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Do the unfaithful suffer?

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HowCouldSheDoIt ( member #78431) posted at 4:23 PM on Tuesday, January 25th, 2022

It's interesting to me with threads like this (and all threads really) how little input there hardly ever is from a WS, fWS, preWS or whateverWS.

I don't think it is that unusual really; this is anecdotal but I think it is few WS that would have any interest in the viewpoint of a BS. So they wouldn't be on this site, and they wouldn't see this post.

Me: BH Mid 50'sHer: WW Mid 50'sD-Day Nov 2020Married 21 years before D-Day3 childrenSeparated and going through a very amicable divorce

posts: 314   ·   registered: Mar. 3rd, 2021
id 8711719
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DaddyDom ( member #56960) posted at 4:27 PM on Tuesday, January 25th, 2022

I hope you don't mind hearing from a WS on this. My wife answered earlier, however I'd like to add my own perspective.

Contrary to what some may think, cheaters don't typically "come out of left field" even though it usually feels that way to the BS. No one wakes up one day and thinks, "Gosh, I'm bored. What to do? I know, how about I destroy my marriage, my family and the lives of everyone around me by having an affair! That might be tons of fun!" It doesn't work that way. Cheaters are "born" long before an affair occurs. In order to have an affair in the first place, certain conditions must exist in a person's life. That person must have poor or missing dignity, self-respect and self-love. They must have poor or missing boundaries. They have unhealthy relationship skills. They often lack the ability to "self-soothe" and have an unhealthy dependency on others to make them feel good about themselves. Many of them experienced trauma in their youth and lacked the support and skills needed to deal with the loss and pain of trauma in a healthy way, so they learn instead to "artificially self-heal" by avoiding talking about pain and replacing it with things that make them feel special in some way. I could go on and on, my point however is that most cheaters were badly broken and missing critical tools for managing life long before the infidelity occurred, and that kind of life experience doesn't come naturally. It falls under the "hurt people hurt people" category. Sadly, in my personal experience so far, most cheaters have no idea they are even capable of cheating until something happens and they find themselves unable to cope. They almost never understand this about themselves until it is too late. Cheaters are typically "suffering" from lack of self-love and healthy boundaries in the first place, which is how affairs begin. They are seeking out ways to make themselves feel better, but lack the tools to do so in a healthy way.

During the affair, the WS lives a double life. That double life includes constant and unending stress and worry. Lies have to be told, have to be consistent, have to be believable. Affairs are built on stealth and secret, and so there is a constant need to hide, cover-up, obfuscate and otherwise protect the affair from coming to light, and that takes a ton of work with a ton of risk. WS's are constantly looking over their shoulder in case someone they know sees them, in case someone comes home early, in case clues are left behind by accident, and so on. None of this falls under the phrase, "They had their fun". It's not fun. It's hell. For many WS's, there is a duality, this knowledge that what they are doing is wrong and hurtful to themselves and to others, but like a druggie, they can't stop themselves, because the lack of their "fix" causes their minds to think in ways that make no sense to those around them. Why would a mother choose to leave her kids and family behind and go live in an abandoned building and shoot herself full of heroin while laying in a pool of her own piss? Not because it's fun. It's because she's so damn broken that she can't function like a normal human being anymore. Infidelity feels a lot like this, it just lacks the ugly imagery of addiction and is portrayed on TV as something really sexy instead. Infidelity is a disgusting business. WS's suffer through the affair the same way a heroin addict suffers in their life, because both share the same mentality. They hate themselves and lack the tools to face the reality they need to face in order to heal. So they go down the rabbit hole instead. (Not making excuses or justifications here, just explaining the process as best I can so you can understand the thinking to some degree).

After the affair is discovered, the WS's world is flipped upside down and falls apart. In fact, aside from actual guilt, most of the outcomes for the BS and the WS are very similar. Both lost their marriage. Both are experienceing truama from the discovery of the affair and the fallout afterward. Both have to deal with the after affects on the children, family, community, work, etc. Both live in a daily hell where their lives suck and they just want to stop the pain. Both need IC, both need MC, both don't know how to talk to each other or how to stop hurting. But the WS actually has one extra thing to deal with that the BS does not - guilt. The BS has a million things to hurt over, but the one thing they don't have to accept or overcome is the knowledge that they caused this mess to begin with. The WS holds the blame, the shame, the guilt, the ultimate burden of not only their own suffering, but the suffering of those around them. They lit the match that set off the bomb and destroyed everything. And yes, of course, they brought it on themselves, and they deserve whatever consequences that come from it, so often, we brush aside WS suffering because, "Who cares, they shoulda thought of that before they..." kind of thinking comes in. And while that is all true, it doesn't mean the WS isn't suffering from it.

