SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

In the last few weeks I became aware of my wife becoming increasingly secretive with her phone and frequent unwarranted irritation with me sometimes when I'd come home a little early or while she was at her PC. I knew something was afoot and tried for weeks to ask what was bugging her or if something had happened or was wrong. Always a no and sometimes irritation at my having asked 2-3 times in the course of a 2-4 hour evening. It was obvious something was wrong, so I would ask.

After asking for a couple of weeks and getting nowhere except making her mad. I fought with the idea of snooping on her PC, I spent days going over this and making myself sick over it, I actually have knowledge around this by trade, I do not take the use of doing something like that lightly. Two wrongs not making a right... After about 6 days I convinced myself it was about my marriage and if there was anyway to save it I had to know what was happening. We have 2 children (9 and 11) and fifteen years of marriage.

Well I got what I was looking for and what I deserved for snooping all in one. She had been interacting with men in an online world (Second Life) and the logs went back 3 months or so. She had "boyfriends" in the game and she discussed very real things about family, career, and how unresponsive her husband was and while they were cybering one time, how I was right in the room, but I would have to remove my headphones and turn around to even notice. It was equally demoralizing, soul crushing and erotic... I read the game logs (3+ months worth) but most of the intimacy and concerning discussion was between 2 guys in particular.

One it was obvious had gotten twisted up emotionally over her and had stated he needed it all to just be about the game, they needed to look into polyamory or just wait and hope circumstances could bring them together.

My wife did state # 1 was her preference to keep it in game. He subsequently quit the game and didn't come back I would later learn. So she picked up the second "boyfriend".

Their discussions centered more around real life than the previous one, bringing myself and kids into their discussions regularly and her career, her daily comings and goings in addition to the cybering these conversations sometimes going on for several hours, sometimes entire days while I was at work and you could see the gaps where, when the kids and I are home there would be chat log gaps in her responses and so forth.

Then toward the end, within a couple of days of me catching up on all the logs. They mentioned a phone discussion in which his voice had given her a "real physical response". This guy is 20 years her junior and live’s in Belgium. I confronted her about it all, calmly telling her I just needed the truth.

This conversation initially happened on the phone and when she started lying I told her to call back when she was ready to tell the truth and hung up. She called back and we talked and agreed we would talk when she got home from taking our daughter to a ballet class. Before she made it home, I picked 5 critical questions I could substantiate the answers to, from the logs. (Those of you wanting to call me an ass for snooping, feel free, it’s nothing compared to what I have already put myself through over it) I wanted her to answer truthfully they were, if she communicated about our family, myself or the kids, if she discussed her personal details around work, if they had talked on the phone and if she was emotionally vested in him. In conversation they had professed how devastated they would be if they could no longer hang out and talk/chat if something changed in his circumstances or hers, so that seemed obvious to me.

I was blindsided by all this and reeling I’ve had that awful feeling of horrible loss/betrayal in my gut for 2 weeks now and I can’t shake it.

So when she arrived home and we made some time we talked a bit and I asked the questions, she lied on every single one of them, then I told her I knew better each time and she admitted it. I told her the cybering wasn’t really an issue, it was the being blindsided by it all, knowing she is talking about very real things. She claimed it was a game to her and it was compartmentalized, which I asked if spilling into voice chat and texting outside of the game was what she considered compartmentalizing.

She made and offered no concessions and I stated I would like the voice chat to stop, to which she stated they were now friends and that she’s a grown woman and can have friends if she wanted, I had no say in it. ... another long discussion about how friends don’t cyber (maybe I’m old fashioned 46yo).

To shorten it a bit I kept logging all activity for 5 additional days to see how it all went. She went into the game told him I had found them out and was snooping on her and to be careful about what was said and then she gave him my in game character names (more loyalty to a 3 week cyber fling than a 15yr marriage). He stated something to the effect of how he hoped all of their voice chat and exchanges weren’t discovered.. then I wanted the phone.

I came clean on all of the logging and subsequently stopped all of it which is almost driving me nuts because I feel like I’m being played for a fool. I have started wearing a shirt to bed, my self esteem is devastated and I’m not like that.. or never have been before. She still makes and sometimes schedules time to hang out with him and includes me in if they have talked on the phone and what about which is normally boring day to day talks, but in my head how can I believe it and why wouldn’t she have at least stopped the phone conversations if she knew it was twisting me up?

I almost feel like a physical affair would have been less impacting, though I’m sure its as bad or worse.

