This Topic is Archived
psychmom ( member #47498) posted at 1:29 AM on Sunday, September 8th, 2019
HITR, your story was my story prior to DDAY1. Our M was toxic, and in that crappy M we lived separate lives, and I more or less ignored my H for years before he started his first of 3 affairs. A large part of his motivation to chest was to feel attractive and cared for by someone. He also had "issues" that I was unaware of before DDAY1 that allowed him to cheat rather than come to me.
So as I read your post I felt a great deal of recognition. Because after DDAY, he did everything in his power to try to undo the damage he'd done, including 3 yrs of IC, MC, and a lot more. Like you, I would be happy for awhile, then angry and lash out. This went on for years, and I still can go off on him. But I'm much more aware and careful today. I know he's doing his best, I know he wants R to work. And I realize I can't keep using him as my punching bag. I think you've now realized this, too.
A book that helped me see this was one his IC revommended...."I love you but I don't trust you." You might find it helpful.
There is still time to change things. But you need to address your issues, and he needs to get back to IC and start the work again of figuring out this epic fail on his part. You two also need to spend time talking. Time to open your heart to him. And if you choose to R, you need to both get 110% on board.
BS (me); fWH (both 50+; married 20 yr at the time; 2 DD DDay 1- 9/13/2014 (EA)- 3+ yrsDDay 2- 10/24/2014(PA2)-July'14-Sept'14DDay 3- 11/12/2014(PA1)-Oct-Feb '14Reconciled
Iwantmyglasses ( member #57205) posted at 1:18 PM on Sunday, September 8th, 2019
I could have written your exact post word for word regarding the anger and the abuse by me.
When I first joined SI I read a post in R about a BS who was intent on staying because she didn’t want any other woman having her place with her husband and the life she built. This BS was miserable. She was living in unhappiness. No work on her end. I vowed I would not become that.
What I didn’t account for was the anger and the injustice. At two years out, I began EMDR. My therapist kept urging me to read TUTU’s book on forgiveness. I basically bitched slapped her verbally for even suggesting it.
She would bring it up from time to time. I finally read it. WOW!! Personally, I think it’s a must eead in R.
Tutu and EMDR have given my life back to me. The affair stings. Sometimes it stings worse than other days. However, I am happy.
If you want to R, you will need to let go of the affair. Letting go of the affair doesn’t mean you don’t have boundaries. It doesn’t mean you won’t feel sad. It means you focus on you . loving and living your best life now.
It’s been on year of EMDR for me. I am still going.
Please stop abusing yourself. You are withholding a loving marriage from yourself. This is your decision. If you want this marriage.....go to EMDR and read Tutus book.
I don’t think this is the time to move. I say focus on your healing for a year and then move.
Also my mother told me the same thing as yours.
[This message edited by Iwantmyglasses at 7:19 AM, September 8th (Sunday)]
HowIsThisReal (original poster member #50235) posted at 2:23 PM on Sunday, September 8th, 2019
Thank you for the support and sharing your experiences psychmom and IWMG.
The move is inevitable, if we don't work out, I would need to be near family and friends, if we don't work out and we are still in this state I will literally be completely alone with no-one to turn to, and may even have trouble getting the rights to move the kids out of state/ back to my home state with me.
The move isn't going to be for another 8 to 9 months as it is, but it's partially a safety guarantee on my end.
You are withholding a loving marriage from yourself.
I've never even thought of it this way. It's true.
And I realize I can't keep using him as my punching bag. I think you've now realized this, too.
Yes. I do, I'm slightly horrified at looking back on my own behavior. I've never treated ANYONE that way in my life. I've always been the "nice girl" who never even gossiped at work. What I transformed into because of the pain is crazy.
I'm going to check out both of those books, thanks for the recommendations psychmom and IWMG.
We have also talked about a post-nup and he's agreed to sign one. We are just going to use a template from online, as we don't have a ton of assets, so it'll be pretty simple and to the point. Who gets what share of any property, how we'd split any savings, I'll get alimony, maybe a certain percentage of his check, etc. I told him it will weigh heavily in my favor because it's a form of protection for me, he's ok with that.
[This message edited by HowIsThisReal at 8:29 AM, September 8th (Sunday)]
Me: BS | D-Day 11/3/2015
Took about 5 years of hard work, but we are R'd.
psychmom ( member #47498) posted at 6:49 PM on Sunday, September 8th, 2019
We have also talked about a post-nup and he's agreed to sign one. We are just going to use a template from online, as we don't have a ton of assets, so it'll be pretty simple and to the point. Who gets what share of any property, how we'd split any savings, I'll get alimony, maybe a certain percentage of his check, etc. I told him it will weigh heavily in my favor because it's a form of protection for me, he's ok with that.
