SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Walloped, I have attempted to comment all day. I have literally written comments over a dozen times and erased. Just on the question, Why did they do what they did? When I caught my fiancé with her lover, they left immediately. So it has become obvious to me she didn't care. But you had over 20 years of happiness with this woman. I will admit to you, that when I read your post about the family outing, that I also cried. And that my friend is why I have had to erase so many times. I can't figure out how a woman can spend her entire adult life with a man, have children with this man, build a life with this man, dream with this man, and then cheat. Become this other person, till you catch them, and they get that reality slap to the face, Then they want to go back to the way it was. Please don't get me wrong. I am not trying to make a case for leaving your wife, If truth be known, I actually think your wife has shown more remorse and regret than any other I have read about on this site. I just have not been able to understand how they get to the cheating part to begin with. I'm glad this site is here for you, it wasn't for me 25 years ago, and I made horrid mistakes. Walloped I hope nothing but the best for you. I realize that you want to want to reconcile. Brother, I hope you get there. But if you don't that's ok too.

There is something which doesn't add up to me with her behavior too. I'm not suggesting anything bad is still going on, it's just that my sense is that something is off.

I don't know what, and it admittedly could be my own interpretation.

Walloped, once the decision is firm, your best advice may come from the reconciliation forum. Move the patient from triage to stable. Long term couples in recovery with solid guidance for you to feed on. The goal is to stay out of infidelity. Saturday means 4 more IC sessions for your wife & 2 more for you, & 8 more nights apart. That is huge because she has just started to peel the onion back. You demand nothing less than rigorous honesty & NC. She will have to provide it to stay safe for you. More honest responses will continue the processing through therapy. Always remember the POS was & is a player and WW has to process this. I agree that her memories can NEVER be processed as good, only pain. NO EUPHORIC RECALL. Feed The Good Wolf. Prayers today for clarity & healing.

You know why it's always more heavy lifting for the BS? (imo), because the WS has the whole truth.

For me, the hardest part is the not knowing. Not knowing everything that happened. And, especially, not knowing the truth NOW. Is he being faithful?

Cause we can never swear for them anymore. I know, as if we ever really could swear for anyone but ourselves. But, that's what I consider the hardest part. If we choose to reconcile, it's essential at some point that we let go of the need to swear by them. That we need to make our decision to stay and thus live in the present. That's my biggest heavy lifting.

Oh, and Setecastronomy, thanks for the chuckle.

And for sure, a truly remorseful spouse doesn't have fond memories of their affair. My husband is disgusted with himself on a daily basis.

Speaking for myself divorcing my WW and living with her would make it much easier to repair our relationship. I could tell her you paid a price, you’re sorry and you’re doing everything right. The affair is in the past. Let’s move on with our lives.

It would also allow me to be less cautious in trusting her again. By not being married another betrayal wouldn’t sting as much. If she found someone else she would be very free to act upon it in an open manner without having to lie and sneak around. If she is with me it’s because she wants to be.

I think you feel pressure to R because you have the power to fix everything. If you take your WW back all of the family pieces pop back into place.

[This message edited by Graywolf at 7:59 AM, September 9th (Wednesday)]

I have to agree with Eric on this. Something is off.

I think you need to slow down on the whole final decision of whether to R or D. It's my belief that the other shoe(s) hasn't quite dropped yet. You need to stay as detached as possible until you are absolutely sure you have all the info and details.

A detail that draws my attention is your BIL's behavior when he's around you. You interpret that as his general discomfort with all this. Wouldn't anyone be? But his seems to handicap him from being supportive like the others. He is married to your wife's sister and close confidante, could he be privy to other details.

My apologies if I seem to be beating a dead horse.

It's just that people do not normally have experience or a base of knowledge to draw from when dealing with any sort of serious betrayal.

That's why sites like this are useful.

There is something which doesn't add up to me with her behavior too. I'm not suggesting anything bad is still going on, it's just that my sense is that something is off.

I don't know what, and it admittedly could be my own interpretation.

Eric, earlier you said

This is a pretty by-the-book affair.

Is Mrs. Walloped maybe deviating from the script a little too much at this point? It does seem like she came out of the fog pretty quickly.

MUSASHI, when you say

A detail that draws my attention is your BIL's behavior when he's around you. You interpret that as his general discomfort with all this. Wouldn't anyone be? But his seems to handicap him from being supportive like the others. He is married to your wife's sister and close confidante, could he be privy to other details.

are you thinking of other details about this A, or details of other ones?

[This message edited by Foley05 at 7:38 AM, September 9th (Wednesday)]

It's not that sense.

I think BIL is probably more in the dark as anyhow. He probably knew what went on, and is just uncomfortable as all fuck with the entire thing. You know when you're in the receiving line of a funeral of someone you knew, but you didn't really know their family? That feeling of complete fucking uncomfortableness of having to offer condolences to someone where it's not really your place to offer condolences? That's BIL.