Please drop thoughts and opinions... I feel like I’m bleeding years off my life stressing over all of this. I know better than to demand she stop that’s like a toddler situation she will just do it more or possibly with more. I realize she could have went to TinDr or something if she wanted to cheat in real life, but this is just as insidious if not in deed, in how the mind runs away and overthinks things.. each clack of the KB either work, e-mail or game is all game and always him in my mind now and I have never doubted my wife in this way and I NEED to find a way back to trust. She turned it all around somehow blaming me for inattention intellectually and I conceded and am making efforts there but she doesn’t want the attention it annoys her and when I have weak days she gets mad for kicking the dead horse “we already talked about this.. and then she gets mad..” My heart, gut and mind are in a tug of war with no end in site.. does it sound like it’s over or am I just driving myself insane over it and it’s no big deal?

...she stated they were now friends and that she’s a grown woman and can have friends if she wanted, I had no say in it....

Well, she is a grown woman and can have whatever friends she wants. That said, you are a grown man and are free to decide you don't want to be married to a lying cheat.

See an attorney and find out where you stand. Then give some thought as to whether you want to keep putting up with this childishness for the rest of your life. Cheaters don't think you mean business... until you do.

Stop apologizing for investigating the truth about YOUR life!!! You were not snooping. If you suspected your daughter was communicating with a predator online, would you hack her computer to learn the truth? Would this be snooping? No. You had good reason to investigate. Your wife’s cyber affair has a direct impact on your life and your children’s lives.

Please take the time to read the healing library. You have some very errant ideas about infidelity and boundaries within a marriage.

You’re wife is correct. She’s a grown woman and can choose her own friends and affair partners...just like you are a grown man and can choose whether you continue to live in a marriage with another man in it.

My H’s OW tried the same line of thinking “She can’t tell you who to be friends with!” And then I told him I was divorcing him. Cake-eating suddenly came to an abrupt halt. He suddenly received a reality check and saw the cost of his choices.

I could go on with tons more advice - but I’ll wait until you do some reading here. (The healing library is in the yellow box above Dr Phil to the left). She is cheating on you and betraying you and her family. This will not stop without you drawing a hard line around your boundaries...you don’t have to tolerate this disrespect.

Dear DeepFeeler,

I’m sorry you found yourself (like many of us) betrayed by the one you have vowed to love. Your wife has passed the deceitful stage by defiantly betraying you in full view. She has perceived you as a very weak husband that refuses to show strength. You have allowed her to pursue the relationship in full sight without any repercussions. She is continually administering pain, and you have agreed to accept it.

It is my thought that your wife MUST stop all forms of communication with that person. There might be a need to issue some ultimatums. Please remember, never make any ultimatums unless you are willing to carry them out to the fullest degree. Also, it would be an good idea to seek Marriage Counseling ASAP.

You will hear from some very wonderful people on this forum that has been where you are. Please listen to their recommendations and ask questions. They will give you some valuable information.

Best, Big heart

Skip the marriage counselling - Cheaters cheat because they are selfish. The marriage did not cause this. She had valid options if she was unhappy with the marriage. No. She needs individual counselling to figure out why she feels entitled to bring this man into your marriage. Once that is dealt with, marriage counselling can be used to repair the damage done to the marriage. But it’s useless while she is actively engaged in cheating.

Thank all of you for your replies, it helps just to hear I'm not overreacting. I don't want to throw away 15 years over this but I also need the dynamic to change.

Coming to terms I was more deeply into her than her into me was rough but BigHeart you hit a nail dead on the head, that I felt and on some level know.

She has perceived you as a very weak husband that refuses to show strength.

That said I am a big man at 6' 265+ so I am always conscious of not being intimidating or hostile/overbearring especially to my wife. Not that I haven't wanted to be.

I'm a live and let live minded person. If she has adventurous endeavors or things she wants to experience I'm good with that within limits. I just need honesty, unedited full forthcoming honesty with no regard for pain or issues.

We had a good discussion this morning after we watched the royal wedding w our kids at an unholy hour of the morning. I actually went to another room to finish because she was in a chat with her sisters on the phone about the wedding. My mind suspected otherwise and I had a bout of "allergies" I didn't want observed.

I wrote a calm email and linked two articles I implored her to read because I don't think she accepts it as infidelity of any sort. Since they don't cyber on their voice chats. Stating I am willing to put in the work to make things better and fix this but it has to be both of us.

She actually read it and was replying, then before sending .. had to get on Second Life where guess who was there.. I still don't have my reply. So priorities are crystal clear here and I feel like I'm on an emotional merry go round and I know one thing about myself. If this continues I will break and walk away. I won't threaten, I'm not going to deal with the drama and baggage of a lawyer. I will find a place to go short term and walk.

