SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I am sorry you have to deal with her EA and chatter. It seems like she maybe starting to rectify with what she is doing or something has happened with the OM. IDNK. With Snapchat, her actions may have gotten out of hand and went physical involving photos and video as Freeme referenced in an earlier post.

Freeme also seems to be correct in that she seems like she is bouncing back and forth trying to maintain a relationship with you and continue the EA. Perhaps she is realizing the cost of the EA and feeling you detach.

For your own health, stop allowing her to inflict more pain. I would tell her you no longer want to hear about the game or the OM until she is ready to stop the EA and work on your marriage. Stop engaging with her.

Keep it real. The 180 is the tool for you to detach. Use the conversation stoppers.

Withdrawal will be hell if and when she is truly trying to stop the EA. Pinning for the other man as an addict does for their fix will be very difficult. It is very similar from an anatomical and biochemical standpoint. Her behavior will be very hard to watch for you. Nothing worse than seeing your wife missing someone else. Perhaps you may need IC or assistance in real life with processing the pain. Do not rule out medical assistance for yourself.

If she gets to this point you may wish to tell her IC/outside help is a must to process her emotions and withdrawal.

If she is served first and is shocked and wonders why or becomes angry you need to prepare yourself for this conversation. You also should identify what you need to continue the marriage and actions you expect from her.

I wish you the best as you journey out from Infidelity.

[This message edited by Ripped62 at 3:57 AM, May 24th (Thursday)]

...there are several factors at play that prevent me from being able to get out of the home much sooner.

wait one, I never said to leave, like the others stated, speak to an attorney before you do that.

This is what I was speaking to:

Do you want the divorce papers being served to her to be a surprise? Yes I do, I hope on some level it breaks through the fog but if not I am fully prepared to follow through and walk the walk if for no other reason than regaining my self respect.

If you are wanting to wake her up, it’s now not in a week. By then they will be planning an in person meeting, honestly I bet they already have.

Yeah the waiting is not a good thing, I suspect they're saying I love you regularly now. She has a sister who went through a bad divorce I am reaching out to, it could blow up in my face but I am going to out her, because she's been gaslighting me and someone is going to have to be here for the mess when I am gone.

I tried to get the full transparency she had offered from her phone last night but she balked again. I know that if they chatted after and about this as she stated this is my best shot at an unfiltered view at what is going on.

I am convinced now the cry was over him not me/us and it's not going to stop. That is absolutely soul crushing and my allergies are wanting to flare up so I'm going to stop here and try to focus on something else for awhile. Bless you all for your sympathetic words, they're truly all thats keeping me afloat right now.

Do what I did. Grab her phone and take it to work with you. I did it when she was in the shower.

Once at work, plug it into a computer and run Dr. Fone on it to recover everything she's deleted. You will need to know her lock PIN before you do this, that's the only negative. Once you can see their conversations, you'll know exactly what is going on.

[This message edited by GuyInColorado at 10:41 AM, May 24th (Thursday)]

Just file for D my man. For gods' sake just file.

Just file for D my man. For gods' sake just file.

^^^^this

File! I did it. It was both liberating and earth shaking for my fWW. I had to D before I could even consider R.

Get out of infidelity on your terms and timeline. You have all you need to know to justify D. You don't really need more.

Hey Deepfeeler, I'm sorry to read this is happening to you. I think you are taking the right steps. It sounds like you are seeing through her excuses for having an EA and rejecting the blameshifting.

Unless I'm missing something you did file and she will be served right? So if you have decided or know that's what's going to happen doing the 180 and working on are where your focus should be at.

If you are trying to shock her out of her fog and attempt R or just leave the option open then I think you could expose and calling her sister is probably a good start there. Is there anyone else she would not want to know about this? Friends?

she called off all their contact outside of the game today or because she realized how badly she hurt me. ( I do know the answer, it's just hard to face.)

She said they had the chat on snapchat this morning but I doubt that's all that was discussed, if at all.

WTF? How fucking dare her! She's not gonna be fucking around on you outside the "game". Well,..except on Snapchat maybe...