Whatever you need to do to feel more safe and confident about him is what you need to do. I didn't get a post-nup, but we spent a lot of time talking about how things would be split up if I decided to bail on him and the M. I needed to hear certain things from him, and I did. But I think a post-nup is actually a very smart move.
You're making some good decisions, and you're wise to be taking some time to figure out why this betrayal has triggered your anger the way it has. There is likely something there for you to discover and better understand. The books are a good way to begin this self-exploration, HITR. I am more aware of my own "issues" after all that's happened over the 5 years since DDay. Just as my H had many things he needed to face and sort out, I've got a short list of my own.
DDay was a wake up call on many levels for me and for this M. I wish I'd come to these realizations without the trauma of betrayal, but without it, I'm not sure the motivation to do this hard work would have been there. Sad, but true.
BS (me); fWH (both 50+; married 20 yr at the time; 2 DD DDay 1- 9/13/2014 (EA)- 3+ yrsDDay 2- 10/24/2014(PA2)-July'14-Sept'14DDay 3- 11/12/2014(PA1)-Oct-Feb '14Reconciled
HowIsThisReal (original poster member #50235) posted at 12:51 PM on Monday, September 9th, 2019
I keep feeling ashamed that I'm still here and didn't leave after 2nd "d-day". Like fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
[This message edited by HowIsThisReal at 6:56 AM, September 9th (Monday)]
Me: BS | D-Day 11/3/2015
Took about 5 years of hard work, but we are R'd.
HowIsThisReal (original poster member #50235) posted at 2:12 PM on Monday, September 9th, 2019
Before this, I could say that he did the work, never wavered, never gave up on fixing what he did to our marriage, never gave up on me. Now I can't say that.
Me: BS | D-Day 11/3/2015
Took about 5 years of hard work, but we are R'd.
HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 5:39 PM on Monday, September 9th, 2019
I don't know if this has been mentioned, as most of this thread is focused on your behavior, but he was developing an EA with this coworker, and it crossed into a PA with the kiss.
You were wrong in how you treated him. But, regardless of what some have said, that does not excuse his choice to cheat again. He could have made other choices. He could have told you he was divorcing you. He could have chosen any number of different options, but instead he chose to cheat again. He could have chosen to keep his integrity, and not break that trust. He did not choose that.
I'm not saying what you did was right, because it absolutely was not. Your emotional abuse, does not give him a license to cheat. Just as his cheating, does not give you a license to be emotionally abusive. Both of you were wrong. I haven't read anything about what to do about the co-worker. She says she's not the type of girl to fool around in a car, and have sex. But she's the type of girl who will flirt, message, and call a married man. She is the type of girl who will have an affair with a married man, because she was doing just that. He still works with her?
I just feel, that his actions, are being overshadowed by your emotional abuse. Again you were wrong. But that does not give him a license to have another affair. He still has a lot of work to do on himself. He is not a safe partner for you.
But you are what you did
And I'll forget you, but I'll never forgive
The smallest man who ever lived..
Ifeelalone ( member #53063) posted at 6:31 PM on Monday, September 9th, 2019
HITR,
I think about you from time to time. My husband also had anonymous sex with strangers. And we are on the same time line. I always felt like we were processing things similarly. I don't post often, but do try and read. I just want you to know you have been heard and you are doing the best you can given the crappy situation you are in. Give yourself some grace- no one taught us how to deal with liars/cheaters/adulterous husbands... especially with small children and no family around (same situation for me)... you are in my thoughts and prayers.
HowIsThisReal (original poster member #50235) posted at 7:13 PM on Monday, September 9th, 2019
I just feel, that his actions, are being overshadowed by your emotional abuse. Again you were wrong. But that does not give him a license to have another affair. He still has a lot of work to do on himself. He is not a safe partner for you.
It's definitely NOT a license for him to cheat. I don't think anyone is saying that.
Did he react to her advances? Yes, but HE didn't start the EA with her, she started it and he had/still has poor boundaries and let it happen, he jumped at the first person who gave him positive attention after 4 years of no attention or horrible, negative attention. Still not acceptable or excusable AT ALL, I will never ever *excuse* cheating, and I don't feel I played any part in his actual choice in that moment, to cheat. I never blamed myself for his previous cheating ever. I felt I was a victim, but I never felt I was (not even partially) the cause.
