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Hi AD,

RYour IC may have stepped out of line with his advice, I do not know, but I do belive that the only way to have a healthy M is to have one where you are willing, and able (financially, emotionally) to walk away when warranted. He is right in that detaching from your WW and your M too her would be a good thing for you. It was when I separated from my W and moved forward with detachment that I was able to be sure I was staying and giving her a chance because I wanted to rather than because I was afraid of the alternative. I learned that I can leave her and the M when she does not protect the M and my feelings.

As to your list:

Are you doing the right thing? Thenon-goddess asks a good question. What would you advise your son or a friend in a similar situation? I would add to that the fact you went to your IC for advice, and that was his advice too.

As for choice, we always have choices. You could rug-sweep, suck it up, and live with your WW and her wayward ways. You could model bad marriage practice to your children. OTOH, as for controlling your WW or causing her to wake up and fly right, you have no choice. You cannot control another. All you can do is make your needs and expectations known, and if they choose to ignore you or only make half attempts you either accept it or move on for a better path. Staying or leaving, which is your path of least regret?

You will feel better eventually if you remove yourself from a toxic relationship. If you stay in a toxic relationship you could eventually feel worse.

Change, different, new can be fearful. Feer is often a sign of where we need to do internal work on ourselves. There is value in leaning into our fears and passing through them as learning experiences as opposed to avoiding them.

Fianlly, what is happiness to you? Who is Abbondad? What steps are you taking and can you take to create happiness and become the person you like? Can you spend more time with friends, or making new friends? Are there hobbies or activities you set aside that you could return to?

I echo what everyone else said about the reassuring question. Just want to add that my STBX moved out this weekend. A little over 2 years ago I got crushed on dday and thought the world would end. This weekend though, I literally danced around my house once I had the keys. Rick Flair would have been jealous of the "WOOOOOOO's" I let out. I still have some road to travel but I am happy and I KNOW I did the right thing.

So yes, it will be okay and you are doing the right thing. Yes, it sucks while it's going on but the payoff as you get closer to the end is worth it. Truly work on detaching and rediscovering things you like to do. I mean really force yourself to go out and have fun. Go to a museum, go out of state on a day trip. Go out drinking with your brother or out to eat. Once you detach things get SOO much easier. All the drama you are dealing with doesn't go away but it's no longer a ROAR more like an annoying buzz in the background that you know you have to deal with but you also know eventually it will be going away. Your STBXWW will come at you with the same stupid shit and you will be able to stare her in the face let her finish and then walk away and not be phased.

If we made it out so can you. Your IC has the right idea as well. I was able to walk away with no regrets. Well one regret, I wish I had done it sooner. Heal yourself and the rest works itself out.

AD How are things going? I always worry that you are struggling when you go quiet.

Hope you are feeling your strength

Wow, Tushnurse, you really know me and my patterns! ;-)

You are correct. I have been struggling and figure I have nothing new to add for now--though I have been lurking and reading (and rereading) everyone's posts. Thanks so much to everyone for maintaining interest in me and taking time with such long and encouraging responses.

I am pretty down. Mediation is next week. The WW's hoovering continues unabated: love bombing me, reminiscing, speaking of us in future terms (let's paint our daughters bedroom, lets get a new puppy for Xmas, what do think of going to Costa Rica....)

It's just surreal. No action from her whatsoever in terms of dumping the OM and committing to us. I assume her words are simply designed to make me shelve the divorce and continue the cake-eating--which is not surprising, since it has worked so many times before.

It also has occurred to me that she is so deluded that she actually believes that after the divorce these things WILL happen (trips, Xmas as a family....).

In any case, this all has made me deeply sad and shocked anew--that she will actually throw her family away for good, and for what? A fantasy. An escape from reality, a reality that she will find herself in, unequipped to deal with without me.

Anyway, enough about her, right? I am trying the best I can. I try to stay out of the house, hang out with some casual friends, prepare for returning to teaching in August.

And of course the kids. They are not doing too well. My daughter has thus far seemed to be faring fine, as opposed to my son, who is wrecked up over our separation and impending divorce. But now (she is six) she is becoming very clingy to me and to her brother.

When she is with me, she wants mommy; when she is with mommy, she asks for me. And she is totally unruly when staying with my wife. And my wife simply cannot handle her without me.

Again, I am doing my very best to be strong with them. I no longer cry in front of them; they are sleeping in their own beds. (Well, my daughter needs me to lie next to her until she falls asleep, then she sneaks into my bed while I am sleeping ;-)

We have a very large house and three dogs, so it's constant work to maintain it alone. My wife always did the laundry, so I tend to break down while doing it, so it usually just piles up.

