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Most likely nothing will change her mind but I agree divorce papers are the next step once my ducks are in a row. She knows I've seen one. I'll talk to my lawyer about optimal timing. If she wants to try to reconcile before the divorce is final ... I guess I can decide then.

Now that makes sense. You can stop divorce anytime you want to. If she knows you are or have seen an attorney and is still planing on continuing to see OM, then you decision to assume she is still cheating is totally correct. To someone who wanted to save their marriage, knowing their spouse has already set in motion a meeting that could lead to divorce should have made a believer of her.

This just seems like a bit much, and the VAR is illegal where I live anyway. Instead I'm going to assume nothing she says is the truth, and that it's not really over, and operate accordingly.

VAR's are illegal in a lot of states. You really think she is going to go to the expense of taking you to court over that. ???

I have only been on this forum a short time but have read a lot of threads where VAR was used and have not read about anyone getting sued. You call, but you seem to be moving in the right direction without any more information. You seem to already know somehow that they are not planing to end this.

Frk, several really good posts, just above (esp Brandon's). You are definitely a threat to him, and trust us...he's worried about that. His fallout (as principal/supervisor) would be much more severe than for your wife (who could ultimately plead that he was a predator).

Now, that said, let's break this down from the OM's perspective:

Ok, so here's how I envision the one-sided conversation going. Some of you seem to think I'm going to be nice to him:

I have no interest in anything you have to say.

I doubt any of this will impact you.

I'm more upset with my wife than with you (she took the vow)

But I'm not some random schmuck to you either

I considered you a friend

I had you in my home

Mother-in-law used to say you were "after" WW when you took such an interest in her career.

I always defended you.

Remember how you used to act like the district superintendent was "disgusting" b/c he cheated on his wife? You're no better than him.

I don't know if I will see you again

Maybe I'll have to fake being civil, esp. if my kids are around.

But don't ever forget what I really think of you.

Now get out.

(and understand I'm being devil's advocate, trying to help you reason through this during a time when your world has been turned upside down & shaken)

I have no interest in anything you have to say. -Contradiction. Then why are you here (addressing me, the OM)?

I doubt any of this will impact you.Oh, but it does. I know it; you know it. I am concerned w/ my job and whether you're going to blow that up (see Brandon's comments above)

I'm more upset with my wife than with you (she took the vow) Yeah. So? You don't matter to me.

But I'm not some random schmuck to you either Yes you are. Not only that, you're a schmuck whose wife I've had. (seriously...Frk, he gives not a half a rat's ass about you. Disabuse yourself of the notion that he does. He doesn't.)

I considered you a friend You dope.

I had you in my home Of course. And I cased the joint out.

Mother-in-law used to say you were "after" WW when you took such an interest in her career. So? She was right. What of it?

I always defended you. You dope

Remember how you used to act like the district superintendent was "disgusting" b/c he cheated on his wife? You're no better than him. Yea I am; your wife is hotter. I love her.

I don't know if I will see you again Not if both of us are lucky.

Maybe I'll have to fake being civil, esp. if my kids are around. Why are you telling me this? I don't care. I care about your WW.

But don't ever forget what I really think of you. I don't care.

Now get out. Okay.

------------

Now, I hope I'm not being harsh. But OM's perspective is not one as a friend. He doesn't give a shit about you. Not one iota. It (any presumed friendship) was all about getting close to your WW. Not you. We have seen this here a million times, Frk.

He.

Doesn't.

Care.

What.

You.

Think.

OM cares about OM.

Think about that scene with Harrison Ford and Tommy Lee Jones in 'The Fugitive'. Ford's character, Dr. Kimble tells Marshall Gerard (Tommy Lee Jones) in that water pipe tunnel, "I didn't do it!" And Tommy Lee Jones says "I don't care!" That is OM. He does not care about you, nor about what you think. (Look at my profile; I knew that guy...he didn't care! None of the OMs do)

His wife needs to know, it's her right to do with that info that she wants. Your wife seems like someone who isn't going to fall back in line, and her confession that she loves him...that should be your deal breaker. Your kids are important but they aren't stupid either and they would rather have their whole daddy over a half broken one. You need to really sit down and evaluate your future. It's ok to go to therapy alone and figure your own head out. But my simpleton advice...I'd start looking at the end of this chapter and working on a new one. But that's just me. God bless you man, we're all dealing with something. You're not alone.

