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Too much Drama , time for a court date to settle custody . Period.Where the hell is your lawyer or does each visit put more money in their pocket .

Your WW will play this game as long as you allow it . Think of her as some stranger with your kids. Fight for your children . Pick them up and bring them home she doesn't allow it call the police with agreement in hand and keep on doing it . You are allowing her to keep you from your boys .

How are you, AAS? How was your weekend? Any developments?

Hope you are well.

Hi Abb,

I had a reconfirmation from CSTBXWW's solicitor stating that unless I sign her undertaking I will not see the children again. I have prepared a signed version but covered it with words like duress and reluctance and blackmail. This letter makes her look really bad in the eyes of a judge.

I also got another letter from her stating that she has applied for a court decision to settle finances. This is not a problem for me but does allow her to procrastinate for another 6 months. She claims that negotiation about finances has broken down and I made it clear in my response that no negotiation has ever taken place. I stated that it should be entered into before it can be accused of failing.

For someone who says that she wants the divorce over and done with as soon as possible she sure has a funny way of showing it.

The school mums have said that they would jump to my defence on Friday in the event that she turns up to assert her owenership of the children!

Someone, somewhere is telling her that she is right to do this, should keep fighting and endorsing her behaviour. Is it her own delusion, her POS, her mum or her solicitor?

I don’t get it...

The scenario you describe and suggestions from your solicitor and her solicitor run contrary to my knowledge of UK family law and everything I read about it.

I don’t get all the drama. There is a system in place to deal with these issues. You are not the first person dealing with custody issues and your WW actions are not unique. This can be stopped and there are processes and procedures to end this all.

First of all: In the UK it’s not the parents “rights” that are paramount in custody disputes. The law views the child’s rights to have access to BOTH parents and the decision is based on the child’s benefit and NOT the parents. The ideal solution is joint custody with a reasonable and sensible agreement on prime residence, visitation and so on.

Second: The Court expects and wants parents to have hammered out this agreement BEFORE the court date. The role of the judge is simply to assess that both parties are in agreement and that the child’s rights are protected. In fact a judge will HEAVILY frown on a frivolous, non-grounded or unfair demand because they basically waste court time, the time of social workers and others that are then called on to assess the situation.

Third: Without an agreement the basis is shared custody. So right now YOU have the absolute same legal right to have access to your children as she does. Any breach from that that is not consented to is simply put breaking the child’s right to access to both parents and should be dealt with by the police.

Fourth: If you are not a drunk, drug-user, a registered sex offender, have a recent criminal record, doing time in jail, abusive, have mental issues or a Manchester United fan (or any combination of those) then neither your ex, a judge or her solicitor can limit your children’s right to have access to you.

Fifth: I take it you are in the family home. Therefore I take it your kid’s LEGAL residence is there. She can’t change that without your approval. So either it’s still there or she changed the residence without your approval – a clear break in the law and something you can and should have reversed.

I don’t know what your solicitors are suggesting you do but I would be seriously surprised if it’s ANYTHNG other than this:

Do not sign ANYTHING. Not even under duress.

Reply with as little as you can if at all when she sends these mails.

Make sure the children’s legal residence is the family home. If not then discover how and when that changed and counter it.

Make a reasonable formal offer on shared custody.

Any arrangement in place today: STICK TO IT. Don’t be 20 minutes late, switch dates, phone the kids when they are with her and so on. Get a plan in place and STICK TO IT.

Have your attorney send a one-time letter stating that if your legal rights and your children’s legal rights to have mutual reasonable access is hindered you will take direct legal actions that might include formal charges and the correct authorities (this includes having the police help you get the kids).

[Get your solicitor’s input on this but I would also suggest you add a clause stating that if your WW solicitors keep sending such provocative letters that contain demands that impede your children’s rights to access to their father you retain the right to notify the correct authorities and/or professional ethics board]

I’m quite certain I’ve suggested this before: In the UK there is a very active and vocal father’s rights movement. Go online and find one with a help-line. You NEED local support from a group like us here on SI that has been there and worn out the t-shirt.

