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and then asked if I wanted to talk

The key part to that wounded-husband IMO is her asking whether you WANTED to talk to her. Not that she WANTED to talk to you. By engaging her in this way, you are telling her that you WANT to talk to her. It's a subtle distinction I know and I may just be engaging in transference from my own sitch, but I see it as a controlling mechanism from your WS. She doesn't want to seem as is she wants or needs anything from you, but luuurves the fact that you respond and want to enagage her.

I suggest you try as Bigger recommended DETACH, DETACH, DETACH. Easier said than done I know, but you have to start somewhere.

Sending you strength.

Doh! I fell right into that Her message ended "hopefully you do want to talk in a bit...." but you are right...she hasn't said she wants to talk to me.

Now I feel like a fool...

Hey wounded----a couple of things---you can go down to the closest courthouse, and get the Divorce packet yourself----It should be easy enuff to do on your own, and you only need to pay the filing fee---also you can probably serve her by mail----At least you can in calif.

As to her lover, and her lover's boss at school

If the school is a public institution that means taxpayers as yourself are paying the salaries, of these prof's.---who are also homewreckers, and probably having sex with their students, who are still single

Bottom line it is a morals situation, and you need to go to the president of the school, and tell him he either do something about the cheating being done by his prof's, or you will go to your state legislature's, and to the newpaper, and tv----the last thing a public institution wants is publicity that its prof's are cheating----and who knows how much time that is spose to be devoted to teaching and research is being spent on sex, and homewrecking----play your cards and play them hard

I see it as a controlling mechanism from your WS. She doesn't want to seem as is she wants or needs anything from you, but luuurves the fact that you respond and want to enagage her.

Ok, now, WW does have low self-esteem. But why does she want me to engage her? She told me several days ago that despite knowing this guy for only 5 months, she wants to be with him, not me. Why keep manipulating me? What does she want from me? To be 'chased'? WTF for?

She says she wants to talk, but never answers the questions I ask (e.g., when are you home, what is your schedule, apartment subsidy).

Because there is a brokeness in WSs. They fill that brokeness w/ the OP. Just as an alcoholic dulls their pain w/ drinking.

When the BS pulls away, many times the WS will try to pull them back b/c the pain starts to come in there again. They are not getting their ego fed, their guilt distracted...whatever they are using both you and the OP for.

Think of it as a person with a broken leg, trying to maintain balance. They can't do it on their own, so they get a set of crutches. Yes, one can work on the side of the broken leg but it's not as easy, so they need two. Once the OP or the BS pulls their support out, the WS is off balance. They try to pull that person back in. If that person doesn't oblige then they tend to either accept a precarious balance or focus on healing and balancing on their own. The precarious balance happens if the OP remains or if the BS remains yet they don't actively work towards healing. The healthy balance can happen w/ or w/out the BS as long as the WS is actually focusing on fixing that broken part.

[This message edited by Holly-Isis at 9:16 AM, August 28th (Saturday)]

There is only one way to really get her attention, expose them formally, file. I promise you she will want to talk to you when she see's that you are leaving for real. Have you told the family?

Wounded,

I'm assuming that the BS fallout has caused you to forget out the WS side, to be fair your WW is so deep in the fog she has completely lost site of the BS side, right and wrong everything. She's living in her own little fantasy world. The fantasy of the A causes alot of bravado. That's why her email's to OM say she'll go it alone. She means it, until she gets confronted with reality, such as a hacked email or a strong 180. I imagine that her attempts to want to her from you, are a need to either place the blame back on you so in her mind she's still a good person. Or she wants to make sure that you don't think she's a bad person, so that in her mind she's still a good person. Either way right now she's fight her morals and grasping at straws so she can reconcile in her mind that she's not so bad for doing all this.

If you want to play true hardball, then contact the University President. Of course you won't get to speak to him right away, but say that you would like an in person meeting or a phone conference with him. Ask when do you expect him to be able to return your call or when a secretary will contact you to set something up. Give the university a chance, use honey at first. Then, if you hear nothing back after the expected contact date, call his office again. Say that you have some serious concerns about the proffesor conduct in the university. Say that you would like a meeting in person and on the phone again. Say this is the second time, if you hear nothing you may go to local paper or even the school paper with your evidence. If WS's prof is emailing from his school acount you should be golden and that is a nail in the coffin. Of course, before you take anything to the paper or threaten to take it to the paper, you'll want to take this to some form of legal aid. I'd hate for this advice to considered extortion or set you up for libel.

She told me several days ago that despite knowing this guy for only 5 months, she wants to be with him, not me

Tell her you know from your own Wywwrd behaviour that she is in the high of the limerant honeymoon period, and that you also know from your own experience that WSs are deceiving themselves and others, and ask her if she is happy to risk being the future BS of this Prof when history repeats itself and he decides to trade your wife in for his next younger model?

Funny thing...I sent her a message the other day, repeating my request that she and OM perhaps subsidise an apartment for me so I can get the hell out of here ASAP. I also asked her when she will be home, and what her school/ work schedule will be, so I can avoid seeing her. She has not responded to those requests. She just sent me a message about how she saw something that reminded her of a wonderful time we had, and then asked if I wanted to talk (by that she meant chat) on FB. WTF is up with her?

She expected you to be pleading with her not to separate. Not that she would give up the om if you did. She didn't expect you to detach and move onto divorce quickly. She wanted to keep you on the line until she knew om had left his wife, filed for divorce and it was working out between them.

At this point, it's a waste of time to talk to her. She wants om and wants you on a shelf just in case. Jump off the shelf, file for divorce, find a new place to live and move on.