And you're okay with this? No. Dude, you need zero tolerance, not a negotiation on how much she screw around on you.

You need to pack her shit in Hefty bags and be tossing them out on the front lawn, kick her to the curb.

That is the only way reality will sink in, if at all. To do otherwise is only prolonging the pain. A quick clean cut hurts the least.

She has a sister who went through a bad divorce I am reaching out to, it could blow up in my face but I am going to out her, because she's been gaslighting me and someone is going to have to be here for the mess when I am gone.

I think this is a good idea. Just do it in a kind way. I want you to know that WW and I are on our way to divorce because she can't/wont stop her affair. I'm telling you this so that you can be there for her when she receives the papers she is going to need your support and I can't be that person for her..... She might need to stay with you for a few days... Whatever just don't trash her... You can say she's having an affair and detail what's going on but don't use words like Whore, slut,...you get the picture. They are sisters and blood is thicker but it would be good to get your side of the story out there now.

Remember talking about divorce doesn't mean it's going to happen. You can stop the process at any time.

[This message edited by Freeme at 6:33 AM, May 25th (Friday)]

What is your desired end result? I am a fool, but I would like to save my marriage but I don't know if I should. The continual lies and half truths .. Can a person truly move forward after that and heal.

Are you done with the marriage? In my head I am but my heart is not fully in compliance.

His goal was reconciliation. Please keep this in mind as you post to assist him. A bit of patience is required. I know we will always have the divorce immediately posts. But, should we not assist him with his stated objectives? Do we really have enough information regarding her EA and his situation to know that divorce and walk is the only way for him to get out of infidelity? Individuals have reconciled and gone on to have great marriages from severe situations. I am sure immediately after D-Day it did not seem possible. Her actions regarding ending the affair, doing the work, and healing the marriage, and his willingness to reconcile are the primary deciding factors regarding divorce or reconciliation IMHO. He has a lot of work and difficult times ahead regardless of which path he walks. They run parallel for some time. I feel we should limit the drama and help him with his stated objectives. We need to be working on getting her out of the EA. She has not had significant consequences, why would she stop her behavior? She is addicted to a game and invested in the EA. Once out, then he will know if she is suitable to reconcile. She will be served in a few days. Her actions will speak loudly after this happens. Please support him as he gains space and makes his decision.

"It ain't over till it's over." - Yogi Berra

I gotta tell you, with how you say she is acting, your best next steps, whether it’s down the path of D or R, are the same:

1) tell her, “I see you have chosen him as your life partner, not me, good luck with your choice”

2) implement THE 180 strategy from The Healing Library and work to detach. No more discussions about anything. Implement NC with her unless it’s about kids or finance

3) tell the lawyer to serve the papers

4) expose to everyone in her family

I’m sorry, she is not Remorseful as she says, so you need to focus on you and your kids.

If she tries to interact and discuss tell her you are no longer interested in pursuing a marriage with her emotionally involved with someone else.

If she say she’ll cut him off tell her that’s fine but that doesn’t automatically bring you back to the relationship. She is now at square one with you and if she is interested in being with you she has to get into IC and figure what caused her to cheat on you (and step one will be to admit she’s cheating on you)

Then tell her you are proceeding with a divorce. If she wants to try and court you after it, well that’s her choice, but proving she’s a safe Partner will be at the top of the list for you to consider interacting with her ever again.

I hope you can consider this course of action and the advice others have given you here. Giving her any latitude makes her feel she has a chance to continue to have her cake and eat it to.

Don’t let her do it.

If you want a chance at R, you have to show her you mean business. I know it’s hard. But it’s true.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 1:03 PM, May 24th (Thursday)]

Today she concede it got out of hand and she never meant any malice toward me and said she would like to go to couples counseling. She has been so back and forth and still will not be transparent with the phone so I'm really not buying in.

I did however get an appointment setup for this Saturday at noon. I was surprised they were able to get us in on a holiday weekend. I know she is fearing a cease and desist contact order from the Dr. but I'm in serious doubt she would or could follow through. In the back of my head I half expect to go in and she just intentionally humiliates me.

