SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Just for fun, look up borderline personality disorder. In and of itself, it isn't diagnosed very often. However, so many WW'S seem to fit many of the criteria.

The lawyer you saw together? That advice should be null and void. You need an advocate for you and the kids. Unfit mother? Um, she just abandoned them with no plan for thier care? She has chosen somewhere to live that cannot accommodate them? One phrase you need to put first and foremost is *in the best interests of the children*. You need to find a lawyer who is experienced in custody issues when men are seeking primary custody. Father's for Equal rights was where I started.

Yea, I won custody of my son. 20 years ago when the standard was mom gets the kids. Brother, its doable. The funding, yea, that's hard. Not as hard as just handing her a check to ignore the kids.

Got more, gotta run though.

Strength

Are you documenting the time you spend with the kids and the time she spends with them? Are you documenting her abandonment etc.?

Don't tip her off that you plan to use the abandonment against her if she stops playing nice.

Also, did you go buy a VAR? They're fairly cheap.

Best wishes

Hobbes, yes I am documenting everything for the past week, since she started taking kids 3 nights/week. Unfortunately, I hadn't thought to do it before then, and hadn't found this site yet. I did put down what I could recall from March, where she basically went lights out for weeks.

What would be the point of a VAR now? I used one in April to catch some of her phone conversations and actually got her on tape saying "I Love You" and "I miss you" to the other guy, which syncs up with call logs to his number, so I knew even before she revealed to me on DDay. But what I would be recording now?

What would be the point of a VAR now?

Self protection. False DV charges are not uncommon. She may also admit to not being capable of tending towards the childrens needs. Depending on where you live, this may or may not be admissible in open court. At this point, consider that everything you do or say WILL be used against you. The converse is also true. She may lie through her teeth to get what she wants. You may need proof to back your statements up.

A suggestion. All communications need to be in documentable form. Text or E-mail only. Kids and finance only. If you must see her in person? VAR or better yet, a witness. Walk across the street. What have the neighbors seen? Will they be witnesses in a D trial? Will the next door neighbor be willing to help when she comes over?

Brother, prepare yourself. This stuff is not for the weak.

Christ! False DV charges? That's just insane, but guess none of this bullshit makes any sense. I went through and documented every detail of what she did with kids over past week, both good and bad, down to what they had for dinner.

I can't believe it's come to this. How in the hell does the person who you love more than anything in this world turn on you so badly? I'm being very thorough but it still breaks my heart knowing I may have to go into court and make WW look like a terrible person, unfit for parenting. Someone I would have willingly died for just a few weeks ago. When does this shit get easier? I'm past the really tough pain, but still bouncing around every day between hate, indifference, and hoping somehow WW will come to her senses.

Brother, I hear you loud and clear. To think that my wife could be someone who could bail on her kids baffles me everyday. To know that she's choosing to miss her oldest son's 17th b-day this week absolutely depresses me and infuriates me. She has not contributed any $ to their well being since she bailed 3 months ago.

It just fucks with your heart and head so much to think of the complete turnaround we have to do when dealing with our WW's its damn near impossible not to go crazy over!

Again, 5 months ago we were making jokes about everything. Now, I have carefully watch what I say and she says so its not used against me! How the fuck did I get like this so fast?!?!

Thanks for the reply. Yes, it's heartbreaking and utterly insane how they're acting. I wish I had something more helpful to help, but for the foreseeable future you'll have to survive things, and then, after a while, you'll start to notice things getting better.

What have you been doing to feel good mentally and physically?

Best wishes

Thanks Hobbes. I'm back in the church and making new friends, plus getting involved in some volunteer activities. That and reconnecting with family and old friends has really helped.

I want to get an opinion from everyone about something. The last OM that my WW was involved with (not the current one whom she is living with), sent me a FB message and said there were 2 affairs before him. I already had suspected about 1 but had no idea there may have been a 2nd, which would make it 4 total. I don't know why but I'm suddenly obsessed with knowing for sure. Would it just be a huge mistake to contact this guy and at least ask him for names and dates, assuming he knows? He was honest about everything else so no idea why he would make up the fact there were 2 OM before him. And if he gives me one name that I suspect, then I'll at least have confirmation. WW has consistently denied that there were any other men prior to the last guy, so she's only admitting to having 2 A.

Or am I better off just moving on and not worrying about it? No idea why it's suddenly bugging me so much.

I guess it just depends on what your need to know is for. Are you trying to use it for divorce purposes? Or are you just trying to find to say you know? If you're just looking for confirmation, I say let it go. Don't go pain shopping, brother. If you've already suspected it then its probably true, given what yourlve already dealt with. Now, if your lawyer says it will help, then got for it! But my lawyer said that using infidelity in court causes a lot more mud slinging and expenses. But that's my state of VA.

