SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

EA or PA?

She will be basically saying it is an EA until proven a PA.

You just need to flip this on its head. Tell her since she is now a proven liar, you are going to assume it is a PA until she can convince you it was an EA, and act accordingly.

This puts you in control, not her.

It makes her winning play being honest, instead of more lying.

Sending strength!

Tell her since she is now a proven liar, you are going to assume it is a PA

Thanks. Yes, I recently told her this (if only I'd found this forum and its sound advice sooner...). Given she's admitted to there being a deep, passionate kiss and, wanting sex with him, I've told her it's a physical affair.

[This message edited by BSPheonix at 10:08 AM, November 28th (Thursday)]

A reputable attorney should be able to help draw up a post nup that will stand up in court.

Just want to say a massive thanks to all. I've read all you've said several times and, I'm taking it all on board. VAR devices are in place now (Amazon Prime was worth it), WW has agreed to do a timeline tonight, with a view to a poly.

Phoenix, I’m really encouraged you are taking action. We see too many times BS’s who are frozen in shock and fear. They understandably just want their old life and old wife back, and this desire makes them go soft, rugsweep and allow blameshifting.

I myself made some of these mistakes (tho I’ve also been a hardass in other areas where It counts). But a few of these mistakes (like not insisting on a poly) have been enough to put me in a painful limbo and I’m only now taking some necessary steps to get clear. Don’t do what I did.

Continue to stay strong and keep moving forward. It’s the only way to get clear of her infidelity and establish a new life — with her or without her.

Do insist on STD testing for her immediately. No delays. And stay celibate with her if you can, and don’t fall into hysterical bonding. HB can feel healing and in many ways it is, but I think it muddies the waters (did in my case) and will make you lose focus.

[Thumos said] Continue to stay strong and keep moving forward.

Thank you, I will. My children alone are worth it. I'm going DEFCON 1 on this (albeit a bit later than I should have but, I've only recently had the benefit of this forum and, people like your good self). The only thing which has stopped me moving out is fearing spoiling Christmas for my children but, I'm beginning to think that I can be present without them noticing anything different.

[This message edited by BSPheonix at 10:35 AM, November 28th (Thursday)]

Another question: should I tell my wife I've attempted contact with the AP's wife?

No, don't tell WW about informing OBS.

If WW comes back at you, you'll know she's still in contact with AP.

Your wife has had an EA that turned physical.

I doubt it was kissing only. Passionate kisses quickly turn to more as hands begin to roam.

She has admitted she wanted sex with another man. That alone is enough for a separation. She cannot turn those feeling off with the flick of a switch. And she acted on it, thought she may not have taken it as far as she wanted. That is the key word here - it is what she wanted.

Time for a polygraph to find out the truth of how far physical her affair has gone.

And - hell no - don't tell your wife you contacted OM's wife.

At this moment your wife is not your ally.

Hi BSP,

Sorry you're here. I've been really impressed how you've stepped up and are handling things.

My sense is that the AP might have either dumped WW or at the very least pulled back. Hard to say this, but I think you were plan B all along and that this would have turned out very differently if AP was still interested. I would almost want to confront her with this scnario.

Stay strong!

The only thing which has stopped me moving out is fearing spoiling Christmas for my children but, I'm beginning to think that I can be present without them noticing anything different.

Understandable. My D-Day was only a week before Christmas and I was horrified at the thought of blowing that up for my kids. I was also — like you — in complete shock.

Please don’t move out of the family home. She should do that, not you. We’ve seen too many cases of BH’s moving out only to find their possessions in a storage container (or worse just gone) and the AP shacking up with the WW. This is also usually a prelude to WW’s provoking and staging a DV charge against a betrayed husband and then getting a VPO against them. Don’t let that happen to you.

Don’t move out. And keep a VAR in your pocket at all times to document her behavior. In most states and I think in most countries it is legal for you to record a one on one in person conversation for your protection.

Also NEVER EVER let your wife know about any of the VARS or recordings. NEVER.

This is all excellent advice and, I can't begin to thank you enough.

I agree that since she is the one who had the A then she should go stay at her sister's or a friend or a hotel.

If she uses that time to hook up with her her BF then that is her choice and puts a hard stop to the R.

We did not have kids but I asked her to go stay with her sister after I found out that the MC was a waste.

Xmas wil be over in a month, you can get thru it. Give a card with a gift cert for a poly.

I discovered the A in August (same month my mom died) she moved out in October I served via mail the divorce papers in December, I also included a Christmas card.

Gift certificate for a poly may be one of the most perfect things ever posted in this forum. Damn. Hat’s off. Give it serious consideration.

