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We see threads on SI where couples D after attempting R, and others where appears to succeed. In both cases, the attempts of the WW to "explain" the A and the sex sound like gibberish to the BH. The difference resides in the mysterious matters of the heart. In situations where R is successful, it is because, in his heart, the BH believes that the WW's love for him is true. He believes because she proves it with her actions, but by "actions" I don't mean a checklist of specific deeds; rather, I mean the many ways big and small she demonstrates she loves and cares for him.

What I hear from you, bottom line, is that in your heart you don't believe your WW's love for you is true. Without this belief, it would be impossible for you to go into R both feet in.

You may be right. We don't know either of you so we have no way of judging that. The one thing I would suggest you consider, however, is why she is still in the marriage. If you really have been treating her with the degree of hostility and anger that you describe, it seems you would have driven her away by now, unless she really does love you. It's possible, but the only way you'd find out is to open your heart to her, which if course I realize you are reluctant to do.

Tex,

If you haven't been in IC, you really need to go.

...I always wanted her to be my one...what a fool for believe she was...what a shame for me falling for her...what guilt I have for not leaving here long ago

I literally just got done with my IC session where we talked about the "Shame Monster". Shame is something I struggle with personally and it does nothing for you. NOTHING. I feel hokey saying this to someone with the screen name 'Texashunter' but seriously, you've gotta practice some self compassion. You have to go easy on yourself and get that negative talk out of your head. You wanted her to be your one and you weren't a fool at all!! You made the best decision you could at the time with all the information you had at the time and man, that's beautiful. Most people want to find "The One" to share a life with and you went out there and did that. You were vulnerable to her and to your relationship and you should be proud of yourself for that. No shame, no guilt, no foolishness.

Please, please, please go to IC. And start getting that negative mojo out of your head. Negative mojo will make your dick shrink...

Let me start by saying I don't know whether D or R is your best option. Let me also say I hope you take my whole post to be observation and support, not criticism. Also, this whole post is JMO.

I think that you've given up your power and taken on a heavy Victim role in a Drama Triangle.

These things you've said especially bother me:

If our marriage was so bad I always told her to give me a D and not screw our family.

What kept you from understanding that you can decide to D, too?

but her bitch of a AP was just better

But he's not - they ALWAYS affair down. If you D because you think he's better, you'll still think he's better after you D, and you'll till be swimming in shit.

I urge you to first reacquaint yourself with your strengths, your ability to love, and your lovable-ness. Then decide to R or D.

I’ve been defeated all the way around.

All you've done is make some choices that didn't work out - due to factors beyond your control.

You can get out of infidelity by D'ing, but infidelity seems like a 2ndary problem right now. The big payoff for you is to realize that you're capable, loving, and lovable, that you have the power necessary to make choices for yourself, and that you have the power to make a good life for yourself and your kids.

Yes, your W hurt you terribly, but your core is strong. Now you have to decide to like yourself enough to allow you to heal.

I know you're in pain ... but you're not doomed to hell on earth. Being betrayed happens to the best of us. It's not about us - it's about the betrayers. You can hold your head high even though your W cheated on you.

Because you don't see your life this way at this point, I urge you to find a good IC to help you get out of your awful, excruciating funk.

Again, reacquaint yourself with your strengths. See that you're loving, lovable, and capable. Figure out what you want. Then the decision between D and R will come from strength. Then the decision will put you on a path to a life worth living.

BTW, the quote from your W is something a good candidate for R would say. She could be faking it, but if she's genuine, R is possible for you - if that's what you want.

Find a good IC, TH. Tell him/her that you feel like shit and want to feel like a human being again. Ask the IC if s/he can help with that. When you find one who thinks s/he can, go for it.

[This message edited by sisoon at 1:47 PM, May 30th (Wednesday)]

I think that you've given up your power and taken on a heavy Victim role in a Drama Triangle.

Dead nuts on, Sisoon.

TH, please look into IC, and do a little reading on the Karpman Drama Triangle. You appear to be stuck in the victim quadrant, as Sisoon noted.

As a victim it appears you’re looking for your wife, or posters on here, to be your rescuer. Neither your wife, nor we can be your rescuer. Your IC cannot be your rescuer, either, should you decide to attend. The only person that can help you, your life, andhow you view your marriage is, wait for it... you.

I’m not saying that your wife doesn’t have to do heavy lifting; however, you cannot expect her to just do eveything. Only a victim, continually, constantly feeling sorry for his self would expect that. In fact, and just a hunch... but, I suspect that her apparently half-assed attempts, when viewed by someone out of the shame-cycle mentioned by Makesmewannapuke, and the victim quadrant noted by Sisoon, aren’t as half-assed as you’re making them out to be.

[This message edited by Drumstick at 3:58 PM, May 30th (Wednesday)]

I would have had a desk full of the same type of letters you WW sent you had I not trashed them as soon as I got them.