Let it go if its just for you, man. Don't set yourself up for more hurt than what you're going thru. Keep what memories you have good. The more questions you have and find answers to just breeds more questions you won't be able to answer.

Would it just be a huge mistake to contact this guy and at least ask him for names and dates, assuming he knows? He was honest about everything else so no idea why he would make up the fact there were 2 OM before him.

The need to know is very strong in many BS's, because first of all, it affected their life, and secondly wondering sucks.

If you believe him to be honest, ask him for all of the details. Names, places, proof, whatever.

It is just more information you have. If it does you any good, fine.

I wonder why is this guy so willing to give up information that doesnt concern him. This whole thing sounds like the tip of the iceberg.

Get the information. But you already know your WW is mentally messed up.

Thanks for the replies guys. The FB message was from a few weeks ago; he hasn't contacted me recently. But he did mentioned 2 prior OM. I think the original motivation for the message was probably an attempt to just throw my WW under the bus after she broke things off, but I believe he did feel at least a little guilty. I helped this guy tremendously and considered him a good friend.

Guess there's a chance he was just making stuff up to make WW sound even worse, but not sure why he would bother. What's the difference between 1 A or 5? What really bothers me is that WW denied it, even when asked point blank about how many OM she had been involved with. So I guess I'm really trying to figure out whether I can trust her at all now, given her desire to be "friends". Maybe she is worried that the truth will push me over the edge and have me going commando with the attorneys.

I'll have to think about it. At this point, I'm probably going to lay low until I get papers filed in next few weeks, and we get the custody issues settled. For one thing, I don't completely trust the previous OM to keep my confidence, so if I contact him, he may go running to WW with the news. I'm sure he would still take her back in a second, given the chance, so that would be a way he could show her he's on her side. But for some reason, I really want to know the complete truth. So I'll probably reach out to him in a few weeks, after legal matters are more or less settled and see what he has to say. Or maybe by then, I'll reach a point where I just don't care anymore.

Feel like I'm getting there, and I really wish I could hurry up and have all my feelings go away. Need a pill that makes you quit loving someone. Guess that's even progress for me, because a few weeks ago, I couldn't stand the thought of not loving WW anymore. Now I just want to move on and be happy w/o her. Still sort of looking forward to what's an almost inevitable train wreck of her life in a few months to a year, but hopefully by then I really just won't give a shit anymore.

Dont do any more digging. It will just bring you more pain. You picked a bad one. Let her go. Accept she is broken and move on with your life.

We fully expect her current boyfriend to be visiting SI in a couple of years.

Thanks BP. I'm starting to agree with you guys that it's best for me just to leave well enough alone. Knowing won't change the outcome, and I really don't want to communicate with that selfish prick anyway to get the info.

As far as "picking a bad one", I disagree. When we married, she was the sweetest, most adorable girl I had ever met. And she gave me 4 beautiful boys. I am happy for the time we had together for the most part, other than the last 3-4 years, where she really did transform into another person. I'm sure I will always love and care about her, and hope we can reach a point where maybe we can be at least casual friends. I've given up on the illusion of a R because I realize she is broken, and likely to stay that for for months or years to come.

And as time goes on, I really don't think I could take her back, even years down the road. Just too much damage. I promised myself when I start dating again, I would never be involved with a cheater, and unfortunately, WW is permanently in that category. I guess you can never say never and who knows how things might change, but I'm not even putting that possibility on my radar anymore. By the time WW comes to her senses, I hope to be happily involved with a sane person.

As far as "picking a bad one", I disagree. When we married, she was the sweetest, most adorable girl I had ever met. And she gave me 4 beautiful boys. I am happy for the time we had together for the most part, other than the last 3-4 years, where she really did transform into another person.

I'm with you on this one HA. Just because this is who your WW is today, doesn't mean that's who she will be forever. Maybe one day she will have her Ah ah moment. By then, the damage will be done. That doesn't mean all the good things she brought to your life should be forgotten about. Just for the sake of keeping strong at this particular time, you can't forget who she is right now. I believe there should be a healthy balance between who she was and who she is. At least for me, that's how I work towards indifference.