As for involving the university, I wouldn't. You're two students, no assets to fight over, separate financial accounts. Make a clean break. Don't add more drama, especially when you should be putting all your energy into your dissertation. Finishing your education will give you a bright, happy future, drowning in drama with her won't. It won't bring her back either. She's gone, but as long as you're willing to play her game - she will keep you in her back pocket.

Let her sink or swim with the om without you. If she needs a back up man, let her find someone else to fill that position.

As you know, I hacked her email account last week. I know she is flying out of Whitehorse on the 10th, which means she should be home just a few hours later. Well, it was WW's sister's birthday today, so I attended the party. WW called her sister, and when her sister asked when she would be home, WW said the 12th...one day before our now meaningless 7th anniversary. This is what she did the last two times she saw him. I expected it to happen, yet I feel like I did on d-day. Went for a walk and couldn't stop laughing.

At least this firmed my resolve to get OUT before she comes home.

My man.... There's nothing like saying, "I'm not your backup plan" like moving out.... I did it and it shook the ex to the core...

Repeat this to yourself over and over again as you're packing your shit and moving it... "I'm worth more than a backup plan"... Believe me, you'll be outta there quicker than a army in an ambush...

I found my own little piece of paradise from the ex and it's helped me separate fact from fiction... Believe me, the WS's live and thrive on fiction...

WB

I went through what you did several years ago. The similarities are striking. My WW took up with an older man... A "friend" of ours. I too had a fling. That is, I had an EA that never went to PA years before. I ended that without her finding out about it but I always felt extremely guilty about it.

Anyway, to make a long story short, she was going through the motions... Including MC and IC but it was pretty clear that she had checked out. She couldn't stop seeing him. Couldn't stop lying about it.

When the trust is gone and there is no willingness to own responsibility or do anything to rebuild that trust- I hate to say it, but you are done. Period.

I wish I had found this forum on DDay instead of a year or more after then. There's a lot of good advice being handed out here.

Be glad there are no kids involved. My heart breaks most of all for my kids.

You deserve better. Ask yourself if you can ever feel like you can trust her again. Maybe your situation would play out differently from mine, but I honestly doubt it would from what you have written.

No matter what, you have a hard road ahead. I'm sorry.

However, know this:

There is life after a marital breakup. The sun does shine again, believe me. Eventually. Wishing you strength

Feel free to PM me.

There are even more similarities than I am sharing here.

Ok, now, WW does have low self-esteem. But why does she want me to engage her? She told me several days ago that despite knowing this guy for only 5 months, she wants to be with him, not me. Why keep manipulating me?

Having power over you is a rush for her. It feeds her low self-esteem and makes her feel wanted and desirable. Having two men at her disposal feeds this dynamic.

If you remove yourself from the triangle, she loses her power.

My family knows, but I haven't told hers. I don't know how. I don't know if I should even bother. We kept my affair a relative secret since we were trying to R, but she is so deep in the fog I R is not a possibility here. Am I weak for not telling her family?

She has repeatedly said she wants to spend our anniversary together, even though she expects it to be a sad day. Christ, I'm tired of these mind games...she says she can't let me go, she is my soulmate, blah blah blah, but refuses to go NC with OM. I hate this shit. HATE.IT.

If she won't make a choice, you have two options:

Don't make a choice. Share your WW and live in limbo.

Make a choice. Show her you are no back-up plan. File for S at least.

From there on, you can decide how much you want to make the A a bad place to be. Out the A to the head of the college and let them know the dept. head did nothing. Out the A to her family.

Your WW might get pissed, she might wake up. She might do both. She'll likely blame you for stirring up a hornet's nest but keep in mind- she's the one that put out the welcome mat.

When you knock a fencesitter off the fence you need to be prepared that they might fall towards you...or away from you. Usually BSs aren't ready for the away part until we are tired of sharing and feeling like doormats. Not doing anything though is a guarantee of no change.

Well, In British Columbia, there is no need to file for S. It's a simple as moving out of the house...which is what I will be doing a week tonight, a day before she comes home. I was planning for filing for D, but of all people, my parents suggested I wait a few months. They will support any decsion I make, but think I should cool down and make that call after I'm away from her for a few months. I guess it doesn't hurt to wait...in BC, you can file for divorce without even having a S, so long as you have evidence of an affair...which I do (as well as backup copies).

Back to the packing!

Wounded,

I want to make one suggestion: Cut off all communications and interaction with her if you separate. No messaging, IM, Facebook or dropping off for a cup of coffee. Write her a letter telling her that your greatest wish would be to work at saving the marriage but that’s not possible while she is having an affair. Tell her that you don’t want to interact with her in any way or form while she still sees OM. Tell her you do this because her ongoing affair erodes you love for her and you would rather remember her with love than resentment. Tell her to phone or e-mail if she wants to reconcile but otherwise to leave you completely alone.

Bigger: That's one step beyond what I was planning...and your suggestion is pure gold. Thank-you! I will do just that.

I've just finished packing several boxes, and family is coming over tomorrow to help with some big stuff. And WW just emailed me, wanting to know if I want to talk tonight. I'm going to ignore her.

And I am all smiles right now! I feel soooo good! Woohoo!

Thanks fo being here, all. You've been a great for support and ideas!

Ha! I think the 180 is working. I haven't emailed her in days. Today, she has emailed me twice. Both times it was to tell me she would be on FB tonight if I wanted to chat. Getting no response, she CALLED for the first time in two weeks...and then called again, leaving short messages on the answering machine both times.

Too bad I'm out doing stuff with nobody she would know