Same thing. "He meant nothing. The sex acts we did were degrading to me and I can see that clearly now. You are the one i love. Things can be better than ever."

What would you expect her to say? The rare WW wife who posts that the sex with her AP was better basically gets torched here. What is the upside of telling you. The hard facts are she actually got on a plane and flew to him and made videos!

In my case my EXWW was also desperate to try to save the marriage. I was the pottery barn item she broke and damned if she want going to fix it. But she couldn't fix me. The posters are correct that the BS has to fix themselves. But sometime things are just to broke to fix. I was.

I was also like you in that I never saw her the same. I really tried, but I just couldn't. I would wake up everyday and say you are going to treat her like you did before this whole thing. But I couldn't. I wasn't terrible to her after the first year, but I couldn't tell her I loved her, couldn't celebrated anniversaries, and really couldn't bring myself to hold her hand in public. I still thought of terrible things to say to her her, but I kept them to myself. I knew she was hurting, so why hurt her more with caustic words. The thoughts however were torture to me and never went away.

But at some point you will either have to let these thoughts go, or recognize that you cant live with your guts all twisted up and anger in your heart.

I ended up divorcing her not because i didn't love her, but because I did and couldn't stand myself for treating her like an object anymore.

It is ok to wait and see if the feelings return, but if they don't its not fair to either of you to stay in a marriage full of hate.

Any and every time that we feel shame, it exists because we allow it. Not cause it, allow it.

This is how healing is truly an inside job.

It is very difficult for me to go back years to where other people are currently. I don't always have the time or energy to explain that the world will do shit to you, and sometimes it will be ugly painful. But how you work through it and come out on the other side is a choice and reflects the strength and determination of the person recovering.

R or D, it does not natter: the recovery is on the individual who is hurt. Will you drown in pain and suffering forever, permanently seeing yourself as a victim, furious at the world? Or will you fight to love yourself as the beautiful human being that you absolutely are, refusing to accept any shame or label, celebrating your luck in getting to breathe the air, feel the sun, drink in the rain, and live another day? Which one? Who do you want to be? What will you do with this precious life?

You've been hit. Are you staying down? Or getting back up?

Shame in who we are is never caused or justified, it exists when it is accepted. And I, for one, will not accept shame. The one thing that infidelity gave me was self-worth, oddly enough. Let infidelity give you that gift, too. It does not come from marriage, success, beauty, wealth or luck; it comes from inside you, where you value all that you are lucky enough to be, and make peace--true peace--with all that you are not. Give yourself that gift. No WS or future spouse can ever give it to you. It is a gift that you can only give yourself, and nothing can take it away.

Best wishes to all who struggle.

They were very dark days for me and I do not envy the journey, but it gets better when you work on you, not on the marriage. Peace comes from you.

Hey TH, I wish we could sit and talk over a nice cold iced tea.

I hear your pain, and I understand it. My fWW almost got on the plane. Luckily for us I caught her first, and she did not. But in the end I found out this was not the first time her issues made her stray.

Here is what I know now from my experience, and I hope it helps you. There is an old saying, "don't look in the rear view mirror unless you want to go that way." And honestly, you don't. D or R, you are better off living in the moment rather than looking back all the time. Look what it is doing to you now.

The best advice I have for anyone in our shoes is live in the moment. You can kill yourself looking backward, but you cannot change what happened, and knowing the gory details can leave scars that are not needed. Concentrate on what is going on now. The other thing I can say is to do what she should have...leave other people out of your marriage. Concentrate on your WW and your kids. The OM was a fantasy anyway, and not real (yea, I know his physical presence was real, but her view of him was all fantasy, a mirror of her insecurities. That is all he was.) You will not heal as long as he takes up space in your head and your family. You may have to force yourself not to think of him. When he enters your head, force yourself to go someplace peaceful in your head, a deerstand, or peaceful river that you have been to. Force him out. (never focus on revenge that you cannot have, it is never productive, focus on peace and strength)

Decide what you need from her. Communicate it clearly. Concentrate on her. Then hold her accountable. Be decisive, take control of your family and your future. The past is in the past, let it die.

You will be amazed how you will change if you focus on living now, and taking control of your family. No matter the outcome, you will feel stronger and more centered if you leave the past in the past.

It may have been mentioned earlier in the thread but sometimes the journey is more fun than the destination. Weeks of build up to mediocre sex. But mediocre sex is better than no sex.

Think about all the logistical planning, the when and where the excited texts, flight reservations, hotel, what to wear, 100s of secret details can build up the excitement to make the act even if it ends up being WallyWorld instead of Disneyland worthwhile at the time.

Hindsight is 20-20

No it does not make sense. Other things she did.

1 was going to meet him in Vegas but his wife caught him.

2. Continued to watch the videos they made and used them while pleasing yourself.

3. For the most part denying you for 18 months.

4. Villianizing you for this period of time.

You need to stop debating and start dealing and accepting.