It is just really tough to be a single dad. I

We will eventually have to sell the house and there are no inexpensive places in their school district. Our kids' world has always been this street, this home, our dream home, with all their friends and their school, which they love. To give this all up is devastating to me, and mind boggling that my wife would choose a fantasy bubble over their children's safe world.

Oh, and she suddenly lost her six figure job and is unemployed. I don't know how this will affect spousal support or CS. I have the sinking feeling she will want to live in the house, whereas before it was a given that I would remain in the house and she would maintain her apartment. There is no way I am moving out.

So everything is (or so it feels) coming down like an avalanche. I know I have to shift my attitude to seeing it as a more positive metaphor, but for now I just can't.

I pay close attention to the posts that have happy endings--not ending in R, but survival and the renewal of life and contentment without one's spouse. But for now it's not resonating. I want to feel anger, but it's not there. I want to feel indifference, but that's nowhere near me at this point.

I am alive, I am functioning, I am being a dad. That's where I am. I guess the good stuff will come later. But it's hard, so hard.

You are doing well AD, She is running through her playbook trying to hit on anything that will allow her to have the upper hand.

Dont let it happen.

Keep strong, keep forging forward. She "lost" her job? Really? Or is she just saying that to get what she wants again. If she did loose her job then it's up to her and no one else for her to find another one. She obviously is a successful professional making the salary you have indicated, so it may take a bit for her to get one. I would recommend cutting her off financially. No funds for her at this time.

If the Laundry is a trigger, it's time for you to make it a family event. My kids started doing their own laundry around your kids age. I went on Mommy strike because one would wear 6-8 outfits a day, and the other would hoard is dirty stuff until he had nothing, and bring it down in a mountain and need it 15 minutes ago. Teach them how to separate, use the machines, and how to fold. This takes some of the burden off of you, and allows them to feel like big kids, if they do a good job they get some $$.

My kids are now 16, and 14 and I can honestly say that I rarely have to do their laundry. They will even help out and do ours during the summer.

Keep loving on your kids, let them know that you are dad's priority, and you are always there for them. If mom doesn't earn their respect she can expect them to be bad, and quite honestly she wants everything handed to her at this point. They are going to give her hell when they are with her, this could really roll your way, she will want them less and less, giving you more time with them, and allowing you to build your bonds, and new family unit.

You can do this, You are doing the right thing, Do Not engage her in any of her fantasy rants. Acknowledge that the last 2 years of how you percieve your marriage is also a fantasy, and that it is gone. Work to how you want the future to look with you and the kids.

((((and strength)))))

The job loss is worrisome to me, too. What on earth happened there? And is her hoovering related to her financial woes? Did she quit her job to avoid child support?

Hope you're protecting your finances from her.

[This message edited by sudra at 10:17 AM, June 25th (Tuesday)]

The WW's hoovering continues unabated: love bombing me, reminiscing, speaking of us in future terms (let's paint our daughters bedroom, lets get a new puppy for Xmas, what do think of going to Costa Rica....)

My STBX did this shit too except I fell for it and ending up in false R for a year before the shit hit the fan again.

It's just surreal. No action from her whatsoever in terms of dumping the OM and committing to us. I assume her words are simply designed to make me shelve the divorce and continue the cake-eating--which is not surprising, since it has worked so many times before.

I keep saying don't pay attention to her words because honestly you can't even begin to understand crazy. What is gogin on inside her head is for her and her alone to figure out. Anytime you engage or listen you get pulled kicking and screaming into the madness with her. She may actually believe the stuff she is saying but as you see OM is still in the picture. It does not add up, it does not compute, so don't even try to figure it out. Until she wants to get completely healthy by herself you will never be safe around her. You can't even help her to get the help. You can only help yourself. When you engage her it fuels her delusion whether she realizes it or not. I got to the point where I finally udnerstood that no matter how much I talked to my STBX, she could never truly comprehend what I was saying. SO I just kept getting hurt until I broke the cycle.

It also has occurred to me that she is so deluded that she actually believes that after the divorce these things WILL happen (trips, Xmas as a family....).

This is likely true. Everything would be just fine if AD would just get back in place and ignore OM on the side. The problem is it's all in the open now so it cant' go back to beign the same. The old M is dead. Heck even the old A for her is dead. It's not the same once the BS knows and is sitting in front of a WS everyday pissed off, breaking down, or 180ing them. Hard to rugsweep and play happy family then.

In any case, this all has made me deeply sad and shocked anew--that she will actually throw her family away for good, and for what? A fantasy. An escape from reality, a reality that she will find herself in, unequipped to deal with without me.

