SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Fabulous post, OwningItNow.

Hickoryapple....

I don't. That's the point. Fantasizing has nothing to do with actions. NONE.

And how do you intend to control\regulate/enforce the fact that he isn't "allowed" to fantasize?

Did he only do it in context with his affair? Was that the only fantasy he ever had and that ONE time he acted on it?

I have fantasized about people IRL while married...

How have i managed not to randomly end up on the end of a penis not attached to my husband?

Because you have integrity. I don't think fantasizing about someone IRL would have led me to cheating, but I didn't think that I'd have run out and slept with someone on DDay either. The not fantasizing about men I knew and interacted with regularly was just my personal boundary. Not something that everyone should need to adhere to. I found a good friend of my WH's attractive. He's married to a woman I became good friends with. I couldn't handle fantasizing about him in particular because I would have felt like a complete asshole for doing so towards my WH and his wife. I shut that line of thinking down hard as soon as I was aware of it. A fantasy wouldn't have made me do anything. It just bothered me personally to encourage anything in me that found him attractive.

I'm married...not dead.

I fantasize, look at porn, appreciate beautiful bodies. Of course some people are off limits... Because of who they are to me...like friends. I believe in Girl Code.

Integrity and boundaries make all the difference.

And how do you intend to control\regulate/enforce the fact that he isn't "allowed" to fantasize?

I don't think I've explained my opinion very well. I'm not saying that he's not allowed to fantasize about ppl, obviously I can't control this anyway. But I am saying that should he choose to deliberately fantasize in detail about women he regularly spends a lot of time with, he's going down a dangerous road, and it's disrespectful to me, seeing as how this is how his initial A started. And he knows that. And if he chooses to deliberately spend time (especially alone) with his fantasy woman, I will now see that as him making a deliberate attempt at initiating inappropriate behavior.

But that's on him, as a consequence of his previous mindset, attitude and behavior. It's not how you or I would choose to behave. What's appropriate for him is now different. I can't police that, but he can, and if he chooses not to and I found out, it's proving he's not capable of honest R. So him not deliberately fantasizing about and spending time with fantasy women is a big thing for us. Because HIS fantasising DID have an effect on his actions.

[This message edited by Hickoryapple at 9:09 AM, April 20th (Saturday)]

People wear burkas in part because people are frightened of what might happen to a man who catches sight of a woman who isn't wearing one.

An Arab family moves to the USA or (horrors) Sweden and the women? They're not wearing burkas. Young women wear tight skirts and push up bras. At the beach? Bikinis! Sometimes? Nude!

Disgusting.

And yet.

Women aren't assaulted daily. How can this be? How is it that a woman can parade around half naked in front of a man (or showing a little ankle) without getting thrown to the ground and raped?

How is it that women are capable of restraining themselves from jumping the pool boy?

Apparently, adults have far more impulse control than anyone in Saudi Arabia gave them credit for.

How is it possible for people to have sexual fantasies or watch "Baywatch" on tv or Pornhub on their iPhones and yet control themselves?

The "Thought Police" project is dead in the water. Even if you decide that you ought to tell other people what to think, feel, or imagine there is no way for you to do it. You will fail. You don't have that much control over other people. Get over yourself.

More importantly, you ought to fail. One adult has no business telling another adult what to think. If you find yourself spending a lot of time wondering what other people are thinking, you are spending far too little time worrying about your own crap.

I don't know if I'm "normal" or not. I definitely fantasize about others. It was usually when I was feeling unhappy with our marriage and angry at her. I imagined whole relationships (including sex) that could happen if WW (just W at that time) wasn't there. I even cheated several times in my fantasies.

Currently I even imagine somebody else when having sex with my WW - it helps if I feel mind movies are about to flood my mind. I don't think this is absolutely "normal", but then, "normal" was quite drastically redefined after her cheating.

The "Thought Police" project is dead in the water. Even if you decide that you ought to tell other people what to think, feel, or imagine there is no way for you to do it. You will fail. You don't have that much control over other people. Get over yourself.

More importantly, you ought to fail. One adult has no business telling another adult what to think. If you find yourself spending a lot of time wondering what other people are thinking, you are spending far too little time worrying about your own crap.