As much as I don't want to, thats where this is quickly going.

I'm headed to the healing library because I am rapidly seeing this is likely not going to be resolved and I need to start getting myself back together and planning my move forward alone. We're in a no fault state and there is no taking children from their mothers in even much more deplorable conditions .. I feel my path forward becoming much clearer by the day.. and it's anguish and heartbreak. I don't think I'll ever open up again like I did with her. Sorry for punctuation and typos if any..

She's cheating and is very adamant that it's going to continue.

You are beating yourself up for snooping??? Geeze man cmon!!!

Jump into MC with an active affair going on? Extremely weak

With your current mindset you have set yourself up for a long hard stay in limbo hell.

You need to wake up.

The only one who's going to keep you where you are is you.

Expose and file. That will snap her out of this fog of stupidity she’s in.

[This message edited by CincyKid at 12:36 PM, May 19th (Saturday)]

Litmus Test on cheating

If you don’t say it or do it in front of your spouse or partner, it’s b/c it is wrong and the cheater knows it.

That is why it is cheating.

Her talking to another guy online is NOT cheating UNTIL it becomes an emotional connection and/or the discussion becomes too personal or sexual. And it becomes wrong when it overtakes your life and it becomes addictive and/or an obsession. You chat with someone about a common interest or hobby or a book you read. Basic general conversation is ok.

When it crosses the boundaries or becomes secretive or hidden from your spouse or family - it no longer a platonic healthy friendship between two people.

She has been cheating. If it meant “nothing” she would have stopped when it crossed the line. She has an “addiction” and that is what you are facing. An emotional Affair has been occurring unfortunately.

Please be sure to pass this information on to your wife. She needs to face it.

DeepFeeler:

Sorry you find yourself here man. We have all been there. Please read the healing library, and specifically read and implement the 180, a tactic that allows you to detach from your WW so that you can heal. In practice it sometimes helps the WW to snap out of the fog. Treat your WW as an annoying neighbor and ignore everything but discussions about finance and child matters.

The motto here is take the advice you can use and leave the rest. Take care of yourself. Eat healthy, exercise, stay away from alcohol, and try and get regular sleep, with aids if necessary. You have to decide how much you can tolerate.

The sooner you take control of your situation, the sooner you will get out of infidelity one way or another. And remember, you did nothing in your marriage to make your WW have an EA. It is totally her doing. Do not let her blame anything in the M for her terrible decisions. Strength to you moving forward.

I think the other advice you’ve been given is spot on. Your WW will not snap out of it unless there are consequences. You have to decide what you are willing to do. Sometimes seeing an attorney and filing for D will shake up a wayward enough to bring them back.. the added plus in this action is it puts you back in control of the situation. You can always stop the D proceedings if your WW demonstrates she is truly remorseful.

You sound like a kind man who is trying to do the right thing by his W and not be seen as overly controlling. But your WW is abusing your kind nature and rubbing it in your face.

Keep strengthening your resolve because, with her reaction, you are going to have to make the choice real for her. She has deflected your concerns and shifted the focus away from her to you as being the problematic partner.

Read Dr. Shirley Glass's book "Not Just Friends". Glass uses the analogy of windows and walls to explain the corrosiveness of the claim of "we are just friends". Here relationship with this dude has created a window into your M where there should be a wall. The claim of "we are just friends" doesn't build intimacy between the tow of you, it erodes it.

Certainly she is the one that needs to see that, needs to read the book. I suggest you read to arm yourself with knowledge.

Serve her with D papers. Tell her she has until the D is final to convince you to stop it.

And be prepared for her to demonize to to anyone that will listen, and counter it with facts and evidence to anyone she tells.

Expose, expose, expose, expose. To everyone you two have in common. Your family, her family, adult children.

Exposure is one of the main things that helps kill an A.

I'm fairly sure no one here is going to jump on your case for "snooping." To one degree or another, this is how we all find out. I know it was in my case. Very rarely do cheaters simply confess out of the blue, although that's what my wife said she was going to do if I hadn't found out sooner.

I think on the internet in general, we are unfortunately used to getting flamed over stupid things but this is a very special place, a good place where you can always count on people to support you and who have gone through the same as you.

Don't be sorry for how you found out. She would not have made efforts to lie and hide it from you if she wasn't really doing anything wrong.

You have done absolutely nothing wrong. You are trying to protect and save your marriage. There is nothing wrong in that.

The truth is she will do whatever she wants as long as she has no fear of losing you. And perhaps having these virtual relationships have become more important to her than anyone including her husband and kids.

