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Geek42,

Going to be blunt here.

I had a quick read of your previous thread, and you had already posted that she had chosen her AP, and yet, here you are, 2mths later, still hoping and waiting.

When you next see your IC, please address your issues on your fears. They are the cause of why you are where you are now.... in limbo. This is extremely crucial for you if you want to have a way forward. MC is a moot point now, as you do not have a M, as your WW has chosen her AP.

As long as her AP is still in the picture, you do not have a functioning M.

If you want to start to make changes, first start with logging in the date when your WW moved to her own bedroom. That can be Day 1 of the (in-house) separation. This will reduce the 1yr separation time, and can fast track your D if it has to come to that.

Good that you are going ahead with getting some consultations with lawyers, that is a great step.

Next, keep to the 180. It is not to be used as a tool to 'get back' at your WW, but as away to heal yourself. It is for YOU, not because you want to have an effect on someone else. You need to help yourself first (like the rationale behind the oxygen masks on aircraft; once you help yourself, you can then help others more effectively).

All in all, you will also need to start marching to your own drum, not your WWs. YOU set the pace and direction. If she follows, you may have a chance at R, if she does not, then you know who she wants (hint: her AP as was stated in your previous thread).

Geek. You need to stop being so wishy washy about NC with her AP.

Clearly state, that you will not live a life with a wife who is having an affair of any type and that unless contact with him is cut, FOREVER, and in a way that you approve (eg No “lat goodbyes”) that you are moving on out of this relationship without her.

What good is giving her TIME to “ramp down” the affair doing for you? Every day is new pain that she is communicating, in a loving way, to this (perhaps no longer) homeless man? If just brings daily pain.

You are doing well about telling her that you are pursuing divorce. State it plainly if she asks. “Yes, you are still having an affair and in love with another man so I will be divorcing you.” If she wants to do something about it, she will. But you cannot NICE her I to loving you again. She’s hooked on her AP.

As for your feelings, not that she will ask, but if it comes up, honestly tell her that your heart is broken, but you won’t live a life where you have to share your partners affection with anyone, so you will work to heal on your own, without her, and legally end the marriage that her actions and choices have already destroyed.

I believe in two things, honesty and minimizing interaction with a partner who is actively cheating.

Your kids need a parent in you who is not actively suffering from torment. That is the gift you can give them. It’s unfortunate if in order to have that their parents cannot stay married, but in the long run, they will be happier if you can be happy too.

So in your list, item one, please, I’m begging you, change it to “until you have complete NC forever with the other man, and see him as someone who helped you damage your husband and family, there can be and will be no chance for us to remain together. “

It’s your life Geek. You get to ask for exactly what you need to be happy in any relationship. And if you don’t get it you get to choose to no longer have that relationship.

I am very pro-reconciliation. But only when it’s done the right way, with two partners absolutely keeping each others best interests, and only their partners feelings in mind and no one else’s. You don’t have that right now, so your only path, until she turns and faces your way and takes steps in your direction, is to talk to a lawyer and start the process to have her served.

If the other man is her “soul mate” then you shouldn’t and couldn’t keep her from finding her true love. If he isn’t (which i suspect it’s the truth) best let her go to figure that out, because if somehow you keep her around, she’ll always have cause to wonder, “what might have been” and her body may be with you, but her heart definitely will not.

If this man is what she wants, let her find out what life will be like with him. Tell her you are letting her go pursue her dreams of happiness with him. That you are worth more than a woman who is pining away for someone else.

Geek, there is someone out there who will love you and focus on you and no one else. Start taking the steps to find happiness on your own, and eventually someone who deserves your affection.

What good is giving her TIME to “ramp down” the affair doing for you?

From what I have observed here, the very first trauma is the fear or certainty that you are going to lose life as you know it. A lot of BS focus on, "He wasn't going to leave me" or "I asked if she was leaving me." This 'leaving' thing in terms of rejection, worrying about sharing kids, and wondering about paying bills is a big deal.

THEN the secondary trauma sets in, the reality that a wayward physically staying but emotionally leaving is actually 'being left' after all. And betrayeds want no part of the physical presence without the emotional commitment. Of course. But this is NOT the first feeling! The first fear is "Don't leave me!" It feels like a tsunami coming.

You are getting past the initial trauma, Geek42, and realizing the secondary trauma is just as bad. You have your "life," but what is it when your spouse is not enotionally present? What IS IT that you actually have right now?