My version of off is this, it's a very bad description, but it's what it is. I apologize in advance for this tangeant.

I used to run a large network. Like 2000 locations in nascent internet days. As you may imagine, I had a lot of guys (and a few girls) who worked for me. In fact, most of my time was spent hiring and working with people than performing actual tech responsibilities. It was fun in a way.

We used to debate long and hard where our best candidates came from. We had a healthy budget so school wasn't much of a concern. I recruited from MIT just as much as the local community college.

The MIT students were the enigma. Obviously they had a pedigree. From a knowledge standpoint they could run rings around the other candidates. But once they started, even though they were everything we wanted on paper, they just were not good employees. Maybe they were not team players, or perhaps they didn't have that espirit de corps that propelled folks to the next level. Maybe it was a sense of entitlement. Maybe it was an inability to associate the human element of their position with what they learned in the books.

Over time I discovered a lot of these things, but what it really boiled down to is that these candidates could not "be" their jobs. Their jobs were always something that they did and something that they measured themselves by. There was always that string between their heart and their brain that was missing.

After almost a decade of doing this, I got this sense of a person. It could be one or more of the items on the list above or it could be something else. But I did develop this spidey sense of just identifying something...off. And that is what I'm feeling here.

Honestly I think that she's appalled at what she did because she got caught. She's trying to navigate what she's supposed to be doing, but she's not really doing anything. She's horrified (to her soul) to be in this situation but she's not horrified to be this person. I'm pretty sure she'll never re-engage with her boyfriend, but I'm not sure she'll ever forget him.

I don't know, in this case I guess I just sense something broken. I sense Wallup is broken. I hate calling for a divorce, because things are so broken you don't know how to best clean up the mess. I hate to say reconciliation, because things are so intrinsically broken that there isn't a bottle of super glue big enough to put it back together, and even if you did it would still look like shit.

This is my long-winded way of saying that there are some folks who can make a decision right away. In this particular case, the planets need to align for either reconciliation or dissolution of the marriage to occur, and I just don't think that the lunar gods are planning on aligning in the next few days, if you catch my drift.

I probably did a bad job at articulating this. It's hard to put a gut feeling into words

Is Mrs. Walloped maybe deviating from the script a little too much at this point? It does seem like she came out of the fog pretty quickly.

I think that the affair is pretty by-the-book. I do think that once the egg is cracked that different people will operate differently.

By the standard affair comment, my reference was to what was going to happen if the affair had continued, which was probably in a month or two she would have finally relinquished seeing him at night and maybe even spending the night over. That would follow the same escalation patterns. The emotional escalation pattern would fallow in a linear basis, meaning as behavior escalated she would become more comfortable with him, culmitating in a "I love you but I don't love you" speech to Wallup.

But getting caught is an external stimulus on an internalized behavior, everyone is going to react differently. My opinion of how she is acting now doesn't really take into consideration how typical or atypical the actual affair was. Although I do think that my spidey sense is going off because I do sense some atypical recovery behavior. Maybe it is coming out of the fog too soon? I really don't know, I tried to articulate above and probably did a poor job at doing so.

I can't figure out how a woman can spend her entire adult life with a man, have children with this man, build a life with this man, dream with this man, and then cheat. Become this other person, till you catch them, and they get that reality slap to the face, Then they want to go back to the way it was.

People get lost in life.

People get selfish in life.

Their sex does not matter.

But when a person is both lost & selfish they then act in very destructive ways. Very rarely does something good from this type of person.

Do these lost & selfish people find themselves? In time many do. They then go on to lead healthy, productive lives.

These periods of destructive behavior can happen when they early teens, middle adult and sometimes much later in life.

The key is they find themselves. Sometimes they need help or encouragement. Often times we as adults give them the "space" to figure out themselves, who they are or wo they have become and is this behavior the new "normal" or was this a temporary case of "bad" (lost & selfish) behavior.

The key is that person takes ownership of their bad decisions. They acknowledge the hurt they have caused others.

But not only do they need to take responsibility for the damage they caused they also need to want to become a good person that can make healthy decisions for themselves.

None of this happens over night.

Whether or not W's wife can find herself is truly up to her. Her sticking up for him is a good sign.

Now he needs to see if she can stick up for herself first, her marriage second and her family third.

That is the long term test.

Keep the focus on you W. Heal yourself first.

HM

I recognize that the heavy lifting will need to be on me

Yup

If your wife takes a baseball bat to your shin and gives you an open tib-fib fracture,whether she meant to do it or whether she was swinging at a pot and you got in the way, it doesn't matter how much remorse she feels about it, you are left with a rod in your leg and having to do PT. She can bring you a pillow to rest your leg on, but she can't do the healing for you.

Really, what does a WS have to do other than Stop That Shit and start doing what they were supposed to be doing in the first place? No confusion on their part.

Good morning Walloped,

OK, I am throwing myself on the sword for the devils advocate summary of the stupid song! My bad!