Wow, offensively to the point. I'll ask my CH not to fantasize about his work colleagues, because he then behaves inappropriately towards them. The 'friend' he fantasized about ended up being his AP. If he had reined in his fantasies, likely he wouldn't have continued down that road and ended up in her pants. So if he fantasizes about ppl in these situations, he is deliberately allowing himself to start off down that road again, despite any protests that nothing will happen. (The same protests, incidentally, which he gave prior to his A.) I shouldn't even have to act as the thought police, but some ppl are so pathetic that they can't police themselves without a reminder.

And unfortunately, he has now made this 'my crap'.

[This message edited by Hickoryapple at 4:43 AM, April 23rd (Tuesday)]

Wife and I have an agreement.

She’s allowed to fantasize about George Clooney and David Beckham.

I’m allowed to fantasize about the new Sage X fly-fishing rod…

>>>>Wow, offensively to the point.<<<<

I apologize for overstating my case. I regret being offensive.

>>I’m allowed to fantasize about the new Sage X fly-fishing rod<<

Who said humor wasn't helpful in discussing the fallout from infidelity?

Well, females do get raped daily. However, we've established that it has nothing to do with what they are or are not wearing.

I would say people have no right to tell other people, including children, what to think.

I asked my fch if he fantasized about anyone else. He said he doesn't. He has no reason to lie because I wouldn't be upset if he did (unless it was the next door neighbor or someone at his gym). I actually think it's weird that he doesn't. He said he does sometimes fantasize about me. He started to ask me, but then said, "I know you do," with a smile on his face.

I have no idea on what's normal. What is normal to some isn't to others. Maybe you guys can tell me just how normal WH is and what/how you'd feel.

Putting this as a conversation (to the best of my memory) because I don't know how to relate it otherwise.

WH: I never fantasized about OW like I did with others. If I didn't, that should prove I didn't have sex with her.

ME: What? Proves nothing. ...And what others?

WH: Not like affairs, just had wet dreams about my exes.

ME (head is spinning): You've been fantasizing and having wet dreams about your exes? Which exes.. wait.... whaaaaat? You were laying next to me having dreams about screwing your exes and orgasmed?

WH: D & S. And yeah, it happened. Maybe a dozen or so times? And tI didn't do it all the time. Some dreams woke me up. Those I took to the bathroom to finish.

ME: (dying) so you dreamed of screwing them, got horny, woke up, then went to the bathroom in the middle of the night to masterbate to the thought of having sex with them? (WHY IS THIS MAN TELLING ME THIS?!?!?!)

WH: Well, not like that! I mean, I tried to think of you. It just didn't work.

ME: But they did?

WH: I put you in with them, tried flashing all the body parts through my mind. But you didn't work. So I chose memories of them. Only happened like... 5 times.

ME: So they're better than me?

WH: No. I just chose them during those times.

ME: And when did you ever put me in a lineup with them and chose me?

WH: Never. But see? I NEVER thought of OW that way at all. So I didn't have sex with her.

>>>>ME (head is spinning): You've been fantasizing and having wet dreams about your exes? Which exes.. wait.... whaaaaat? You were laying next to me having dreams about screwing your exes and orgasmed?<<<<

Me: laughing so hard cappuccino is spewing from my nostrils and all over the keyboard.

I swear you have to laugh. It is so bloody ridiculous.

There really needs to be a book that compiles the most inane things said by unfaithful spouses. It wouldn't be hard. Sift through a few thousand posts. Copy. Paste. Voila!

Hephaestus2|

A coffee table book! Just the thing. I'll call it: CHEAT SPEAK & THE INSANE EXPLAIN. Or maybe CHEATERVERSE: Absurd Things Cheaters Believe We'll Believe. Or, ME TALK CRACK ON DDAY. Or NO, IT MAKES SENSE: words uttered by the senseless insensitives. How about CHEATERS SAY THE FUNNIEST THINGS?

The "Thought Police" project is dead in the water. Even if you decide that you ought to tell other people what to think, feel, or imagine there is no way for you to do it. You will fail. You don't have that much control over other people. Get over yourself.

^Truth^

One step away from the Thought Police. I offer up the Dream Police.Tried to post the video but no go, so hum it in your head while you read.