You need to see a lawyer about what's enforceable in a post nup in your state but you should be looking to get alimony excluded if there's any further infidelity, with that defined in the postnup to include an EA. You usually can't do anything about custody or child support but can work something out about division of assets.

Gift certificate for a poly may be one of the most perfect things ever posted in this forum. Damn. Hat’s off. Give it serious consideration.

Yes. Love it. And along those lines....maybe a Ancestry DNA family pack. To confirm the kids paternity.

A Holidays to remember. At least for her.

AP's wife contacted mother-in-law

So,l messaged (Facebook) the AP's wife. As I said before, they seem to be separated. Instead of contacting me however, she made contact with my mother-in-law (it seems they know each other!) and, simply stated what I'd messaged (the main details and that I thought she had a right to know should she still be involved). That resulted in me being rounded on by my in-laws and wife that evening, saying I was out of order. I told them I was perfectly justified. They also said that suggesting my wife has a polygraph (my wife told them) is irrational, as is an STD test, post-nup, etc. and, that I'm being emotionally abusive. They suggested that much of this has to do with unresolved bereavement issues that have been amplified by the affair! Listening to the VAR recordings of convos my wife had with her mother and best friend the next day make me feel like I'm living inside a crazy movie. I think my wife may be a compulsive liar, whereas her parents perspectives are shaped by 2 main drivers: loyalty to their daughter and, a misperception of me based on past lies about my behaviour.

On one of the VAR recordings, my mother-in-law says to my wife she's surprised she didn't have an affair earlier after how I've treated her the past couple of years! I've treated her extremely well. Her friends even joke about how much I do compared to their husbands (not her best friend though, as I've seen some of the blatant lie messages to her).

My mother-in-law can also be heard (the day after our 'discussion') describing her astonishment at my 'arrogance' and 'indifference' when the three of them were sitting crying. I wasn't arrogant or indifferent but, rather, sitting in pain (I have a chronic pain condition) and, disbelief. Regardless, she character-assassinated me to my wife. Surprisingly, my wife attempted to defend me (a little) but made most of it about herself.

Why foster a negative perception of your partner in others? Victim complex? Narcissism?

[This message edited by BSPheonix at 9:54 AM, November 30th (Saturday)]

180, 180 and 180 her some more.

She is trying to rugsweep you here super hard and bringing in her family to bully you into compliance.

Not wanting to take the poly means she is lying. I thought she was gonna write a timeline this weekend how is that coming up?

Get to see a lawyer asap and have divorce papers ready, maybe even serve her. STD check (even more so now that she doesn't seem to want to do it), timeline and poly are conditio sine qua non for R.

They might try to bully you into leaving the house, don't do it, keep a var on you and protect yourself.

Lovely MIL...but they she is putting a protection ring around her daughter. Your wife is lying to cover her ass and save her reputation in front of her mother. easier to blame you than take responsibility.

All of the tests would be welcomed by an innocent wife, if she is telling the truth she will pass a poly and STI test, if she never cheated the Ancestry DNA test will show you are the dad. Easy Peasy. If not then there's a problem.

Admitting to deep passionate kissing...Well 99% of the time when the mouths are kissing the hands are wandering so it's not just a kiss. You have more to learn.

Keep strong BSP

[This message edited by MickeyBill2016 at 10:15 AM, November 30th (Saturday)]

Her parents have convinced her that doing a timeline by herself is also emotional bullying and evidence of my psychosis. She (my wife) says I know all the timeline because I've assembled it myself. It's true, I can write dates and times of the significant events I know of. She's said to her best friend (I listened to a VAR) she's told me everything (the best friend she's lied about me to) and, her best friend even suggested she (my wife) should let me leave if I want to. At that point my wife burst into tears and said she doesn't want that.

[This message edited by BSPheonix at 10:24 AM, November 30th (Saturday)]

The point is not to have an “outline” which you already have. The point is her writing a detailed narrative in which it’s harder for her to lie and give you details about a period of your life she stole from you.

Betrayal trauma therapists will insist that a wayward do a detailed narrative disclosure — so your MIL is full of shit and doesn’t know what she is talking about.

Polys for infidelity are so common and expected that they are offered in every major city in the U.S.

Stay frosty. Don’t lose your nerve here. Stick to your guns.

It’s common for in-laws to circle the wagons.

Hard 180 and give her a separation agreement.

Give her the package of non negotiables and it’s “do this or we are done”

If, and that's still an if, you want to reconcile you can't forgive her until you know what you are forgiving. If she insists nothing more than kissing she needs to use her brain and figure a way to prove that to you. IMO a makeout session could be hard to forgive....

She is listening to toxic people who may lead her towards a divorce because of their blameshifting to you. She may not really want that, but wants to save face in front of her family. They are enemies of the marriage.