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I want my Glasses had great ideas for Valentine’s Day. I love the idea of you decorating the house for Valentine’s Day. Obviously New Orleans is out - but where would your wife like to go? What is she into?

I am usually a great fan of Zugzwang...but I am going to disagree with him here. Sounds like she is firmly in 180.

His issues are his problem. She is calls him out on his crap. She is not going to MC with someone who still isn't authentic in their journey.

She isn't rewarding him for his behavior. She isnt offering validation.

She is calling him on her shit and making her own decisions as he has proven that she cant trust him.

Sorry...this sounds like a woman who has decided that she is putting emotional distance between herself and him. She is clear in her requirements and refuses to allow him to move her boundaries. She is also refused to give him ego kibbles. She is stating her requirements and not allowing him to use her as a emotional crutch any more.

its a year. she is doing what people on her suggest all the time. She is stronger, clearer in her intent and allowing him the chance to get his crap together. She has had 20 years of lies, blame shifting and selfishness. She is putting HERSELF first by fortifying her own boundaries. I don't see a woman who needs IC...i see woman who has decided she isn't going to be doormat or emotional crutch. Good for her.

^^^THIS!^^^

prissy, you took the words right out of my mouth. I was thinking the same thing

prissy4lyfe,

I could not agree with you more. I told Zugzwang that he was off in his opinion of my BS. You could not be more on target. Thank you for stating this so well.

After reading this thread, and your last one, I sensed that I had read similar posts from you before, so I went back and skimmed through quite a few of the threads you have started over the past couple years to get a clearer picture of your situation.

There were definitely some patterns and themes that I noticed that might explain why you've been spinning your wheels, staying stuck and why your BS is growing increasingly frustrated with you.

One of the biggest issues I see, and one that explains the disconnect that truthsetmefree touched on, is that your motivation to change is extrinsic rather than intrinsic. As you have stated, the only reason you have done IC, been on SI, or read books is because your BS has pushed you to do those things, not because you have a deep drive and desire to do them for yourself. There is a superficiality to the things you've done so far - a lack of depth - because you are doing things out of fear of losing your BS, rather than truly wanting to grow and transform yourself.

Which brings me to my next observation, the half-assing it and complacency that has been your self-admitted pattern, and that your BS has repeatedly pointed out to you. You're heart isn't in it. You are doing things with an expectation of a reward - validation from your BS and her continuing in a relationship with you.

In one of your previous threads you stated that you 'keep trying to "prove" to her that you are trying to change' and when she tells you she thinks that you haven't you get 'upset and defensive'. If you are truly motivated intrinsically to change you don't look to prove to others that you are transforming yourself, you learn to validate yourself.

When your BS threatened to kick you out in August 2016 she pointed out this pattern of complacency to you and you came on here asking for advice on how to stay motivated. At that point you even admitted that you give up if you don't get immediate rewards for your behaviour. You make half-hearted efforts to change and then when you aren't getting external validation for the things you've done you get upset, defensive and complacent, until your BS withdraws or threatens to end your relationship then you panic and once again start trying to prove to her that you are changing with more half-hearted efforts. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Until you develop intrinsic motivation to change and grow, or your BS finally has had enough and leaves, this cycle will continue to play out over and over.

Another observation I had and what I think keeps you from having that deep inner drive to heal and grow for yourself, and keeps you stuck, is your profound shame and self-loathing.

In March and August of 2015 you said that you "don't want to stop the self-hatred" and that you "will always be a piece of shit". You cling on to that shame and wrap it tight around yourself. You CHOOSE to maintain it. The thing with doing that is that it leads to self-pity, and as ISSF pointed out, it keeps you in the role of a helpless victim.

When shame and self-loathing are at play it disrupts your ability to empathically connect with others, and leads you to turn inward and away, which impedes remorse. Your BS sees that lack of empathy and genuine remorse. In July 2016 you posted about your BS saying that you are "cold" and that you "lack empathy" and then in December 2016 you posted about her saying that you are "defensive" and that you don't validate her feelings and pain. She has told you what she needs, yet you can't give it to her because of your need to hold on to the shame and self-loathing.

Having the motivation and desire to make lasting changes and psychologically transform yourself comes from a place of guilt instead of a place of shame. Shame says "I am bad", whereas guilt says "I did bad", and it is guilt that keeps us striving to improve.

Making the shift from shame to guilt involves developing self-compassion. I'm sure you've read that in the Brene Brown book that you've been reading, and if you haven't read it already I highly recommend you pick up a copy of Kristin Neff's book Self-Compassion. I also recommend that you watch videos by Brene Brown, Kristin Neff, and Pema Chodron on YouTube. I have some mod-approved links to the ones that BetterFuture13 and I found most helpful in my profile.

Once you develop compassion for yourself you can let go of the shame and self-loathing which will then allow you to really connect with your BS's pain on a deep level and feel true empathy for the hurt you have caused her without taking it as an attack and trying to defend and explain yourself. It will help you to stay present with your BS's suffering and really hear her pain and validate it in an empathic way. It will also help you to be more proactive about helping her with triggers, instead of ignoring them like you've done in the past.