Bad:

Loneliness

Disrespect

PTSD

Nightmares

Lack of safety

Humiliation

Feeling untethered

Sadness

Neglect

Emasculation

Heartache

Depression

Embarrassment

Good:

Co-parent

Shared bills

So yes, I see why you fear the first trauma. But the secondary trauma is presenting you with far more crap than one human being can handle, for just a small amount of good in return. The 180 says that the list of negatives in your life ends now! You will seek out others and not be lonely, get hobbies to ward of depression, get IC to conquer the PTSD and lack of safety. The 180 is you taking caring of you. Pretend she is a roommate sharing the bills, a nanny. That's how much you interact with her. It's time to focus on your own life and pull yourself from the secondary trauma.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 8:18 AM, June 1st (Monday)]

Ok. I may get a smackdown from most of you here. But I did something. I had the conversation with my WW. Her breaking point to A was years of me not showing my emotions. She thought I really didn't love her. To a point where 2 IC and her parents and best friend said that she should probably leave the M. I'm guessing years ago.

Tonight I talked to her about how I have my issues that pre-dated her, but didn't really discover about myself until our first MC session/D-Day: A combination of co-dependency and anxiety and fear. I pretty much told her that I've always loved her and that I just didn't know how to show it. I didn't know how to say it. But I never stopped loving her. I explained that my prior GF broke me even more (and she knew that was a toxic relationship.)

In the end, I asked to put her anger aside for a moment and think joining me to fix us. She's not sure she can fall in love with me again. I said, we did it once and maybe we could do it again or maybe not. But we could try with some MC help. I said that her "jury" didn't have all the facts, because I didn't give them my half. So of course they would say to "run away" they all thought I was a non-emotional black hole.

I said to think about it. I didn't bring up the A or the AP. It was just about us. We are both broken in some way and now we both know why and how.

I don't know what her answer will be. But I am decided now that if her answer is no, then that is it. We are done and won't be back together again.

This is what I wanted to do. If anything this will give me some closure. That it is really over. I said I didn't think letting things linger was doing either one of us any good.

So, yes, I do appreciate everybody here and the encouragement you have all given me. I will be back in a day or so and let you know where things stand. I have my own IC scheduled on Thursday. So, I'm still working on myself. I still have my new found meditation practice and I realized I don't want to be that broken me anymore. Not for my WW, but for me. So, if I get my final answer from her, then it will be the final answer and we'll just be another statistic in the books of failed marriages due to lack of communication. She'll be a liar about the A, and about wanting to "think about it" all this time while her mind was probably made up. I'll be sad. I'll go through the rest of the grieving stages but I'll get past it and move on. I have to. I have to be better for myself and better for my kids. Especially my 4yo boy.

So, if I get my final answer from her, then it will be the final answer and we'll just be another statistic in the books of failed marriages due to lack of communication. She'll be a liar about the A, and about wanting to "think about it" all this time while her mind was probably made up. I'll be sad. I'll go through the rest of the grieving stages but I'll get past it and move on. I have to. I have to be better for myself and better for my kids. Especially my 4yo boy.

Probably this.

To a point where 2 IC and her parents and best friend said that she should probably leave the M

Well, what a nice lady. She didn't honestly face you and leave you. She snuck around behind her H's back and lied. Any guy will want her in the future. They'll all understand, right? No, of course. None of them will. If you told any friend or relative, they would look at you like, "Dude, she is a skank. Why are you blaming yourself?" As you said, codependency. You are hoping that if you accept blame, maybe she'll stay. That makes me so sad for you.

She's a coward, a liar, a manipulator. She's weak, so weak that she'd rather blame you than her. I am positive that if she murdered you, she would try to explain why it was your fault. A real peach. What a catch!

Please get into IC.

The sooner, the better.

So, what happens if your WW still does not give you an answer in the next couple of days?

What is YOUR plan to move on with YOUR life? Or are you going to keep waiting? You are still waiting for her to hold you by your hand and lead you.

At the moment, the outcome of YOUR life is dependent on someone else to make the decision for you.

In your IC session, it would be good to get tip on how you can build up for self-esteem/respect. Once you have that going, it will set you up with a very good base from which to build your life.

Well. It's over. I made her choose, and she couldn't. She wanted more time. So I said "I guess it's over".

God I hope you are all right. I feel like crap right now.i can barely see the screen.

Not even about the affair. It's the idea that I made her feel neglected by me. My brain got screwed up by a previous relationship. We both recognize that. But she's not willing to help me help myself. She said she tried all these years and nothing changed. And now that I know more about myself it's too little to late.

Now she says she's gonna go find somewhere else to live and just come here for the kids during the day. Obviously gonna have to make more details. But yea.

This sucks. I'm so unsure if I made the right call.

You did everything you could do once you understood the situation. You absolutely made the right call.

You are unfairly blaming yourself.

Your wife tried. Tried what? Counseling together? Blunt discussions with you about how she felt? More than once she tried what?

I admitted to my H he wasn’t the best communicator BUT if it was serious or important he would tell me. I allowed him to share less and less. I saw it but did nothing.