AAS,

Where is YOUR solicitor in all this??? What does he/she advise? This is a very serious matter and he/she should be in close contact with your WW's solicitor.

[This message edited by Abbondad at 11:57 AM, September 23rd (Monday)]

I've gone through Bigger's post word by word and its the very essence of commonsense and good responsible advice. Please consider taking it.

You have been on the defensive for too long; lying curled up on the floor while your wife sticks the boot in. [Good old English phrase!].

I particularly agree with the advice to use the police if necessary to take possession of your children. You have been consistently afraid of offending your abusive wife; your rather mild, non-confrontational personality will not serve you well when faced with your rottweiller wife.

Wow, this bothers me on so many levels. When you said:

she has managed to convince her family that she wasn't happy and she saw an opportunity for happiness and took it

Any "family" or persons of ANY intelligence knows that you DON'T start a new relationship until the old one is finished. Secondly, there are small children involved, what type of woman takes her children from their home AND their father and acts like that? I've heard of selfishness, but this is damn right illegal. Family courts will NOT like this, her family must think she's lost her mind. I don't CARE what the circumstances were, she has NO right to do this to you. Those are YOUR kids too and this infuriates me when a woman's sex drive is more important than the needs of her children.

Even if you could reconcile, this is going to be a MAJOR issue that will most likely take years to work through. If you are truly in-love with her and want to try to get her back, then being a woman, this is what I suggest. Be a perfect gentlemen, don't lose your temper, actually act like you don't give one bit about her, look at her like you see her much differently now (that will bug her.) Get those children back! Courts don't like the Jack A** that stole your wife in with your kids. Don't be angry with your wife in front of your kids no matter what. Just reassure them that you love them, you will ALWAYS be there for them and that you love mommy.

Good luck to you!

I've read this thread on and off for some time but have never posted. But this same issue is bothering me as it appears to bother Bigger. He is absolutely spot on.

Your ex has absolutely NO RIGHT to unilaterally determine custody or to coerce you into make a decision that is not in your best interest. If she breaks the current custody agreement in any way I would absolutely show up at her house - with the police - and have YOUR child brought out.

Why would you sign an agreement that undermines your right to your children? Absolutely, positively... NO!

In the meantime, YOU do what YOU are supposed to do - return the kids per the agreement, pick them up as usual - do not do anything that violates it.

Bigger is correct - NO ONE can limit your access to your children except for you (unless, of course, you're a MU fan) - so why allow her to take advantage??

Stand up for yourself and put your shithead of an ex wife in her place. Your kids will appreciate that their Dad stopped taking shit from her.

Wow, this bothers me on so many levels. When you said:

she has managed to convince her family that she wasn't happy and she saw an opportunity for happiness and took it

Any "family" or persons of ANY intelligence knows that you DON'T start a new relationship until the old one is finished. Secondly, there are small children involved, what type of woman takes her children from their home AND their father and acts like that? I've heard of selfishness, but this is damn right illegal. Family courts will NOT like this, her family must think she's lost her mind. I don't CARE what the circumstances were, she has NO right to do this to you. Those are YOUR kids too and this infuriates me when a woman's sex drive is more important than the needs of her children.

Even if you could reconcile, this is going to be a MAJOR issue that will most likely take years to work through. If you are truly in-love with her and want to try to get her back, then being a woman, this is what I suggest. Be a perfect gentlemen, don't lose your temper, actually act like you don't give one bit about her, look at her like you see her much differently now (that will bug her.) Get those children back! Courts don't like the Jack A** that stole your wife in with your kids. Don't be angry with your wife in front of your kids no matter what. Just reassure them that you love them, you will ALWAYS be there for them and that you love mommy.

Good luck to you!

I do appreciate all of your posts. You all make valid points and some of you are quite invested in this judging by the amount of time and emotion you've put into your posts. Thank you.

UK law does protect me ONCE it has gone to court. Until then we are expected to act like mature adults which only one of us is doing.