[This message edited by LonelyLucas at 7:50 PM, May 3rd (Sunday)]

Hurt,

I agree, brother. I truly don't believe my WW was like this all her life or even thru all our marriage. I believe that I DID make her happy. I just think that SHE got to a point where she wasn't happy about HERSELF and looked to everything and everyone to validate her. It just got a point where she secretly craved it desperately and enter OM. It was easy, it was convenient, it was something all to her own. And when she got caught, it was just too hard to admit she had a problem. It was just too much work to fix what she broke. Maybe it was age or MLC, maybe it was boredom, it doesn't matter anymore. What matters, to me, are the good moments and times we had. It wasn't always like this. It was never hostile phone calls and uneasiness when together, or arguments. We were a good team and we did love each other very much. Still do, I think. I just think ego and pride keep her from seeing anything rational anymore. There were jokes, romantic dates, moments watching and helping our kids grow up. Whatever happened between us doesn't take those moments away. If something did happen during those times, like another A, I'm not sure I would want to know and run the risk of destroying any more moments than have already been ruined.

I say let sleeping dogs lie. If you do truly wish to have WW as something of a casual friend later, don't go looking for more skeletons in anymore closets. Keep the good times the good times.

Brother, as always, I'm here to bestow whatever advice and friendship I can. These are uneasy times for us and we need all the backup we can give one another.

[This message edited by FormerArmyGuy at 9:24 PM, May 3rd (Sunday)]

Army, great advice as always. I'm with you on everything you said. I KNOW WW loved me when we first married and for years after. Becoming a mother was one of the happiest times of her life, as she has told me on many occasions. We simply slipped into a rut and she felt unappreciated,and maybe bored or stressed with real life. She wanted to escape. Funny enough, the reason WW gave me for choosing the latest OM and moving in with him was the same as what you just said. She didn't think I could ever trust her again and couldn't go back to being a stay at home mom 24-7. I didn't get a say, she just told me that was her decision and reasons. To me, it's a cop out because she either really wanted to be with OM or simply wasn't willing to put in the work to fix us. Easier to move on. What can we do? Not much but keep going and be there for our kids. I'm sure there will be some level of regret somewhere down the road from both our WWs but it will be too little, too late brother. Hope we both find happiness again.

HurtnAlone- "We simply slipped into a rut and she felt unappreciated,and maybe bored or stressed with real life. She wanted to escape."

Well, don't we all want to escape life at some point. Poor baby. The reality is, Life is getting through the tough times, which are many for a long-term marriage. You survive so many challenges by the time you are married 35 yrs. Get a g/d hobby!

Yes - you get into ruts around year 1, year 7 (yr itch), 12, or whatever the #'s. We are all tempted at many times when our hormones are at fever-pitch levels. And, when our marriages are weak for whatever reasons , and you work it out in your younger years - but who acts on that with the choice of cheating?

I never faced that in our 35 yrs together!

Commitment is what we signed up for. I could give the best b/j's after awhile, and he could cook up a mean dinner afterwards. (yiii...balance way off there) But, I forgave the sex for the nice guy he was.

It is character that stops us from acting on that. Morals. Our upbringing, for God's sake. What damage these people do for a quick fuck or even a LTF (mine) is something they will have to live with the rest of their life. I hope it is their bane, to live with guilt, because X was the most honest guy I ever knew since I was 21, and this is where it ended. Lies upon lies upon lies.

If it wasn't for the internet and sites like this, I would never have filed so quickly. Thanks to all for the wise advice.

Thanks SheWiz. I agree with you about character. I was tempted to stray several times over our M but never did. I knew I loved my WW and that it would break apart our family, all for a cheap fling. For some reason, it seems that a lot of women (probably men too) go through something in their late 30's, early 40's and have an A. Often times with many years of M and kids at home. I know so many people in my own life who have went through this situation, always around the same point, and in most cases it's the woman who strayed. I think that if we could have made it past the next year or two, we would have been together for life. But I guess everything happens for a reason, and I can't control anyone else's actions. Right now, I'm focused on being the best I can be for myself, and for my boys. In a few months, I will start dating again, and with God's grace, I will find love with a loyal partner, one who will stick with me to the end.

It seems like you have already accepted things and forgiven her. I think you hold the record. So what do you need from us?

Thanks BP. TBH, my attitude changes every day. I had a pretty good weekend and was feeling OK with things. But today it hit me again, and I just had a desperate desire to call WW and beg her to come to her senses. I did end up texting her but kept it mostly to discussion of finances and kids. It was a challenge.

I walk around the house and still see a lot of her clothes, pictures of us together, even certain pots & pans trigger a memory, and the flood of emotions comes rushing in. Haven't broken into tears nearly as often but once in a while just can't hold it back. I really hate the daily ups and downs. Every time I think I'm starting to accept the situation, feel like I take 2 steps backwards. It does help when I stay busy, so think that's why the weekend was so good; barely had any down time. When I'm at home by myself with time to think, it's trouble. So thankful for this site, as it has become an incredible outlet and source of advice and inspiration.

So what do I need? Nothing more than what you guys are already providing. A compassionate voice and solid advice. I'm only a few weeks out from DDay and I'm sure it will get better as the weeks roll by.