He's going back to IC so I guess we will see what happens. I am having an angry day today where I needed space when I got home from work and I texted him ahead of time letting him know that. He's respecting it, but in a little bit we are going to start talking about MC and he's going to continue his search for a IC.
[This message edited by HowIsThisReal at 1:25 PM, September 9th (Monday)]
Me: BS | D-Day 11/3/2015
Took about 5 years of hard work, but we are R'd.
HowIsThisReal (original poster member #50235) posted at 7:29 PM on Monday, September 9th, 2019
I just want you to know you have been heard and you are doing the best you can given the crappy situation you are in. Give yourself some grace- no one taught us how to deal with liars/cheaters/adulterous husbands... especially with small children and no family around (same situation for me)... you are in my thoughts and prayers.
Thank you. I feel like I don't know what I'm doing half the time in life. This is no different.
I saw this meme on FB that said something along the lines of 'I don't even make decisions about my life anymore, it's more like "oh we're doing this now? Ok".
And I felt it was spot on. I have no clue how we got so damn far from what I had imagined our life to be. Not even just the cheating but living out of state, me becoming such a miserable, anxious person, and all that.
Me: BS | D-Day 11/3/2015
Took about 5 years of hard work, but we are R'd.
SumofOne ( member #70948) posted at 8:31 PM on Monday, September 9th, 2019
I am sure others have said this and I haven't read all replies but, how you describe yourself is how I was towards my WW. I thought she deserved to be punished and I talked to her awful and treated her poorly. It was almost like I was trying to push her away.
Cheating is never the answer and I am certain that has been said a bazillion times in this thread. So many other ways to deal with problems but some people are broken in ways that makes them think cheating is an option. That has to be fixed if it can be.
Idc what others think, I do know that most days I stole my wife's joy. She shouldn't have cheated on me and I don't blame myself but I am aware of my complete shitty behavior and the toll it took on her.
The person you would take a bullet for is behind the trigger.
20yrsagoBS ( member #55272) posted at 10:15 PM on Monday, September 9th, 2019
HITR,
Please forgive me if I missed this, but HOW does entering into a new relationship (with his COW) make WH feel better about your treatment of him?
I'm sincerely NOT being sarcastic. YOU can be an asshole. The responsibility lies on you to treat him better . Or, HE needs to leave you if he doesn't like to be treated that way.
Bringing in another person doesn't change ANY of that.
It's still, simply, dirty cheating. It's like him ASKING for you to continue treating him poorly by doing the very thing that started that treatment to begin with.
BW, 54 WH 53 When you lie down with dogs, you wake up with fleas
swmnbc ( member #49344) posted at 10:50 PM on Monday, September 9th, 2019
It's like him ASKING for you to continue treating him poorly by doing the very thing that started that treatment to begin with.
No, no one asks to be abused by making poor choices.
Iwantmyglasses ( member #57205) posted at 11:23 PM on Monday, September 9th, 2019
I went back and read your backstory. It’s going to take so much work for you to learn to live in joy with him. Random Craigslist hookups with whoever was available. I read he also did E and pills.
You have every right to be angry. But NOT abusive for 4 years.
He had zero right to kiss the OW
You both need to dig deep if you want a happy and monogamous marriage.
HowIsThisReal (original poster member #50235) posted at 12:54 AM on Tuesday, September 10th, 2019
HOW does entering into a new relationship (with his COW) make WH feel better about your treatment of him?
I can't answer this. How does cheating make any of these waywards feel better about their lives or themselves?
He says he wishes he had made a better choice, or had the boundary awareness to see what was happening from the get go, he says it's no excuse but when she showed interest in him it made him feel like maybe someone could actually care about him or think he's attractive because I had made it damn clear that I found him ugly and stupid (again, not an excuse).
It wasn't a "real" relationship which doesn't disqualify it as cheating.
Timeline was:
August 22nd with her singling him out from a group email by sending a private reply to only him instead of replying to the whole group email,
...to her sending GIFs, jokes, etc over the next few days and making him more comfortable with talking to her about non-work related topics...
...to her asking for his cell number so they could talk about movies or whatever (his cell number is public knowledge anyway, all of the employee numbers are),
...to her asking for a ride home on Friday, August 30th, which is when she kissed him and he didn't pull away immediately, to September 1st when I noticed she had texted him saying "GN" to September 2nd when I decided to look through all the records and his work emails to piece together what was happening, to d-day #2 on September 3rd where he admitted it all.
When I texted and asked her about it she said she wouldn't get down and dirty in a car with someone she barely knows. Obviously she's got some moral issues because she chased after a married man.