Another area that needs mentioning, I think, is your Borderline Personality Disorder diagnosis from September 2016. I responded to your thread back then relating my own experiences with having BPD and recommended a book and video for you. I'm not sure if you ever looked into them. You did say you were supposed to start treatment at the end of September 2016 but never posted about it again. Did you ever get on meds? Have you been in DBT skills classes? What have you done to help yourself with your diagnosis?

I bring that up because it certainly contributes to how you view yourself and others, and how you behave and interact. Part of developing that intrinsic motivation to change is going to come from learning to manage your BPD and its symptoms.

Developing mindfulness is key. It will help you to be less impulsive with your words and actions, develop the ability to regulate your emotions, deal with feelings of shame and self-loathing as they arise in situations and in general. It will give you the ability to consider other perspectives. The book Mindfulness for Borderline Personality Disorder by Blaise Aguirre and Gillian Galen has been a game changer for me and I highly recommend it for you.

When you learn to be mindful, develop self-compassion, and find the motivation to change from deep within yourself rather than for anyone else, you will be able to transform yourself while simultaneously giving your BS the things she needs and wants - empathy, validation of her pain (that you deeply understand it), as well as feeling like she has been heard and that her feelings are a priority for you.

You have a choice to make - you can continue to spiral downward, repeating the same behaviours over and over and never really growing, or you can find the motivation within yourself to transform your life. You may not be able to save your marriage, but you can make yourself psychologically healthier and be a positive influence in your children's lives.

The choice is yours.

Damn, onlytime...that's a helluva spot-on post. That's about 6 mos of therapy, islesguy. Are you getting this?

You've got to step into your feelings. Not for an extrinsic result...but with an intrinsic desire to really know yourself. Your wife/marriage has become the distraction...and in that respect not much different from the affairs.

onlytime,

Wow, that is a lot of information. Thank you for taking the time to respond.

I agree that in the past my motivation was extrinsic (saving my own ass) but I really don't feel that way anymore. I want to be a better person for me as much as for anyone else. My being on this site is all about trying to figure it all out and I am very self motivated to progress forward.

But, you are right about the shame aspect. I don't have any self compassion because all I have is self loathing. It is very hard to say "I did bad" when what I did spanned decades. I have read about shame in Brenes' book and I understand what she said as well as what you are saying but applying it to myself feels like I am just allowing myself to get off the hook for the pain and shame I should have on me. It would be easier if what I did was a crime punishable by prison time. Then at least I would feel like I server my sentence. Even writing this feels selfish because even if there was a sentence for my crimes, that wouldn't change what my BS has to live with, which is forever. If would be like going to jail for 10 years after driving drunk and killing a child. The sentence would be served but that child isn't coming back. So, I guess I just changed my opinion on the jail sentence. Nothing is going to bring back what my BS had stolen from her so how could I ever feel ok with letting go of my shame? I will watch the youtube videos you recommended.

On the personality stuff, no I have never been on medication. No therapist has ever really pushed me towards it as something necessary. I did read through the dialectical workbook but didn't understand how to put it to practice. My most recent therapist suggested meditation instead which i have been trying to do everyday. I have read Mindfulness for Borderline Personality Disorder and didn't get much out of it but I am going to read it again.

I want to be healthier and hope that it will give me a better chance to save my marriage, but that is not my only motivation.

I didn’t realize you have had an actual diagnosis of a disorder.

I have a question?/Want to point out something. As a wife. I think it is so selfish for a husband not to care for himself medically.

My husband has had two strokes. He does nothing he needs to do to prevent future strokes.

With all you have done in this marriage and then having an actual diagnosis. It would hurt me so much for you NOT to get help for this. It is sooooo selfish!

There are treatment options and specific therapies to help this. We at SI can’t treat medical issues.

Why haven’t you stuck to a therapist to treat this disorder? I don’t understand.

Your shame is not just affecting you. It affects your wife too. I still stand by first observation and still believe your wife needs more healing for herself. But, if she is 180 you then that will come naturally for her. With or without IC. She will step away from you and your shame issues and focus on her.

It would be interesting to hear your wife's POV on how you discuss the affair with her and the amount of "validation" you need in her opinion. When you come from a self centered POV, you don't notice how much you do that.

You remind me much of Deena04 and lovemywife4ever. He would come on and tell things, and then so much would change while discussing the issues that he would say..."Well I really haven't been doing what I should and as much as I could." If you are still half-assing your attempts, then you don't "get it", but instead are stuck in your shame and self-loathing. How can you possibly show your wife the love she needs if you are constantly putting yourself down? Have you done anything outside of just dealing with the affair? Anything to build your own respect in yourself?

Iwantmyglasses,

The therapist who made the initial diagnosis told me a year later that he didn't believe I would have the same diagnosis if I retested but I didn't retest because it was very expensive.