And then comes the long-term after effects. This is where I am now, at the start of year 6. I've managed to pull my head out of my ass, rebuild my dignity, rebuild my integrity, and have spent thousands of hours in IC learning to address and fix all those broken things in my life. I'm back to feeling like a human being again, but with that, comes the knowledge that what I did, still remains, and will always remain, no matter how much growth or healing occurs. My kids are all struggling with relationships because they watched me degrade myself and them, because I abused them emotionally by having an affair in the first place, because I marginalized and demeaned their mother, because I disregarded them and betrayed them in the same way that I did my wife. They now lack a healthy model of how a marriage should work, and how a parent/child relationship should work, and I can see those long terms effects in all of them as they struggle with relationships now. My wife still jumps when I touch her sometimes, and she still carries the burden of remembering every single horrible thing I did and said to her during the affair. She can never live a life in which she was not tossed aside by her spouse and disregarded completely. I suffer because the people I love the most in this world are the people I decimated. They never did anything but love me, support me, protect me, appreciate me. I repaid them in betrayal and worse. I repaid them in indifference. No matter how much I love them, they will always have the picture of me in their minds, as I disregarded them and shoved my affair in their faces as if they were total strangers to me.

The pain I carry now is in my soul. All I ever wanted from life was to be happy, to be the best father and husband I could be, and to give my wife the kids the love and attention that my own family never gave me. And for a long time, I had all that. But my past became my present, and regardless of what I wanted or intended in my life, what all of us are left with is what is. I bear the burden and responsibility of all the damage and pain that I've inflicted on my innocent loved ones. Every day, I have to wake up and struggle to find some reason to put my own shame and guilt aside, and forgive myself enough to at least function, because I need to be there for them. I need to be a better person than I was, and show my kids and wife how someone who loves and respects both myself and them, moves forward after the impossible happens. I need to make good on my promises and responsibilities the best I can because they, and I, deserve that much. But there will never again be a day in my life where I can think of myself as someone who never hurt others. I can love myself but I will always be disappointed and disgusted by what I did.

So yeah. The WS can suffer, and should suffer. Many of them instead choose to stay in "la la land" in order to hide from the accountability and pain, but that doesn't mean they aren't suffering, it just means they are so overwhelmed by their own pain (and lack the ability/tools to work through that) that they can't find a way to move past themselves. Their pain becomes their new "normal" instead. and they'd rather face the devil they know than to face the pain of their truths. Some people fall into a hole and learn to crawl out. Other fall in and stay there until they die.

I'm not sure if this helped to answer your question at all? My point of view is that no one escapes infidelity unscathed.

Me: WS
BS: ISurvivedSoFar
D-Day Nov '16
Status: Reconciling
"I am floored by the amount of grace and love she has shown me in choosing to stay and fight for our marriage. I took everything from her, and yet she chose to forgive me."

posts: 1447   ·   registered: Jan. 18th, 2017
id 8711720
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sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 4:39 PM on Tuesday, January 25th, 2022

** posting as a member **

This forum is not friendly to WSes, so I'm not surprised at not seeing many WS posts.

Years ago, I encouraged an fWS who was really walking the healing walk to post here. She got clobbered. I felt as if that was my fault.

When my W joined, our ground rules were to avoid going into each other's threads and to avoid reading each other's posts. The easiest way to do that was for her to stay in the WS forum.

If you want to hear from WSes, there's the thread in ICR on BS questions for WSes.

Here's another question: If a WS says that she/he/non-binary/prefer not to answer suffer, will you believe the answer? If you disbelieve what all WSes say, that may be a valid choice, but why ask if you won't believe the answer?

DaddyDom posted as I was drafting this. smile

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
d-day - 12/22/2010 Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 32001   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
id 8711723
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MrsWalloped ( member #62313) posted at 4:47 PM on Tuesday, January 25th, 2022

It's interesting to me with threads like this (and all threads really) how little input there hardly ever is from a WS, fWS, preWS or whateverWS.

This thread is ALL about the WS, yet we have nary a word from one. At least one who cheated first. Could this lack of input here be "indicative of a a selfish/still wayward mindset"? Or not wanting to trigger someone maybe?


Not really. It’s just that anything I would say could simply be discounted as me being self serving and dishonest. As someone said earlier, what else am I going to say? Everything is peachy keen, la-la-la? Still, you asked for WS input.