I noted some comments about BIL being avoidant or uncomfortable....(shit here's that little devil again) Just a thought, It's also possible he's uncomfortable or avoidant because he is having an A of his own and he can't look at you hurting because he sees the consequences of his own actions??? Just a possibility, and it doesn't rate any higher than anyone elses speculation!

Heavy lifting!! There is no easy way out of this shit. All the affected persons have their work cut out for them, some rise to the occasion (like you) I suppose for the ones who have been able to make a decision that affects their life going forward, then the nature of the work changes and is informed by the decision. All of it respectfully is heavy. FYI My pectoral muscles are particularly buff presently!

The key is that person takes ownership of their bad decisions. They acknowledge the hurt they have caused others.

Happy Man that is it in a nutshell! Accepting responsibility and suffering the consequences. I think both require a moderate to high level of self awareness and assumes one has a moral compass to govern themselves by.

Just hoping that with each passing day, the load we carry lightens!

Wishing you a lighter load, today and in the days to come. (((Walloped)))

WTTS.

A detail that draws my attention is your BIL's behavior when he's around you. You interpret that as his general discomfort with all this. Wouldn't anyone be? But his seems to handicap him from being supportive like the others. He is married to your wife's sister and close confidante, could he be privy to other details.

MUSASHI

This is certainly a possibility. Or could he know or suspect that his wife (your SIL) had an affair? Maybe he’s triggering.

Although I do think that my spidey sense is going off because I do sense some atypical recovery behavior. Maybe it is coming out of the fog too soon? I really don't know.

eric1

Your wife has resources on the web and her sister to tell her how a WW should act. Maybe her sister is a R expert from personal experience. If I remember correctly your SIL jumped into action pretty quickly telling your wife she was giving it up for a few dinners.

I think her sister told your wife to put her big girl pants on and do the right thing. You’re a good man and you have a great extended family so the right thing was easy to determine.

She saw me and what it was doing to me and immediately tried to get it to stop. He said, “she was trying to protect you. You should just know that.”

Yes your brother is right. She saw it was triggering you and took action.

That is at least twice now that she was protecting you. the first time was when you daughters thought you were the one that had the affair and she set the record straight. and this is a good start with the heavy lifting on her part.

yes songs do cause triggers.

Triggers are a bitch.

[This message edited by convert at 10:18 AM, September 9th (Wednesday)]

Your BIL reaction sounds a little like he is triggering.

Graywolf has a good point:

Maybe her sister is a R expert from personal experience.

and so does Wantthistostop:

It's also possible he's uncomfortable or avoidant because he is having an A of his own and he can't look at you hurting because he sees the consequences of his own actions???

[This message edited by convert at 10:16 AM, September 9th (Wednesday)]

Ever look at something on a microscope slide, in high school?

The little bubbles..are they cells, or bubbles? Just barely touch that slide while you're looking through the lens, and -zoom!- the slide jumps radically, abruptly, to one side causing the bubble/cell to be gone and the need to refocus everything.

That is what Wallop's thread seems to have become to me.

"Wait! What did the SIL have for breakfast!? Is the BIL's car blue? Well, then, if she swims for recreational exercise what she said may mean something completely different! Hey! Wait! The moon was waxing gibbous last week!..." etc etc

That is at least twice now that she was protecting you. the first time was when you daughters thought you were the one that had the affair and she set the record straight. and this is a good start with the heavy lifting on her part.

convert

It’s very clear that your wife has some good qualities and loves you. However it may be that she loves you like a brother. Biologically romantic love lasts about two years and is then replaced by something deeper that is needed to raise a family. So you are right on schedule.

Your wife had no intention of having an affair. She spent time with the OM doing something wholesome which gave him the opportunity to come in under the radar. If he had tried to pick her up in a bar he wouldn’t have had a chance.

He was new so romantic love was off to the races. In addition she was able to be naughty for the first time in her life. She knew what she was doing but once she got a taste the excitement was intoxicating. Now she knows she can’t have that excitement and her family.

"Wait! What did the SIL have for breakfast!? Is the BIL's car blue? Well, then, if she swims for recreational exercise what she said may mean something completely different! Hey! Wait! The moon was waxing gibbous last week!..." etc etc

Canoe - This made me laugh. I've just been commenting on my BIL because he seems awkward around me. I don't know if it's because he gets all the juicy details from my SIL, or he witnessed my wife as an emotional wreck while she was staying at his house, or maybe he is having an affair, or his wife had an affair (it seems every one is nowadays), or maybe he just looks at me as a pathetic loser who couldn't keep his wife from running out on him and it makes him feel awkward. I have no clue. And I really don't care. It only impacts me because his awkwardness makes everyone else awkward.

I may ask him about it. Or just let him figure himself out.

I was actually at the point of wondering whether BIL had been involved with your wife at some point. Not to throw gasoline on the fire or anything...