I take the point about the rights of the children. I will look into that.

The police won't get involved until a court order is broken or there is a breach of the peace.

Ww is setting herself up for a big fall and I'm going to take full advantage of her blackmailing me with the letter.

The children's main residence is irrelevant.

It may seem as if I'm being walked all over and being submissive but this is not actually the case. She may think she holds all the cards but she doesn't. If you knew me you would be assured that I am totally aware of my situation and playing the long game.

I am fighting for my children and home. Everything else is noise.

I am a strong character and I know that ww's life is shit and not working out. She has no friends and is forced to be allies with my twisted sister. Ww screws, lives and works with her boss. A nasty, manipulative man that I know her dad despises. She is having to lie about me in order to keep her parents talking to her.

I have a pretty girlfriend who is gentle, kind and able to express emotion. All my friends are proud of me and so are my children. Eventually they will choose to live with me and ww won't be able to do anything about it.

I'm in control because I'm calm, methodical, right, honest and can live my life with integrity.

Watch this space, friends

[This message edited by allatsea at 6:06 PM, September 23rd (Monday)]

Way to go AAS!

Glad to hear it, AAS. Sounds like you've got your emotions under control in a very distressing situation.

I'm impressed by your attitude. May you realize all of your goals and you can count on our continued support.

As to our emotional investment; you're right; we all want to see your poisonous wife squashed.

It sounds like you are in an emotionally good spot today, AAS.

But there is still one question:

The police won't get involved until a court order is broken or there is a breach of the peace.

If that is the case, then why did the police go to your house the day you didn't get your children to her on time?

Can't you do the same thing when she refuses to let them come to you at all? All the documentation is on your side.

HBH

They came to the house because WW told them I had failed to return the children at the agreed time. She failed to mention that there was no court order or that her idea of 'agreed' was actually her stipulating.

Once the Police realised they left.

[This message edited by allatsea at 2:12 AM, September 24th (Tuesday)]

To those of you who wanted to know the exact legal position, this is my solicitor's reply:

"1. The children do not have a legal “right” to see both parents. The law recognises the concept of parental responsibility. Whilst the children are minors the court have a duty to consider issues regarding children under s.1 Children Act as in accordance with what is in “their best interest”. The court will normally decide that it is in the children’s best interest to see both parents (but not always of course). Sometimes if a parent is abusive or has a serious drug habit etc the court will decide that it is not in the child’s interest to see that particular parent.

The police do not interpret the law but simply enforce it in certain circumstances and they are of course mainly concerned with criminal law, not civil law. They normally do not consider it their concern or legal responsibility to enforce civil law. They leave this to the courts.

2. The children’s place of residence was the former matrimonial home. However, the court do not recognise a property as a “residence”. They only recognise the fact that the children need a suitable roof over their head. Often the court will want the children to remain as settled as possible.

Your wife has not really changed the children’s place of residence as such. She has instead sought to say that the children “reside” with her. A residence order attaches to a person and not to a place. You have put in an application to the court to make it clear that you wish to have a joint residence order. The court will consider this and hopefully will agree that a joint residence order is appropriate.

I note that your wife is saying untrue things about you and you are concerned about the impact of this in general and also in relation to the court proceedings. If she alleges this in the court proceedings and she will not drop the allegations then she will have to face a fact finding hearing. This will be a hearing to determine whether the allegations are true or not. She will have to set out precise details of her allegations and you give a response. You are then both cross-examined and the court will decide as a matter of fact for the purpose of the children proceedings whether or not she is believed or not. If she is not believed then this is considered a “dead” issue and she is not allowed to raise it again. "

I hope this clarifies a few things for you guys (and me)

[This message edited by allatsea at 6:03 AM, September 24th (Tuesday)]

Wow AllAtSea

The battle continues.

What a monster your Ex has become.

Do not give up or give in.

In the end there is no doubt in my mind that you will persevere and your boys will be the happiest for your efforts.

