife understands what she nearly destroyed, that she is in the right place mentally to commit to you and the family, and then re-starting your 'new' marriage. That way, you aren't getting even, you are getting better. Better for you, better for your kids, and better for your wife.

Don't get even; get better!

Just my thoughts, please take them or leave them as you see fit. I am no genius, but my heart goes out to you as you struggle with the strong emotions that we all feel when we go through these things.

[This message edited by M1965 at 9:27 AM, May 12th (Friday)]

Gator. I agree with the taking of the ring. How did she handle it when you took it.

That marriage is done. Sell the ring, yours too if you have one and put the money in a separate bank account to be used if you both R and want to renew vows. That should not be rushed into until a lot of IC work by both of you followed by MC.

If in the end you unfortunately D, you can divide the money up in the proceedings.

I wish u good luck.

I would like to re-marry her or renew vows, get new rings, whatever.

I'm not saying this to try to modify how you are thinking, more to ask a basic question.

Premise:

1. You have accepted your marriage is over

2. There is now a level playing field.

Why is your ex-wife now the best available option as a future, safe spouse for you? It's a very basic question that may be difficult for you to answer, but it's where your focus must be.

Also in terms of revenge I don't think that you have accepted that the marriage is over. There is no revenge. The marriage is done. d-o-n-e. A consequence of cheating isn't to have things done to you. The consequence is her spouse loses faith in her, loses trust and doesn't want to be his future spouse.

Plus, revenge is silly. She fell in love with this guy and kept it secret for you. It would be impossible for you to betray her this deeply as she'd likely know it was going on.

Here a few things that you could do to begin the long process of R.

IC for each of you. Working on the M is going to end badly right now and lead to many mistakes and building a second M with two broken individuals. Either you or she will repeat these destructive patterns again. Trying to build a house that was destroyed with the same existing materials will cause it collapse again, right ?

Full timeline. Be specific with the details you want. Polygraph to confirm it is all out there. You can't move on without knowing all the "big" things. I also had my kids paternity tested. STD tests for both of you. You'd be amazed of the confessions that come about once you start talking about confirming the "truth."

Is there any talk of her working ? I'd say we see this somewhat often where the stay at home spouse feels like less of a partner and too dependent on the other. The A is an attempt is take some power back and act out on the resentment they feel towards the other spouse for being the only source of income.

FWIW. I mention this not to hurt you, but are you sure she wants to stay M to you because she loves you and not because she likes the life you provide her ?

If It were me her working outside of the home addresses some of that. Further if you are unable to R she will need some means to support herself.

Removing anything outside of her feelings for you as a reason to stay will help you believe that she wants you and only you.

Also she had the A in your home. Is it possible to move ? Places and things have a way of prolonging your pain. Starting fresh in a new home or new town might might be the symbolic new start you are looking for.

Post nuptial agreements could also be on the table.

I've been around here a long time and I see this often. I fear you are confusing "familiar" for "safe."

Your W is "familiar," but she is also the person who cheated on you. What is her plan to makes changes so you can be safe in your M ?

She needs to carry the workload and it will be hard on her. Although being a D single mother would be worse.

Thanks for the advice everyone.

She was shocked a bit I think when I took the rings. Unfortunately my daughter saw me do it.

I took them both off her finger. I was still drunk from my attempted alcohol drowning after she confessed all this.

Its been a tough couple weeks.

Kids have seen us together and loving since so they know we had a fight, but I hope they don't know how serious. She is 9. Oh, and we really don't fight ever so that was unusual for her to see.

Perhaps even isn't the right word. Punishment perhaps? Problem is she is hurting bad now too.

Just sucks, no shortcircuiting this feeling.

Well on the plus side I am working out again, rage works wonders for channeling into weightlifting.

I am thinking of cutting a slice out of her ring and letting her wear it that way. We need to keep this as private as possible. The notch would be a constant remainder that we are broken, the marriage is over, and we need to move forward from this state.

I will date her for the next few months? And then decide what to do.

Thank you all for your time and input.

Regards

Good luck to you, Gator. The temptation to move past this quickly will be great; I encourage you to resist it. Give yourself a date, perhaps 6 months from D day, for a decision on R or D and stick to it. You will be on a roller coaster for awhile and will be leaning too far to R in the good times and too far to D in the bad times. Give yourself the gift of time, and watch your WW's actions to get a true feeling for the right path. If your WW pushes you for a decision sooner let her know that pressuring you on this issue will not work in her favor. She can begin repaying her debt to you by giving you time to think about what you want and need to feel safe going forward.

Unlike me, she doesn't think the sex is as big a deal as she wasn't there (withdrew in her mind) and there was no love. And it was so quick and pathetic.

How is it that women think this will actually make things easier for BH? Yes, today it may help her cause to sugar-coat everything to help you rugsweep your feelings but, eventually, it makes no difference. Zero. Whether she loved it and begged for more or hated it and just wanted it to end - you will never know. It's not possible. That is one little secret she will take to the grave. Since you don't know - you cannot know - your mind movies will be about XXX sex because that is what you fear the most.

Whether you are able to truly accept her as your wife again or divorce her, I hope you are able to move forward from this

Gator...one (likely minor) question.

During the "her full confession" post, you stated that "she hoped I'd be home for this but I was not", can you clarify what "this" is referring to?

Why are you going to reward her by dating her for the next few months.

And why not expose far and wide? This isn't a thing that should be kept secret. Well, unless you want it to happen again