In my case a lot of what has been already said is my actual experience. There is no pain like a BS’s pain. And as much as my BH has described his feelings and thoughts to me, I am not him and I cannot truly feel what he felt. So the suffering is not comparable at all.

But I suffered and to some degree still suffer. (Okay, this should be said upfront, I am NOT playing the victim here or looking for any kind of sympathy. I am just offering a WS’s POV. That’s all.)

There are two parts to a WS’s suffering. One is the consequences of what they did, and knowing they have no one to blame but themselves. The other is the looking in the mirror part, and understanding that you aren’t who you thought you were, or in my case, my actions were proof that I was who I always believed myself to be but pretended otherwise. A horrible person.

For a long time my BH was a shell of who he really was. He went through different stages of pain. He was angry, indifferent, hollow, traumatized, zombie-like. If you love someone and care about them, then to see them go through that is heart wrenching. And then to know that they are that way because of you is horrible. My BH would yell and curse at me, look at me with such disgust and he wouldn’t touch me for months. And it was my fault that he was like that. You lose the intimacy, the connection, the looks, small touches, reassuring smiles. They’re gone. Your family is destroyed. You’ve been with your BH for over 25 years and you threw it all away for some external validation and a power trip? Your kids hate you and rightfully blame you for totally messing up the family. They’re a mess and you have them in therapy just so they can survive and be healthy and you caused that. And you just suck it up and keep going on, trying to keep the family together and you cannot share how you feel with anyone that really matters because the one person you would normally turn to is in so much pain that you caused and that’s why you’re feeling this way.

Then, you are in IC and you start learning about yourself and you have to come to grips with who you are as a person. You were Mrs. Perfect because you didn’t want anyone to see discover the truth, that you were a horrible person who wasn’t good at anything. Well, now they know and you proved it to yourself because only a truly evil and horrible person could or would do this to the people she says she loves. Without exaggeration I would gladly give my life for my children, yet here I hurt them so badly. What kind of mother does that? How do you reconcile your view that you’re a good mother yet you did this to your children? Well, obviously you’re not a good mother and never have been. And the same questions obviously apply regarding your husband. How can you do that to someone you say you love? The shame spiral is real and toxic shame can be debilitating.

I’m not going to go into the whole therapy piece where you peel away layer after layer and unravel who you are down to your bones. But in the end you are laid bare. There is no hiding from yourself and you can see the ugliness. If you have a good IC and love and support at home, you can see the good and the beauty too, but not always.

And even if you R and your family stays together, something is lost. You stole from your BH and from your family and that connection, the time, the part of you that belonged to them has been torn apart. You are not the one with integrity. You are not the mama bear who would give everything for her family. You gave up that title when you slept with the OM. The A will always be a part of your and your family’s history. All that pain and hurt and anguish. All those wasted years. The lifelong ramifications. You carry that because it’s all because of you and your selfishness. Even if you are in R and even if along with the most precious gift anyone has ever given you, you’ve somehow managed to keep your family together, you still carry that knowledge and that burden.

Is it suffering like a BS? No. Nothing like that at all. The BS’s pain is tremendous. But at the same time my BH has told me he’d never in a million years want to trade places with me. So it is a different kind of suffering. I wouldn’t wish either type on anyone.

I hope that helps.

Me: WW 47
My BH: Walloped 48
A: 3/15 - 8/15 (2 month EA, turned into 3 month PA)
DDay: 8/3/15
In R

posts: 769   ·   registered: Jan. 17th, 2018
id 8711724
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 DailyGratitude (original poster member #79494) posted at 4:48 PM on Tuesday, January 25th, 2022

DaddyDom:

Wow I don’t know what to say…. But thank you, thank you, thank you for your thought provoking, honest, and incredibly well written response. I didn’t want your response to end. I just wanted to keep reading. You shared a wealth of insight and information.

Cheaters are "born" long before an affair occurs.

Was just profound. It is true in my UH case.
So thank you so much for taking the time to give us a glimpse into the mind of a WS. I found it to be incredibly helpful. I know I will be coming back to read your response over and over.

Me: BW mid 50’sHim: WH late 50’sMarrried 25 yearsDday: EA 2002 PA 9/2021Divorce 10/2021 (per wh’s request) WH left to be with AP

posts: 314   ·   registered: Oct. 17th, 2021   ·   location: Connecticut
id 8711725
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Butforthegrace ( member #63264) posted at 4:58 PM on Tuesday, January 25th, 2022

Daddy Dom, a very interesting and thought-provoking response, seconded by Mrs. W.

I would offer two anecdotes that parallel this.