I'm a little fuzzy on how to walk this path, do I stay in 180 actually I think that answer is a resounding yes. Her bf is away till Monday so I'm not sure this isn't just a time killer for her. She even stated that he called this morning and they had a mundane talk about a shopping mall built on an old mine in Belgium.. ( after yesterday saying they stopped outside of game comms...) it's just retarded at this point I feel like I have a third child that's losing their mind and taking me along for the ride.

I have no illusions, R from here is a Mt. Everest climb seemingly w no gear or tackle. Her sister never got back to me but I did speak at length to her brother whose been through the wringer with worse situations than mine. He was supportive and agreed with my handling of her ( ultimatums bring out her crazy even when waters are calm) mostly I advised I was on the divorce route, I wanted to save our marriage but was getting no concessions from her and simply wasn't going to continue down this path and she is going to need someone to give her some support and occasional reality check.

When she came home and said she wanted to seek couples counseling I wondered if he spoke to her, but I highly doubt that given his history and her demeanor around being lectured etc...

GuyinColorado I don't have her pin and facial recognition needed to open her phone or believe me I would have, at this point that's a minor insignificant infraction.

No doubt tomorrow will be another flip, but I'll be another day into detaching and 3-4 more articles into the healing library.

It's amazing what you have created here and I cannot thank all of you enough for taking the time to advise and support me through this and all of the others looking to make sense of the situations they have found themselves in. <3

Couples counseling is a waste of time, money and effort for you at this point in dealing with your wife's infidelity.

Don't go.

DF, couples counseling is for people to work on marriage issues. This isn't a marriage issue. She and you both need IC with a professional that understands infidelity.

There's not an exercise you can do to win her back. Stop playing the 'pick me dance'. I'm not trying to be harsh and I'm sorry.

Keep up on the 180. You can do this.

DeepFeeler,

I'm not sure what the 100 percent correct path is but I would at least consider telling her directly

1) She was the one who destroyed this M with her Emotional Affair tell her that's what it is and say it a couple times so she has to hear it.

2) If she wants to be in this M she has to agree to go full NC and quit playing the game. She has to write a NC letter (email or whatever) and give 100 percent access to all her stuff.

3) If she Admits that she had an Emotional Affair (spelling it out again as opposed to the abbreviation for empahsis) and she writes and follows through with the NC you will consider going to MC.

I'm unsure if the MC is something you want right now. I think she's really likely to blame you for everything and if you get a bad MC he/she could reinforce her wayward thinking. It might work out but I wouldn't risk it. I'm not the best source of info on this particular topic though so hopefully, someone with more experience will chime in.

My MC from when I was married (IC for awhile after) told me that if she knew that my STBXWW was being unfaithful she would have kicked her out until she had at least dozen IC sessions, admitted to the affair, and written a NC letter (I didn't know then either).

Oh and for my money I think what Stevesn is suggesting is even better than what I just did. I would recommend that first than what I'm saying if you don't want to go through with it or aren't ready for some reason. I do think it would be best for you to use his method.

[This message edited by MrMagnolia at 7:58 PM, May 24th (Thursday)]

Couples counseling is a waste of time, money and effort for you at this point in dealing with your wife's infidelity.

Don't go.

^^^^^^^^^^

Not a fan of counseling, JMO but it’s a waste of time while WW is in active A. If she is in contact with OM she is in A.(PERIOD). Does the counselor specialize in infidelity?

She isn’t R material as far as I’m concerned, you need to stay the course. She is not remorseful, in daily contact with AP still, no transparency... Kepp the 180 up, she is seeing you detach and move away, emotionally, and trying to keep both her worlds in revolution.

Stop doing stuff for her, if she wanted counseling, SHE should have set it up. It appears to me like you’re grasping, stop, I FULLY understand but you cannot fix this, you cannot fix her. She has to.

This is the point you start developing your requirements for R. What do YOU need to R? Others much smarter than me can guide you, continue reading in the Healing Library. At a minimum FULL transparency to ALL electronics, PWs and pins, NC and QUIT the game.