So it all happened from 8/22/19 - 9/3/19, 12 days, I looked at the GPS app, he drove her home, was there outside of her apt for approx 7 minutes, then he drove back to work. He said they were talking about work and she just came in for the kiss, and he absolutely should have pulled away.
So I guess, the brief and temporary excitement overshadowed logic and reason, as it does for most waywards.
[This message edited by HowIsThisReal at 6:58 PM, September 9th (Monday)]
Me: BS | D-Day 11/3/2015
Took about 5 years of hard work, but we are R'd.
HowIsThisReal (original poster member #50235) posted at 1:08 AM on Tuesday, September 10th, 2019
I went back and read your backstory. It’s going to take so much work for you to learn to live in joy with him. Random Craigslist hookups with whoever was available. I read he also did E and pills.
You have every right to be angry. But NOT abusive for 4 years.
He had zero right to kiss the OW
You both need to dig deep if you want a happy and monogamous marriage.
What sucks is that I pretty much had trust back, he had done so much work over the course of those 4 years, so while I didn't show it, I trusted him 95% to not cheat again, I guess it was the wrong KIND of trust.
I trusted him not to go looking for random hookups, he had done SO much work in IC to see that it was disgusting, disturbing and shameful.
And honestly I DIDN'T think other women would find him attractive, he had become unattractive to me because I saw him under the veil of infidelity and pain. I didn't see or even bother to think about what other people saw when they looked at him. So I kind of trusted (for lack of a better word) that he wouldn't cheat at work or anything because who would want him? (It's fucked up, I know. Infidelity has fucked me up in some major ways). I figured if someone did come onto him he'd have more established boundaries from his IC, but they worked more on why he did what he did before, and how it bordered on addiction.
Anyway, it's all kinds of fucked up. Infidelity broke me, in so many ways and I obviously need IC again to deal with my own shit. He needs IC again to learn better boundaries and work through the way I've made him feel, he HONESTLY feels like he's ugly, gross and incompetent and it's because of 4 years of me pounding it into his head.
I sure as hell see him now through other people's eyes, funny, tall, decent looking, etc. All the things I used to see in him. It's NOT because of d-day, and I won't admit it, even if it is.
If we go with R, it's obvious that we need a lot of therapy to sort ourselves out, MC, and IC.
If we go with D I will be heart broken and mad not only at him, but at myself.
[This message edited by HowIsThisReal at 7:18 PM, September 9th (Monday)]
Me: BS | D-Day 11/3/2015
Took about 5 years of hard work, but we are R'd.
Carissima ( member #66330) posted at 7:42 AM on Tuesday, September 10th, 2019
Did he ask for a divorce before or after his recent cheating. You said in your initial post it was about 3wks ago so that would make it around the time it happened.
I'm not excusing his cheating, just wondering how it fit into the timeline you provided.
HowIsThisReal (original poster member #50235) posted at 12:04 PM on Tuesday, September 10th, 2019
He said it before she started emailing him.
He kind of "took it back" the next day after I was upset. We hadn't agreed to divorce or anything, we hadn't agreed on anything really, life just kind of went on afterwards.
[This message edited by HowIsThisReal at 6:32 AM, September 10th (Tuesday)]
Me: BS | D-Day 11/3/2015
Took about 5 years of hard work, but we are R'd.
Twitchy ( member #25393) posted at 1:25 PM on Tuesday, September 10th, 2019
I'm sorry, HITR,
I'm the poster child for WS hatred. After over 10 years, I still have fantasies of winning the lottery and having the resources to destroy the life of the POSOM in my case.
But I would not have been able to live in the environment you described. Human connections and some form of affection is a basic human need. You used it like a weapon. I'd have left long ago.
I won't post in your thread again.
BH(me)-57, FWW-Past,D-Day #1 - Oct 2007 - On-Line EA leading to a failed rendez-vous. D-Day #2 - Nov 2008 - In person EA caught early.
Away you will go, sailing in a race among the ruins.If you plan to face tomorrow, do it soon. Gordon Li
HowIsThisReal (original poster member #50235) posted at 3:20 PM on Tuesday, September 10th, 2019
Twitchy it's ok, I can take some gentle 2x4s about my own behavior and his behavior, I couldn't handle anyone shaming me for still wanting to R after d-day 2, or telling me he's irredeemable or anything like that, that was what I meant about not being able to handle any 2x4s in my OP.
[This message edited by HowIsThisReal at 12:49 PM, September 10th (Tuesday)]
Me: BS | D-Day 11/3/2015
Took about 5 years of hard work, but we are R'd.
This Topic is Archived