Adultery and oral sex is illegal in a lot of states, too.

Don't confront the OM, tell his wife.

That will put a SIGNIFICANT amount of strain on the A:

*The OM will be onthe defense, trying to save his M (and will likely drop your W like a bad habit).

*Have a second set of eyes on them at all times.

*Show your W that you mean business and there are consequences to her actions.

*Show them both that this is a significant risk to thier careers.

i echo that you MUST tell his wife and do not tell your wife that you are doing this. only one thing will come out of talking to him - you will signal what your game plan is. it is best to stick to your game plan and do what is best for you. What is best for you is understanding your rights by talking to a lawyer and by exposing the affair.

I told my wife I was not planning to tell his wife -- before I'd really thought this through fully. If I choose to go nuclear I'm set up pretty well

That's not nuclear. It is one of the first steps in getting yourself out of infidelity.

This just seems like a bit much, and the VAR is illegal where I live anyway.

I never used one. In my case, didn't need to. But I've seen VARs save many a BS's ass here. It isn't illegal to have a VAR in a car you own. You own her car? It isn't illegal anywhere to have a VAR on your person. Now, know that nothing on your VAR will be admissible in court...EXCEPT...it is a great help in proving false domestic violence charges. This isn't Perry Mason. This is your life and marriage. Get a VAR. Maybe even 2.

But I am starting to see some possible value in putting this off.

Good. Think long about that move. Do you play chess? Be thinking 2 moves ahead.

By the way, thanks so much to everyone who has posted responses.

Frk, this place is great. There's a lot of help from an unusual bunch of guys who have "been there, done that". If it isn't part of our own experiences, we've seen it play out here on SI. We care. We know and understand your pain & confusion right now. Be strong, my man.

Look at NightHawk's post. 100% correct. Your energy needs to be on planning the exposure to OBS (other betrayed spouse). Nothing blows up an A like a BW (betrayed wife) helping your efforts from the other side of the fence.

my ww straight up knows I have VAR'd her ass...hell it's alleged in some of the divorce paperwork. But unless she or anyone else is in possession of any alleged recordings or recording devices then even if she decided to sue it wouldn't matter....because...no proof.

**Use an old smartphone and download a free VAR app if you don't wanna buy an actual VAR.

Also agree w/ everyone about confronting OM...don't waste ur time. Talking ain't gonna do shit...and well, beating his head in is out of the question unless you want to throw ur life into an even deeper mess...you have those kids to think about...remember that.

Definitely tell OM's wife..and don't delay because the OM is prolly already laying down some pre-emptive damage control.

You mentioned the nuclear option...do it...do all of it. Dragging your feet on any of this stuff will only prolong their A and your pain.

Take control...your driving this bus now.

VAR's are illegal in a lot of states. You really think she is going to go to the expense of taking you to court over that. ???

I have only been on this forum a short time but have read a lot of threads where VAR was used and have not read about anyone getting sued. You call, but you seem to be moving in the right direction without any more information. You seem to already know somehow that they are not planing to end this.

It's a criminal offense. If they know I have a recording then they have leverage to report me to the police. Plus, I'm a lawyer so they could report me to the bar. Not worth it.

It isn't illegal to have a VAR in a car you own. You own her car? It isn't illegal anywhere to have a VAR on your person. Now, know that nothing on your VAR will be admissible in court...EXCEPT...it is a great help in proving false domestic violence charges. This isn't Perry Mason. This is your life and marriage. Get a VAR. Maybe even 2.

Dude, I'm a lawyer. My car/their car, it doesn't matter. In my state all parties need to consent to a recorded conversation. It would be useless as evidence or even as leverage, and the fact that I did it would give him/them leverage on me. There are other states where only one party needs to consent - in which case, record away as long as you're in the conversation.

I wouldn't get too hung up on the VAR arguement.

Maybe you already have done it but maybe take a step back and lay out your gameplan?