She threw away the family and the M when she broke the rules and had the A. Don't be surpised if she thrives by herself. They aren't frail, dainty little flowers that can't survive on their own. She survived during the A and she will be okay after the D. If she is unequipped for it then that's on her. You need to make sure YOU are equipped to handle things post D.

Anyway, enough about her, right? I am trying the best I can. I try to stay out of the house, hang out with some casual friends, prepare for returning to teaching in August.

Keep it up! force yoruself to go out and do something. This will help you greatly.

And of course the kids. They are not doing too well. My daughter has thus far seemed to be faring fine, as opposed to my son, who is wrecked up over our separation and impending divorce. But now (she is six) she is becoming very clingy to me and to her brother.

I just enetered this realm myself. STBX moved out over the weekend and the kids are with ehr this week. It's still early for me but I truly believe the fact that both of us kept our shit together when telling them helped. They cried and had breakdowns but we answered all the questions they had and kept telling them it will be okay and we still loved them. Am i pissed off about the situation sure but they see the same Dad confidently telling them it will be okay, it's okay to cry, they can ask me any questions they want, and I will alwaws love them. So far they "seem" okay but I think that's because they see that there parents are okay. Stay strong for yrou kids and your kids will be strong. Work through the questions and issues with them as best you can and if they need therapy get it for them.

And my wife simply cannot handle her without me.

I was the "heavy" in my household as well. My stbx is having to learn to deal with the kids on her own as well. Her decisions come with consequences.

Again, I am doing my very best to be strong with them.

keep thsi up and they will be okay. Seeing a strong confident Dad will help them.

We have a very large house and three dogs, so it's constant work to maintain it alone. My wife always did the laundry, so I tend to break down while doing it, so it usually just piles up.

Yeah I am having to adjust to this as well. I tried to start before STBX moved out but it's still a lot. Don't have a choice though do we. I have a routine down for myself that I stick to. I also plan on giving the kids age appropriate chores as well. Will my plan work who knows but if not I will try again until i find one that does.

It is just really tough to be a single dad.

Yeah but once you detach it gets better. At least for me it did. You will be fine.

We will eventually have to sell the house and there are no inexpensive places in their school district. Our kids' world has always been this street, this home, our dream home, with all their friends and their school, which they love. To give this all up is devastating to me, and mind boggling that my wife would choose a fantasy bubble over their children's safe world.

No other way to put this but Shit happens to everyone. It just happened that our shit was impending D and the associated shitstorm that comes with it. You deal with it as best you can and move forward in a ways that beneifts you and your kids. If the schools are important then maybe find an apartment in the area or rent a house. There are always options, you just have to start thinking about them and looking for them.

Oh, and she suddenly lost her six figure job and is unemployed. I don't know how this will affect spousal support or CS.

Talk to your L about this and make sure you knwo exactly when she lost her job. Just because she quit or got fired does not mean you should agree to pay CS fund her forever. Your L can tell you what your state guidelines are but CS isnt' determined based on what your last paycheck was. It typically goes back in time looking at yoru earnings. she will have to get another job. Nothing is stopping her from working. that may be why she is comgin at you really hard right now because she doesnt' have a job. Repeat this with me "NOT MY PROBLEM, SHE CAN GO GET ANOTHER JOB!"

I have the sinking feeling she will want to live in the house, whereas before it was a given that I would remain in the house and she would maintain her apartment. There is no way I am moving out.

FUCK THAT SHIT indeed! Talk to and listen to your L. Don't get sucked into her moving back in and you moving out and paying for everything in mediation. This is how it starts. She has the grease in the hand behind her back and is hoping you will bend over. She fucked up make sure you don't end up paying financially for years while she sits on her ass collecting your checks. Do what's best for you and yrou children just be aware that she is going to try to look out only for herself at your expense. The being nice is buttering you up for something either mediation or trying to come back home because she lost her job.

So everything is (or so it feels) coming down like an avalanche. I know I have to shift my attitude to seeing it as a more positive metaphor, but for now I just can't.

This is your reality so it's okay to see it however you want. Just realize you don't have to STAND in FRONT of the avalanche. keep detaching. That's how you learn to sidestep and watch the avalanche roll down the hill. There will be more stuff to come but you just learn to deal with it as you keep moving forward. keep detaching.

But for now it's not resonating. I want to feel anger, but it's not there. I want to feel indifference, but that's nowhere near me at this point.

I don't know if you analyze things a lot but I did. I think you do as well and I dissected every action my STBX took for a long time alogn with my actions and responses. Eventually I stopped and just handled whatever came my way at that particular time. I dealt with each event as it's own entity.