1. A couple of decades ago I had occasion to cross paths with a famous individual under unfortunate circumstances. He was in the throes of deep heroine addiction, down-and-out, living in a flophouse on skid row. I was a guy in a suit evicting him. It took me a while to recognize that the wraith before me was the same man as the celebrity one can see in photos. He had been at the top of the world. Fame, fortune, success, but nonetheless chose a path that led to this. It was then that I realized that people who abuse drugs aren't going to Hell. They're already in Hell. They abuse drugs to numb themselves to the personal Hell that has become their reality.

2. After I was dumped by my cheater, I was a broken shell of a man for some time. Shattered self esteem. I found a path that involved promiscuous casual sex with a lot of partners. Subconsciously, without realizing it, my compass was leading me to other broken people who were also suffering crises of self esteem. Broken people find each other. If you're not concerned about dignity, casual sex is pretty easy to come by, even for an average-looking dude. In many ways, I think my lifestyle during that period was "affair-like". I engaged in low-key shitty behavior like future faking, falsehood by omission, allowing partners to believe I was more committed than I actually was, etc. Tangled webs. I was seeking external validation to assuage my feelings of low self-worth. Eventually I learned that you can't replace low self-worth with external validation so I left that life.

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 5:08 PM, Tuesday, January 25th]

"The wicked man flees when no one chases."

posts: 4184   ·   registered: Mar. 31st, 2018   ·   location: Midwest
id 8711726
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 DailyGratitude (original poster member #79494) posted at 6:52 PM on Tuesday, January 25th, 2022

Mrs.W
Thank you also for your honest response. I can feel your pain. Thank you for letting us see the vulnerable side of you.
For me, hearing from WS is very very helpful. So thank you to all WS who have responded. Your stories help me heal.

Me: BW mid 50’sHim: WH late 50’sMarrried 25 yearsDday: EA 2002 PA 9/2021Divorce 10/2021 (per wh’s request) WH left to be with AP

posts: 314   ·   registered: Oct. 17th, 2021   ·   location: Connecticut
id 8711745
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cheatstroke ( member #67708) posted at 8:27 PM on Tuesday, January 25th, 2022

Thank you also MrsW and DaddyDom. Very insightful and appreciated.

posts: 190   ·   registered: Nov. 1st, 2018
id 8711762
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HeartFullOfHoles ( member #42874) posted at 10:06 PM on Tuesday, January 25th, 2022

It's refreshing to experience a WS who is not trapped in a DARVO cycle. I expect my WW will never get it and to be honest that kind of brokenness has to have long term consequences. At this point in time I really don't care what happens in her life. I'm focusing on me and my life.

BH - Tried to R for too long, now happily divorced
D-Day 4/28-29/2012 (both 48 at the time)
Two adult daughters

posts: 782   ·   registered: Mar. 24th, 2014
id 8711783
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DaddyDom ( member #56960) posted at 2:04 PM on Wednesday, January 26th, 2022

It's interesting to me with threads like this (and all threads really) how little input there hardly ever is from a WS, fWS, preWS or whateverWS.


This forum is not friendly to WSes, so I'm not surprised at not seeing many WS posts.

I noticed this thread almost as soon as it was posted and wanted to respond. The reason I (I can only speak for myself here) don't tend to get involved in "General" discussions is because:

1) To me, General seems like the next, natural stepping stone from JFO. A lot of BS's here are dealing with very fresh and/or ongoing pain due to their WS, and all the lies and manipulation and BS that their spouse is currently putting them through. It just seems to me that having a WS come in and offer opinions could be very "triggery" for some of them, no matter how well-intentioned, and I want to respect their pain and not add to their stress. In other words, for many of the same reasons that JFO is BS only in the first place.

2) The advice offered on this site sometimes needs to be considered/tempered with the reality of where people are at in their post-DD journey. Even gentle, supportive advice, such as, "The affair was not about you, it was about your WS" might feel dismissive or manipulative to someone whose life and heart were just run through a wood-chipper by a WS. My experience is that, early on, it's easier for new BS's to trust other BS's when it comes to hearing advice. General seems like the right environment for that.

3) Similar to the reasons above, I also don't want to encourage "newly minted" WS's to jump in here with advice either. Just seems like throwing a match into a gasoline factory.

Sorry for the T/J, it was just a good point to bring up. :)

Me: WS
BS: ISurvivedSoFar
D-Day Nov '16
Status: Reconciling
"I am floored by the amount of grace and love she has shown me in choosing to stay and fight for our marriage. I took everything from her, and yet she chose to forgive me."

posts: 1447   ·   registered: Jan. 18th, 2017
id 8711873
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