So when he started his Affair b/c we were “disconnected” I had some time in that. But HE tent disconnected- not me. Of course I heard the usual Cheater excuses I didn’t love him blah blah blah.

Point is he did NOTHING about his unhappiness or mid life crisis except cheat. I saw he wasn’t communicating but accepted it. I didn’t cheat.

Some people don’t communicate well. But I knew my H loved me b/c up until his affair he was a good Husband. He didn’t need to tell me he loved me b/c he showed me he did. It with flowers or material things but with things like letting me sleep late and he sound get up with the kids or giving me time to go out with my friends or putting gas in my car for me etc.

Can you think of things you did for your wife that showed love? I’m sure you can.

Too bad she doesn’t see it.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 6:24 AM, June 2nd (Tuesday)]

Not even about the affair. It's the idea that I made her feel neglected by me.

It IS about the affair in two important ways. One, her still being emotionally connected to him makes her much less likely to want to R with you. Why would she? He's new and exciting. She doesn't have baggage with him. He's showering her with attention. R is impossible while OM is still the in the picture. Two, NOTHING you did or did not do caused her to cheat. NOTHING. People cheat in fantastic marriages and that wouldn't happen if your lack of affection and communication made her cheat. She had a choice when faced with your marriage problems. She could talk to you, go to MC, demand change, or even D you. She made the most selfish and worse choice she could have. That is on her. Not on you.

Keep your IC appointment. You need the support. You need to learn how to stop the guilt you're feeling over her bad choices. And it doesn't hurt to address pitfalls in communication but they are not why she cheated and not why she left. You're going to want to prepare yourself for her moving in with OM and going public.

G42, sorry it has come to this. I think we can all relate to how you feel. Your M failed. That sucks. And part of the failure of the M is your responsibility. The A was not. It still sucks.

I have to agree with FirstWife. WS's will often SAY they tried for years to "help". I think very few of them do that. My XWW gave me similar garbage about how I was hard to talk to or I didn't listen. I suggested MC several times prior to her A's (I think) and she always rejected it. Did you WW ever suggest counseling? Did she ever sit you down and tell you she had very serious concerns and was considering stepping out on you because of it? Probably not. But she can now make herself the martyr.

I hope you will soon be able to see the bright future you have ahead. You are working on learning from your past mistakes so that you can be a better partner in the future. At some point in the future, when you are ready, you can meet someone new. Someone who will not lie and cheat. You will be amazed how great that feels.

I'm beginning to see that now. Even now, she's very defensive when trying to make some more formal lines of responsibility. She flys back that I'm trying to be more controlling. Whatevs.

I think I realized this may be the right solution for one reason: I didn't have a total breakdown cry-fest like I did on D-Day. I cried a little this morning. It does still suck. It's still a failure in my eyes. But it wasn't just me that failed. I failed, but I didn't have the A. She failed and did.

So, we will get along. Raise the kids. I'm sure at some point AP will be introduced into their lives. He's not a mean person. So I don't actually worry about that. I decided I wasn't going to the family beach trip even for part of it in 2 weeks. She kinda blew that off. I just don't want to be that "close" to her right now. And in reality, I don't think she wants that either.

Maybe this really is what NC is supposed to be like now. Maybe I'll actually do it right. LOL No more puppy dogs. No more PMD. Even a tiny tiny bit of relief.

Oh, and I will be continuing to see my new IC (appt is this Thursday). I will also have one more meeting myself with the MC. I really do like her. If she was actually under my insurance, I would have just transitioned to her for my IC without a question since WW doesn't want to work with her. I may still see if I can financially do that. The MC does do individual therapy.

You have honestly told her what you need to remain and work on the marriage and she flat out objected. So you have your answer and the path to take. Work with your IC and talk to your lawyer.

You will find there may come a time where she realizes what she is losing and that what she thinks she is gaining does not live up to the fantasy. My hope is when that happens you are in a place where you don’t need her anymore and have found happiness with yourself and perhaps with someone new.

You did what you could Geek. She checked out. That's all there is to it, and once a woman loses her love and respect for a man there is not getting it back. The door is closed and sealed.

Move on with your life, get some counseling for your emotional stiffness, and know that there are decent people out there who don't cheat. Your WW knew what your prior GF did to you emotionally, and she went and cheated anyways. Instead of ending the marriage like an adult, she took the coward's way out and cheated.

Not even about the affair. It's the idea that I made her feel neglected by me.

Please do not take this guilt forward with you. Start talking to your IC now about leaving that in the past. Your WW has successfully cheated on you and gotten you to take responsibility for it. She is walking away and you are left with the blame. This is BS. Please drop this bit of baggage off and do not carry it any longer. Her infidelity is not your fault.

I'm sorry for you, but I'm glad you're moving forward in truth.

This is what I wanted to do.