The dream police

They live inside of my head

The dream police

They come to me in my bed

The dream police

They're coming to arrest me

Oh no

You know that talk is cheap

And rumors ain't nice

And when I fall asleep

I don't think I'll survive

The night the night

'Cause they're waiting for me

Looking for me

Every single night

(They're) driving me insane

Those men inside my brain

The dream police

They live inside of my head

The dream police

They come to me in my bed

The dream police

They're coming to arrest me

Oh no

Well I can't tell lies

'Cause they're listening to me

And when I fall asleep

Bet they're spying on me tonight,

Tonight

'Cause they're waiting for me

Looking for me

Every single night

(They're) driving me insane

Those men inside my brain

I try to sleep

They're wide awake

They won't let me alone

They don't get paid to take vacations

Or let me alone

They spy on me

I try to hide

They won't let me alone

They persecute me

They're the judge and jury all in one

'Cause they're waiting for me

Looking for me

Every single night

(They're) driving me insane

Those men inside my brain

The dream police

They live inside of my head

The dream police they come

To me in my bed

The dream police

They're coming to arrest me

The dream police (police, police)

The dream police (police, police)

Songwriters: Rick Nielsen

Dream Police lyrics © Sony/ATV Music Publishing LLC, Kobalt Music Publishing Ltd.

OMG, Optionedout...if there was a WTF Dumbass! award, your WH would be a serious contender!

I think I might have a bit of a different POV on on optionedout's post. People can't control their dreams or how they react to them. Have you ever had a bad dream about your partner and woken up angry at him? I have. I have had orgadm dreams about other people while lying next to my H. They mostly happen when I'm pregnant.

I don't think I've ever had an erotic dream about my H, and he's very attractive, attentive, and the best sex I've ever had. I don't dream about people I know, though. It's either my TV character crush or someone random.

Now, the part about not dreaming about OW proving he didn't have sex with her is bullshit. That proves nothing. And, the statement that he tried to fantasize about you but it didn't work is just hurtful. I wouldn't like being put in a lineup with exes and then tossed, either.

I love that Police song!

Yeah, no one should want to control what others think. Some fantasize, some don't. Maybe we all do and don't admit it. But for heaven's sake! If you're going to do it, and it's about other people in your past or friends, whatever? Don't tell your spouse about it! Some things should be kept in your head, right? Celebrity crushes I get. Imaginary people who don't really exist? I get that too. But telling your spouse about someone who was part of your life or is a friend or neighbor, etc? Prrrrrobably not the best idea. Your mileage may vary.

Of course, now that I know WH was not only having wet dreams about his exes, but he was also putting me in a masturbation lineup and chose them EVERY time, and that EVERY time I couldn't 'do it' for him. That's just cruel and hurtful to know. I also feel like he's never gotten over them, that they're sexually more appealing.

He's tried to prove that they're not better by asking me to look them up on FB so I could see photos of them. It doesn't matter what I think. It's what I now think HE thinks of me sexually.

I think some fantasies should be kept under wraps.

ETA: Now, I can't have sex with WH without the lights out AND me thinking of someone else. How dysfunctional is THAT? <---embarrassed to say it, but it's true. Sigh.

[This message edited by OptionedOut at 10:24 AM, April 25th (Thursday)]

Totally agree with that. ^^^

Who are these dumbasses who tell their spouse about fantasies like that?!? Unless it’s a mutually enjoyable way for a couple to get their rocks off by swapping fantasies, I actually think it’s totally bizarre to even consider telling anyone.

now that I know WH was not only having wet dreams about his exes, but he was also putting me in a masturbation lineup and chose them EVERY time, and that EVERY time I couldn't 'do it' for him. That's just cruel and hurtful to know

It *is* very hurtful! There's a definable difference between a dream or daydream which just happens and is not under your control, and a deliberate sustained sexual fantasy. I'm surprised so many ppl are so blase about this behavior, as it seems to me that as soon as you start to think about a close friend or colleague in these terms you are overstepping a small boundary and opening the doors to inappropriate behavior.

Maybe it's just my situation which has made me think this way. WS has not fantasized about many rl ppl he has actual contact with AFAIK (and why would he admit some, not others?). But I did find out after the fact that he fantasized about a friend, who he went on to an EA and subsequent PA with. More recently, he'd admitted fantasizing about a work colleague, and putting it together afterwards, they'd started messaging, seeing each other in a social group, and he'd asked her out for a drink alone, all while becoming more detached from me, which is exactly how the A started. I just was aware of this one early on.

So to me, if he's allowing these fantasies, he's allowing inappropriate thoughts, which lead to inappropriate behavior, and I can't be sure where he'll stop. So out of respect for our relationship, he should be keeping his mind out of his friends and colleagues pants. Probably not the case for everyone, but it seems sensible in our case. Couldn't care less who else he fantasizes about, just as long as it's not anyone he could potentially have an A with.