I am alive, I am functioning, I am being a dad. That's where I am. I guess the good stuff will come later. But it's hard, so hard.

Just keep doing what you are doing, go out and try to build your own life when the kids aren't with you and keep detaching from your STBX. The good does come and it creeps up on you. I didn't think it would either but it did for me so keep at it.

Hi Abbondad,

Check with your attorney on her job loss. Many times it is not just what the x-spouse is making, but their income potential that factors into support.

Find ways to embrace the household chores. For example, I love folding laundry as it gives me an excuse to watch Dangerous Catch or a game on TV while I do it. This makes doing the laundry not so bad as it is more baskets for later. Clearing spider webs can be fun too with a nerf ball or nerf rocket gun.

Your kids will sort things out, just be there for them when they are with you. There was always a very different dynamic with the kids and me versus the kids and FWW. During this period of change and unrest, build as much structure into their lives as you can. Things that are reliable and consistent.

This is also a time to involve them in helping out. Setting tables, cleaning up after meals, etc. It may take more time with them helping, but it is time spent together.

If you are really new to domestic chores, look at some of the books out there like Sidetracked Home Executives and The Lost Art of House Cleaning for ideas to organize your housework and make it more efficient.

I am alive, I am functioning, I am being a dad.

This is the good stuff, trust me. Don't look for the happiness in the future, it is all around you. Yes your WW betrayed you, yes she is stuck in her fantasy world, yes she lost her job, yes you may have to sell the house and change schools, yes laundry is never ending, ... What are the positives? For example, you write:

And of course the kids. They are not doing too well.

immeadiately followed with

My daughter has thus far seemed to be faring fine,...

In what ways is she faring fine? What positives can you identify?

Where do you want to be financially, emotionally, socially by Christmas this year? What steps can you take to move in that direction? Where do you want to be 1 year from today?

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 9:22 AM, June 25th (Tuesday)]

Thanks, Everyone.

Yes, the job loss is real. Not sure what happened. Not good for the family in any case, at least in the short term. We still have to pay the bills.

She wanted to know why I made the mediation appointment for next week:

"I thought we were still talking about this."

I said (gently, not angrily), "We have talked enough. For a long time."

And we have. I know you guys are gonna flay me for this, but the other night we talked for hours. All very well and good--I don't really regret it. And it didn't suck me back in.

But in any case, it amounted to more of the same "talk" we have had for eight months, consisting of different ways of blame shifting, marriage rewriting... No actions, and of course zero remorse.

Onward.

Thank you, Tushnurse, 7rys, atsenaotie, and everyone.

Mediation is Tuesday and I'm starting to freak out. I have been preparing my ideas/needs for the Marital Settlement Agreement. Crunching numbers, living arrangements, etc., all with the children in mind.

It feels so overwhelming, even though we don't have a complicated financial situation, and no debt, thank god.

Again it is essential that the children at least remain in the same school district until high school if not stay in our home. That would be ideal. Moving the kids to a new school would just be too much for them on top of their parents divorcing. You may express that they will adjust, but I know them; they will not.

Moving to a less expensive home in the school district just can't be done. All the homes are at least as expensive as ours. And there are no rentals.

I am just so angry. I am past trying to figure or out or "fix" her. But I am angry, utterly emotionally exhausted, and terribly anxious. (Yes, I am on meds. Don't know how much worse I'd be without them, but it doesn't feel like they are helping.)

Like all of you felt, I am just shocked anew every day that this has happened. I had such a wonderful intact family life growing up, and all I ever wanted was to provide this for my family. To have this dream abruptly destroyed is devastating.

I know I am repeating myself in much of this and restating the obvious, but rather than screaming it, I am posting.

Thanks....

Repeating it over and over is normal. When I did that it wasn't far after that I truly started detaching. Come here and vent it as much as you need. Typing it out helps along with typing out what you need to do even if you aren't truly ready. The process of putting it down helps.

Freaking out leading up to the mediation meeting is normal as well at least it was for me. There was anxiety and nervousness anytime I was getting ready to take a next step in the process.

My only advice is to just power through it. It has to be done. Once you go through the first big step you know what to expect. I knew I would be anxious but afterwards I would be okay so I could better manage my anxiety leading up to future important steps.

Just remember that this is a business negotiation and try your best to leave emotion out of it. Listen to your lawyer. Good luck in the mediation!

ETA: As for the extended conversation, NC is best but I did the same thing. As you continue to detach, all it does is reinforce that nothing has changed. Eventually you won't even want to have those conversations.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 9:44 AM, June 26th (Wednesday)]

I ask this gently because I know it won't make you happy....but how old are your kids? And you are hoping to stay in the same house until they are in high school? While getting ready to mediate a divorce? With a wife who now has no job?