Just a note to, hopefully, put to rest the chance of a "meeting" with the OM. I have posted this before because I have seen both of the following occur:

1. You meet the OM and he tells you something about your wife that you will NEVER forget.

"Did you know that I'm not the first guy she was banging behind your back?"

"Guess what, dude. I f'd her in the ###." (or any other sexual comment that screws with your head for the next 5 years).

Infidelity is hard enough without the mind games racing through your skull.

2. The OM follows you outside and kicks the shit out of you.

I know, we all think that, if necessary, we're going to dish out the justice. Until you're the guy with two less teeth and you're sitting in your car having gotten your ass kicked by the guy who's f'ing your wife. Not a good feeling.

Nothing good can come of a meeting with the OM. You know why? Because - as has been stated - he doesn't give a rats ass about you or about anything you have to say about him. He was a friend? Well, he was a friend who was doing your wife. He's no friend. He's a soulless POS who will do anything to keep from having to look at himself.

Deal with your wife. Have strength. Make her cozy life uncomfortable.

Good luck.

Dude, I'm a lawyer. My car/their car, it doesn't matter. In my state all parties need to consent to a recorded conversation. It would be useless as evidence or even as leverage, and the fact that I did it would give him/them leverage on me. There are other states where only one party needs to consent - in which case, record away as long as you're in the conversation.

I defer to your judgement, and even allow that as a lawyer, you don't want to jeopardize your own license...even inadvertently.

Still. VARs have been an enormous help to many here.

And I hope I didn't sound argumentative. Not my intention at all. This infidelity stuff is just so heinous, I only want to help those who have been hurt.

Ok, forget an electronic VAR.

What about a human one?

If you do go through with meeting the OM then have a friend, someone you trust, sit close enough to hear your conversation.

[This message edited by Brandon808 at 1:18 PM, March 8th (Tuesday)]

I agree with Canoe (and many others), don't confront the OM. He is a narcissist, he only cares about himself. He has no morals and no conscience. He may even get some joy from the confrontation.

Do tell his wife. She deserves to know, she needs to protect herself and her kids, she needs to tested for STDs (I got 2 from my WH).

The person to confront is your WW. You need to tell her what you need from her to decide if R is possible -

NC

NC letter that you see her send - short, to the point

Total transparency

IC for her

STD testing

She gets a new job

Of course she may say no, I want a divorce. At least your children will not have to grow up in a broken home.

I defer to your judgement, and even allow that as a lawyer, you don't want to jeopardize your own license...even inadvertently.

Still. VARs have been an enormous help to many here.

And I hope I didn't sound argumentative. Not my intention at all. This infidelity stuff is just so heinous, I only want to help those who have been hurt.

No offense taken. I know you're trying to help.

Maybe you already have done it but maybe take a step back and lay out your gameplan?

I think this is my key before I do anything else.

People here are just trying to help. I'm new here as well but I'd wager if you go through the top 20 or 30 'stories' in this forum. You're a lawyer and know the importance of precedent. Out of those 20-30 stories I'll challenge you to find one instance where exposure was not the exact right thing to do. There is literally no downside. You need to assume the affair is still going on, this is the only way to end it.

Ok, so here's how I envision the one-sided conversation going. Some of you seem to think I'm going to be nice to him:

I have no interest in anything you have to say.

I doubt any of this will impact you.

I'm more upset with my wife than with you (she took the vow)

But I'm not some random schmuck to you either

I considered you a friend

I had you in my home

Mother-in-law used to say you were "after" WW when you took such an interest in her career.

I always defended you.

Remember how you used to act like the district superintendent was "disgusting" b/c he cheated on his wife? You're no better than him.

Frk963

This would make an upstanding and honest man feel guilty and quite the hypocrite. Problem is that a married man that would screw your wife behind your back is none of those things.

You are making a BIG mistake talking to him. He does not give a shit that you were nice to him. He does not give a shit that he was in your house. And he is going to take that communication you just wrote as a sign of how weak you are. He, in your own words, has no intention of not trying to bang your wife some more.

Timetoact

I agree

This would make an upstanding and honest man feel guilty and quite the hypocrite. Problem is that a married man that would screw your wife behind your back is none of those things.

The only thing I care about is whether telling him off will make me feel better and give me some sense of power or control. Still trying to figure that out.