HM

Ok AAS,

I finally have to reply. I have been following your posts & almost responded way back when you mentioned that you had a very pleasant afternoon with a date. Some replied back to be careful starting any relationship with a new person & all that "stuff" while I was personally hoping your "pleasant afternoon" meant you shagged the hell out of each other.

Anyway...not asking for details about any of that but was wondering how your WW feels about you having a GF now? I just can't see her liking it at all since it shows you are moving on.

I also hope you keep in contact with your in-laws so she can't keep lying to them, as you said?!?!

One other thought for you....even if you don't get to see your boys regularly until the divorce, you know they will continúe nagging WS & OM that they "miss daddy", "want to see daddy", "why can't we see daddy", "when can we see daddy again", etc etc. So her making that decisión can easily backfire on her & cause tensión between them. So you just make sure you still show at school & when they ask you this....tell them to bug mommy & OM about it ALL the time!!

My thoughts & prayers are with you.

The letter has been signed and sent. I await to see if she finds another excuse.

This is my letter verbatim (but with names and addresses changed to protect the innocent and also the guilty:

"I am disappointed to hear that your client is prepared to act in an aggressive and unreasonable manner by turning up at the school on the 27th September, a weekend that is recognised by both parties as my weekend for contact. This will undoubtedly result in confrontation at the school gates in front of teachers, parents and our children. I am not prepared to endure a repeat occurrence of the insults, abuse and threats by your client and her affair partner that occurred the last time we met at the school. Further to this, your client’s neglectful assumption that possession of the children is nine-tenths-of-the-law and preventing them being with their father is not a situation I am prepared to tolerate at the children’s expense.

Therefore under considerable duress, I attach a signed letter undertaking to hand over the children to your client on alternate Sundays at 4pm.

After much consideration and reluctance, I am prepared to sign this document to my detriment, in order for the children to spend time with their father. This ultimatum from your client is blackmail and clearly not motivated by the children’s best interests. It is a severe abuse of her self-appointed assertion of sole parent and she is not empowered to behave in this manner. Your client’s rationale for this course of action is unfounded and completely irrelevant, particularly for Wednesday night contact as I am not required to return the children to her care.

What prevents your client unilaterally reducing or dictating revised contact terms next week and blackmailing me to sign another undertaking?

The undertaking letter shall not set any precedent and is not an indication of a relinquishment of parental rights. I can also confirm that an application to court for a residency and contact order has been made and I hope that an expedited decision can be made by the court to overrule this ridiculous undertaking.

I now expect my children to be returned to my care on Wednesday 25th at 5:30pm."

The undertaking letter is very basic and says:

"I, Allatsea of England, UK Undertake to hand over the children to the care of their mother, CSTBXWW of 666 bitch street, Crazy town

every alternate Sunday at 4pm following my weekend contact with them.

CODICIL

This document is signed under duress, does not set any precedent and is not an indication of a relinquishment of parental rights.

This document must be read in conjunction with letter to P&C (lawyer) dated 24th September 2013 ref: xyz."

I reckon she will find another reason why I can't see them.

[This message edited by allatsea at 9:29 AM, September 24th (Tuesday)]

OMG,

You made me laugh. My afternoon was very successful...... She is a very lovely person

To answer your question; I couldn't tell you if CSTBXWW knows about my GF or not. It is possible that the boys have made a reference to Daddy having a new friend but other than that I don't know.

I would like to be in touch with my in laws but they have dropped me in favour of their jackal of a daughter. I miss them dearly but they aren't the in-laws I thought they were. They've closed ranks.

My boys will not be impressed that they aren't seeing me. They've only missed one night with me so far so the nagging won't have got too bad, yet. My boys are continually assured that I want to be with them and love them very much.

At this stage reconciliation is the furthest thing from my mind and so unlikely as to say it's impossible. She would need to have a major emotional breakdown to explain away this behaviour. I could forgive almost anything until she started using the kids against me.

The fact that she has been emotionally involved with this twat for over a year and living with him since March suggests that she is perfectly happy with her new life.