Do not go to marriage counselling. Both parties have to want to improve the marriage and be willing to be open and honest. That is why counselling is a waste of time and money while infidelity is still a factor.

I cannot get understand how you make a distinction between communication in or outside the game. It is still a connection that they share. It is still cheating when she is spending more time with him than you.

She is addicted to the game and her OM. Do you think it makes a difference to an alcoholic if they drink inside the house or outside

All games need to stop for now. She needs to focus 100% on her family. But of course you know that is impossible.

I am sorry to say that D is probably the only way out for you.

Deep Feeler, have you thought of finding out who he is and gathering info on social media?

He could be married or in a relationship and you can contact the other half.

I know the problem is your wife and not him, but if he drops her like a hot potato after you expose him to the wife/girlfriend/parents of this POSSOM, she should go to counseling.

I echo what others have said about MC in this case. I get it that you have an appointment and you are going to go. But you will see that this is not a marriage problem, this is an individual problem. There are no issues in the marriage that either caused her betrayals or caused her deep brokenness.

I hope your MC is experienced and savvy enough to suggest no more MC sessions unless and until your WW has completed enough IC to be honest, authentic, clear about her accountabilities, and safe.

Please cancel the MC it's a waste of money while she is still in the affair and could even be detrimental to you if you get a bad one. Here's the thing. you might get a good MC that refuses to work with you until your WW gives up the game but... more than likely you will be given one where your WW is able to blameshift, lie, and spend the whole session blaming you for problems while making her "game" as innocent as pong. The truth is you can't fix the marriage while you WW is still in the affair. I'd go to her right now and tell her that you cancelled the session that you see no reason to see a MC while she is still having an Affair.

Then I would implement Stevens plan above. What you are doing right now is not working and is just prolonging your pain. Your goal is to get out of infidelity your WW goal is to cake eat. In reading your thread I don't see signs that she wants a divorce what she wants is to keep you and her OM. That's not the type of marriage you want and you can't get the marriage you want until she is 100% in.

Your WW seems to be grasping at straws to keep the marriage and her affair going. The MC is a genius stroke on her part. A professional "working" with you on the marriage should give her a few months...right? If you read this site for an extended amount of time you will see WW have no problem lying, blame shifting, manipulating MC while still in the affair for months even years...The movie date, the seduction, the NC, the NC again, and now the MC these are just ploys to keep the game going...she likes games.

She needs to understand this is not a game. The threat of divorce is real and happening.

Here's the thing with her OM. It's a fantasy. ...you don't know anything about OM so there could easily be a hundred things that make a real relationship with him impossible (location, his kids, your kids, his wife,...). The best she can hope for is to keep the "fake one going" and feed that addiction.

Follow Stevens plan. She will see that she only has one option if she wants to stay in the marriage. Do not stop the divorce process until you are sure she is 100% in for reconcile.

I don't think this marriage is doomed but I do think you are setting yourself up for more and more pain by letting her feed your crumbs of hope. Remember you can stop the divorce process at any time.

Pull those phone records and see how often they really do talk/text and use that anger to move forward. Tell her you've canceled Marriage counseling and tell her she need to go to IC because her fantasy game/life is killing her real marriage.

Hard 180.

agreed with my handling of her ( ultimatums bring out her crazy even when waters are calm)

Also, you don't have to tell her about the divorce as an ultimatum. Bigger (a huge - no pun intended) writer on these strings often advises to word things as follows... Let her know she is welcome to call/text/email and play her fantasy game 24/7 with OM. She's welcome to visit him and whatever else she feels she needs to do with OM to make her happy but that she can't do it as your wife. That you can't fix this marriage alone and you can't fix it while she is involved with OM. Let her know this is not an ultimatum that you are moving forward with getting yourself out of infidelity for your own well being. If she goes crazy over ultimatums just word it differently - you are not telling her she HAS to go NC you are telling her to go ahead with what she wants but that you know the marriage isn't going to work with three people in it so you are going forward with what you need to do.

[This message edited by Freeme at 8:22 AM, May 25th (Friday)]