So, you have to find that inner strength to fight for what you want. You deserve a wife who is emotionally attached in a romantic way to only you. You need to take control in order to make that happen.

The path to Reconciliation is the same as the path to Divorce. They both start with taking control of your life and relationship.

And how you do that is make an appointment with a divorce attorney. Go meet with them and learn the details and confirm what you know already about how D works where you live. Then ask them to prepare papers to be served at your command. It will cost something but if your M is worth it to you then you’ll spend the money.

Then go home and tell your wife you are not happy with the way your relationship is going. That you want to have an exclusive and romantic relationship with her, your wife, but that can’t happen while she’s involved with these other men.

Then I would tell her she can have emotional affairs with other men, BUT NOT AS YOUR WIFE. And if that’s what she wants and needs to be happy, then you will let her go to find her happiness. And you will go and find your happiness.

Then tell her that, if she wants you, then she will give up all online communications because she can no longer be trusted with them. If she can’t do that, then you will take actions to get out of her infidelity. If she can, and wants to work on the marriage with you in therapy, then you are willing to do that.

It is her choice.

Give her a day to make it. Then start to take action if she either gives no response or says she can’t do that.

Then move on with it. Have heard served. Read THE 180 and implement it, helping you detach. If she’s not ALL IN to the marriage then she no longer deserves any benefit from it or from you.

I hope she realizes what she’s losing my friend. You deserve a wife that is dedicated to you as you are to her. Dont settle for anything less.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 1:34 PM, May 19th (Saturday)]

Thank you I thought today was going to be different and maybe progress would be made in some manner. I'm realizing now that won't be the case.

Your responses have been helpful in allowing me to see through fresh unbiased eyes for the most part.

I feel like such a fool/tool and have a lot to come to terms with about and within myself.Seeing she has been doing the same thing all morning with him.

I am thinking the "she has an addiction/obsession" that was mentioned. This sounds accurate. Despite the ongoing issues she still is spending the day logged in and chatting with him. Despite my desire to yank the monitor and smash it then going to the phone for the same. I am powerless until she comes to terms with what she is doing. I am just not sure I'll be around to see it. I'm either going to stroke out over this or "go out for milk".

Please reread my post and the others here again.

You are not powerless!

You hold the cards. Go and do what I and others have said. No one is saying it is easy, but you need to take control of the situation.

She may not come along with you, but you are going to remove yourself from her infidelity, one way or another.

It’s important you read THE 180 from the Healing Library here and implement it. Only discuss the kids or finance. Nothing else.

And tell her what I said above. She can talk to him and others in an emotional way all she wants, JUST NOT AS YOUR WIFE.

Let her know you’ll be taking steps to get out of this toxic relationship and move on toward a happy life.

If she decides she wants to work on things then you can stop the D process at any time, but for now, she is giving her heart to others and you should not stand for it.

One last thing. I have lots of friends. I have women friends. But I never talk to them in an emotional or romantic way.

And I make sure they do not detract from tim I spend with my W. If they impinged on that, they would no longer be my friends.

What your WW is doing is unhealthy to your relationship. You have the power to not accept that. You have the power to tell her you will no longer stand for it.

You need to come first in her romantic life. First, last and in the middle. You’ll do the same for her, but not if it’s non-reciprocated.

Take care.

Ask her if it is alright if you get a female friend to talk with and game with. That you may have found one in Australia (or a place of your choosing) that you could become friends with. So while she is talking with him you can talk with her. If she totally agrees then you may have a problem. You don't fight a fire with a water pistol. You get a hose. One other thing. You two should take the time you are playing games on the computer and use it playing with each other. I can't believe the number of marriages that is ruined because a spouse rather play at a sport or electronic game than spend time and give attention to their spouse. I do wish you well.

[This message edited by anoldlion at 2:08 PM, May 19th (Saturday)]

My WH's behavior started online during year 15 of our marriage. For him, it was all about escaping real life stress.

This online fantasy life escalated into an addiction. Eventually, the addiction crossed over into the real world, with real-life sex.

You have every right to demand your wife stop placing higher value on her cyber life than on her husband, her children, her family.

This is cheating. Emotional affairs are just as devastating as physical ones. It is your call how much you will tolerate but don’t fool yourself that this can’t escalate. Lots of “friendships”end up as PAs.

You indeed have power. You get to choose how you respond to this behaviour. You get to decide your own future. I chose to act with integrity and live authentically. I chose a life free of betrayal, secrets and infidelity. I don't regret that for a second.

You can choose the same thing. Grab the reins and lead your own future.