Financially is this do-able?

Really moving the kids will undo them? Maybe take a step back and think on this one. Perhaps a new school where they aren't known as the emotionally destroyed family. They are just the new kids that live with their dad most of the time. Those kids don't know that those kids family is a mess, I heard from my mom that their mom was living with her boyfriend whil married.

Just saying, fear of the unknown is controlling your thoughts again. If you don't think your meds are helping you may need to try something differnt. Hell some antidepressents can cause increased anxiety in some people. Its ok to be sad it's ok to grieve, but its time to start healing too, and the anger will help you with that. Embrace it. It's ok to be pissed that she single handedly destroyed what you envisioned your future to be. Embrace the fact that you can and will have a great future without her. She made her choice, she doesn't get to make your choices too. The best revenge is living happy. Really it is.

Again, no 2x4's here, but really try to detach, kids and finances only.

No she doesn't get to come home since she is unemployed, no she doesn't get more time with the kids because she doesn't have to work. No you don't help her out financially because she messed around, and lost her job. That is on her, and it's her responsibility to get her ass back to work. She had a high paying job it sounds like, so she may have to suck it up, and take something lower paying just to be able to afford her little apartment, whatever that is not your worry. She is capable of being gainfully employed. You can't fix her, you can't get her a job, that is all on her.

(((and strength))))

One of the sad realities of D is that the kids have two parents. They are a product of both parents, and for better and worse, they adopt the charachteristics of boath parents. You cannot insulate your children from the influences (negative oer positive) of your WW's behaviors and lifestyle.

It sounds like the house, neighborhood and school district are a two income family kind of place. If your WW is going to be unemployed, under employed or unreliable, then it does not matter what the kids can or cannot tolerate, reality must be faced.

As you head to D you must prepare to give up some control of your children. She will treat them in ways you feel are inappropriate, her concerns for the children will not match yours, her priorities will differ.

At the time my now ex-H chose to have an affair and we divorced, my son was going to a great private school. I had to pull him out and put him in the local public school.

Sometimes life changes - you either adapt or spend valuable time ruminating on what might have been....

Your anxiety of course, rubs off on the children, which does them no good.

My WW is Hoovering/love bombing me through texts: old poems I wrote to her, our dating profiles (we met online) calling me "sweetheart," "I'm struggling to let you go," "You've always been a guide to me..."

Throwing everything she's got as the eleventh hour approaches.

I am not completely melting like I used to, but if she wanted to make me break down into tears, mission accomplished.

Mediation is still on. No words of remorse, no action.

But please, support. It is so damn hard.

just power through it.

Don't respond to any of these love-bombs. Read them if you must. They'll hurt. And eventually she'll circle back around to being the *victim*.

((AD))

Hang in there. By your fingernails if you have to.

old poems I wrote to her, our dating profiles (we met online) calling me "sweetheart," "I'm struggling to let you go," "You've always been a guide to me..."

And she is probably texting the OM in between her hoovering.

See her for who she is. Not was. IS. Not what you want her to be. Not says she will be. Is.

You can do it. Even if it is in minute by minute increments.

Sending strength.

[This message edited by redrock at 8:39 PM, June 26th (Wednesday)]

just power through it

Thank you. I am, but for the millionth time, what is wrong with these people? Why the script? Why so predictable? Why are we so different? Why do otherwise intelligent people (and my wife is) fail utterly to see the obvious that is so transparent to everyone else?

Is the human brain just that capable of self-delusion on such a grand scale? Rhetorical questions ultimately. But I guess I am not seeing the forest for the trees. Occams Razor, right? Simple: they are selfish.

So depressing. What a waste.

How do you eat an elephant? One bit at a time.

Many of us had to do exactly what you are facing. Pulling kids out of schools, moving, starting a new life.

At first, totally overwhelming. Then, I just broke it down and focused on one part at a time. Just one. Not the whole elephant...just an ear. Then I found I could manage.

Many of us also listened to "those words" and did months of false R. I did too, so desperate to not lose that life, that I listened to the words until I could no longer ignore the actions.

I'm 3 years out from d-day and my kids are thriving. In a house a 1/4 of the size of the old one, with a new school and new friends. My life is 180 degrees different than it used to be. I survived and now thriving and learned to at the ex.

And she is probably texting the OM

Remembering ^^^^THIS is the MOST effective way to chase away the doldrums that you feel from her sappy texts.

Contact w/ OM + sappy texts to you = cruel and insincere WW.