However, I have continued to focus on mindfulness which is the treatment that was recommended. I was not recommended to be on any prescribed medication but instead provided focus techniques as well as meditation.

I am not sure ow my BS feels about this but I will bring it up with her.

Well now it all makes perfect sense. I did not realize you were BPD. I am, and I can tell you if you google it, we are satan incarnate and it's treatment resistent. Probably something you should avoid actually. Why? Because as long as you are willing and brave, you can make real lasting changes instead of pretending to be someone you clearly are not.

Meds can help, but not cure. It's not as though they will take away the crushing emotions, but they make the path to wholeness easier and less up hill.

Again it all comes down - you've been give a complete tool box so you will either build yourself and your marriage back up or you will not. What do you choose?

I have found mantras and writing things down that I learn and reviewing them to be tremendously helpful.

Isles guy....the most expensive part of this all is your wife’s heart.

That sounds like an excuse to me. It extremely difficult to face the truth.

IE...my husband will NEVER admit he has had strokes. He says it was a misdiagnosis.

Do you see? Get another opinion. You are self defeating, when you can truly find someone to help you.

[This message edited by Iwantmyglasses at 6:23 AM, January 31st (Wednesday)]

What did you do for your wife when she was just someone you dated? How did you win her to the point of wanting to marry you? How did you show your affection in the past?

I know you say your wife doesn't need IC, but clearly you treated her like shit for years and years and years of your marriage and she stayed instead of leaving. Why? Sorry, but is that the actions of a healthy adult? To stay with an abusive husband? That is why IMO it would benefit her to figure out why she stayed when she was being treated so wrongly for so many years. A healthy adult that demanded to be treated with respect would not have stayed in such an abusive relationship for so long. If she has figured that out, good that may help her in 180 you. Have you figured out why you took advantage of someone so dependent that they would stay and put up with the abuse?

Zugzwang,

What did you do for your wife when she was just someone you dated? How did you win her to the point of wanting to marry you? How did you show your affection in the past?

I was always able to tell her what she needed to hear in the past whenever we had any problems. I am not sure what I did for her to want to marry me. She clearly married me thinking I was someone else because she didn't know that i had cheated on her. Even though I took advantage of her while we were married, she didn't see it as abuse. All she wanted in her life was a husband who was loyal to her and when she found out I wasn't all of the shit that she put up with was magnified a thousand times over.

Example: She took care of the kids while I was away on business. When she found out she was stressed out taking care of them alone for days while I was out drinking and in a strip club, that inconvenience turned into tremendous anger.

She stayed because she didn't know who I was for all of those years. She stayed for the past 6 years because I was still hiding through lies. Over the last 6 years while I held out the truth is when it became evident to her that I had been abusing her from the start 26 years ago.

Have you figured out why you took advantage of someone so dependent that they would stay and put up with the abuse?

My years and years of rug sweeping, minimizing, and rationalizing kept me from seeing the real torture I was putting her through even while it was literally staring me in the face.

[This message edited by islesguy at 10:48 AM, January 31st (Wednesday)]

Imagine your wife was your only daughter whom you love very much with all your heart, and she's married to a man like you.

What would your advice to her be?

forevergone,

I will answer your question this way. If my daughter was married to a guy like me I would want to kick his ass and would tell her to be very careful but wouldn't be wary of telling her to dump the guy (even though this is what I would want) because that might have the reverse affect and drive a wedge between my daughter and I.

forevergone,

I will answer your question this way. If my daughter was married to a guy like me I would want to kick his ass and would tell her to be very careful but would be wary of telling her to dump the guy (even though this is what I would want) because that might have the reverse affect and drive a wedge between my daughter and I.

[This message edited by islesguy at 6:39 AM, March 5th (Monday)]

You just need to let go of your wife and marriage. In too many posts you keep dwelling on you you you .... she’s tired of the bullshit and has checked out.. you just need to Exit!!!

Go back to therapy especially if BPD and work on bettering yourself and being a good father.

Simple.... don’t keep trying to hang on.. I’m sorry but it’s not good for anyone.

Good Luck

but wouldn't be wary of telling her to dump the guy (even though this is what I would want) because that might have the reverse affect and drive a wedge between my daughter and I.

I think you meant to say "would be wary" instead of "wouldn't be wary", right?

So you'd keep your honest opinion to yourself (you would want her to dump him), because you're afraid of driving a wedge between you two. OK. Perhaps there is a middle way, you can be HONEST with her, but still let her decide and provide love and support to her however she chooses.

One can be honest and kind at the same time.

Hurtbeyondtime,

"You just need to let go of your wife and marriage. In too many posts you keep dwelling on you you you .... she’s tired of the bullshit and has checked out.. you just need to Exit!!! "

Yup.

Good luck, Islesguy.

forevergone,

I would tell her my opinion but would not want to do that with her thinking that I was telling her what to do because I would want her to make her own choice.