This, above all else, is what's most important.

I do read a lot in what you've posted here that you're still blaming yourself--and worse, allowing yourself to take the blame, and allowing your wife to blame you--for all that has gone wrong here. I hope in time you come to realize that 1) you're wrong, and 2) it's not helpful to do this. It's not helpful in trying to get your wife "back," and it's not helpful in your own healing.

It also empowers your wife to put all of the blame on you. My wife said and did the same things, and actually I've seen it a million times here. In her mind, you're confirming for her that this affair is just a symptom of a bunch of shit you put her through, and none of it's her fault, and it's all your fault, and she's justified in having a boyfriend and moving forward with him. Her conscience is clean, and it's all on you.

There is literally nothing more empowering to a WW to continue an affair than having everyone convinced--ESPECIALLY her husband--that the affair is her husband's fault. You are giving power to the affair with this taking-on of the blame. Her relationship with this man is now more "legitimate" than ever before.

You are you. That is it. You're not perfect, but you're not a monster, either. You're a human being, and it's clear you're a pretty damn good one. Don't pretend, even to yourself, that this is on you. It's a lie.

God I hope you are all right.

About what? This is a real question that I hope you answer. We'll be able to confirm whether we're right or not.

This sucks. I'm so unsure if I made the right call.

Is it because you think that, by telling her she had to choose you or her boyfriend, and she said she needed "more time," you think you've "pushed her away?"

Nope.

I know you're still hoping that she'll "wake up" and come back to you.

I still think that could happen for you if you can do the 180. I'm not sure you can fully see the gravity of what that would look like...having your long-cheating wife come back to you, and what that would really, really feel like and be like in the end...but I can tell that's what you still want.

There is never a guarantee of that. No one can give that guarantee to you.

But you can give yourself the chance. That can only come when you really submit to the process, the reality that you can't share her, and the reality that you have to go another way as long as you are sharing her.

Implement your 180 now. It really is time. No more taking the blame, no more talking and explaining, no more of that. Get the divorce papers and start that process.

If you really do it -- stop saying it and *do* it -- she will see you moving on and suddenly realize what she's losing and ask you to try again, or she won't. If she won't, you know in your heart of hearts you only have one choice. I can see that you have become aware of that, too.

I know you want to soak up whatever time you have with her, and that feels better to you right now than watching her float away. But as you're going right now, you're not helping yourself get what you want. You're actually hurting your chances.

Although, as I read your last post, maybe that's really not what you want anymore. And that's totally ok.

Maybe this really is what NC is supposed to be like now. Maybe I'll actually do it right. LOL No more puppy dogs. No more PMD. Even a tiny tiny bit of relief.

You're going to feel great eventually. It's really true.

[This message edited by Okokok at 12:27 PM, June 2nd (Tuesday)]

It also empowers your wife to put all of the blame on you. My wife said and did the same things, and actually I've seen it a million times here. In her mind, you're confirming for her that this affair is just a symptom of a bunch of shit you put her through, and none of it's her fault, and it's all your fault, and she's justified in having a boyfriend and moving forward with him. Her conscience is clean, and it's all on you.

There is literally nothing more empowering to a WW to continue an affair than having everyone convinced--ESPECIALLY her husband--that the affair is her husband's fault. You are giving power to the affair with this taking-on of the blame. Her relationship with this man is now more "legitimate" than ever before.

This, this, this, this!!!! ^^^^^

Accountability cannot be underestimated when we want people to improve their faulty ways. She needs accountability in her life to be able to become a better person. Please understand how important it is and stop interfering in her learning.

This. Is. On. Her.

Geek,

It’s been really hard to watch you go through this and continue to set yourself for more and more pain. You’ve been doing a very sad pick me dance. Finally, I think you’re starting to move. You may have had a number of issues in the M, but you did not cheat. Your WW did and now she is trying to shift her blatantly poor choices onto you – it’s all your fault she cheated.

You know that as of now, your WW is not going to leave her AP. Instead, she’s going to continue to plead she needs time to decide while she continues to fuck him and twists the knife even deeper into you. Softly, do you really think she would be attracted to someone that would just continue to put up with that kind of treatment? Hell no.

If I were you, I would sit her down and tell her in no uncertain terms that you know you have a lot of work to do and are willing to do it. She on the other hand has no integrity at all. If she was so unhappy, she could have asked you to go to counseling or decided to D. But no, she decided to cheat and blame you. The sooner you start to tell her the truth, the sooner you’ll be out of limbo. And, who knows, when you stand up for yourself she may even see something in you that she remembers and actually likes. Tell her the truth and don’t pull any punches. She is the one that cheated, not you.

Man up and tell her to stop immediately or D that is the only option. And she must go NC with you on the line also.. Do not play the pick me dance. She will not respect you ever again. Please listen