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Sum, it doesn't matter how your WW interprets the 180. It's not about her or affecting her behavior. The 180 is for you. It's about detaching from her so that you can get to a place where you can make an informed decision based on the facts and not hopium or codependency where you think you have a chance because you've been doing all the work for her and forcing her to comply when she'd rather not. Yes, that includes things like accepting her anger over having to be transparent as valid and accepting her anger over you moving on after being discarded as valid and fair play.

Let her think you're angry. Hell, ANYONE would be angry in your shoes. If you were pulling back out of anger, that would be a consequence of her years of cheating. Let her experience that consequence and stop yourself from caring about what she thinks of you or wanting to run in and rescue her from the consequences of her choices.

What's the worst that could happen? She cheats because you seem cold and angry because of her cheating? That she wants to separate again? Separation and divorce is by far not the worst outcome for you. Living in a marriage where she keeps repeating the cycle of EA, separation, trying on someone new, then coming back and blaming you for it all IS the worst outcome. You have nothing to lose by focusing on yourself.

So the WW has been doing some work. She’s been reading and educating herself on how to help me. Great news right?

As you all know be careful what you wish for. Today out of no where she starts opening up. She started by telling me things were more graphic in their texting sexually. Like saying things they wanted to do to each other. I was honestly relieved because I knew it had been. I was glad she told me.

Again, you guys know what happened next. She admitted to meeting him 3 times. First time in Walmart parking lot and nothing happened not even a hug. The next time was in gym parking lot. They made out and performed oral sex on each other. The last time was again in Walmart parking lot and they kissed. It was dark the time they messed around at the gym so they did more is what she said. The oral sex stuff was about 2 weeks before I caught her. She went into painful details about it because I told her I needed to know.

Sometimes I’m indifferent to this news and others I want to scream. I guess I knew but knowing it and really knowing it are different.

Then it’s so fucked up because on one hand she told me the truth which is a huge thing, I mean I can’t believe she did it. At the same time that “truth” is something that I might not be able to forgive.

I made a point to stay calm so not to push her back into lying. Encouraged her to get anything of her chest. She said that was all of it and she felt good to finally tell me.

So, chances there is more us pretty high correct? Or since she came to this on her own does it help convince that it might be the truth?

Where do I go from here? Not asking about D or R but what’s my steps? Stick to 180 I know but anything else?

Sum,

Normally, cheaters will admit the bare minimum. It helps them assuage their guilt and get you to trust them/trust they are 'doing the work'. I'm not saying she is lying; however, from years of experience on this board, 99.9% of the time if they admit to kissing, that means they had sex with the person at least once...admitting to oral? Well, you get the picture. They want you to think they are being honest and that they are telling you "everything", but really only telling you the stuff you'll be least upset about.

IF you want to R and IF you want to know the full truth and nothing but the truth, then your best bet is to ask her to take a polygraph. Also, she definitely needs IC. That should be an absolute requirement for R. Once she figures out why she thinks it's okay to lie and cheat, then go to marriage (M) counseling. IC for both of you should come first, though.

Sum,

Forgot to add- she's in self preservation mode and when cheaters are there, they tend to only tell you the bare minimum. It's not until they are able to take a really hard look in the mirror and dissect their dysfunction that they finally become honest with the BS and themselves. That normally will not happen for a while. I wouldn't trust she is being totally transparent until she's learned why she did this.

Maybe she's part of the 1% (anything is possible) and she is telling you the full truth. However, you do not know this because she has already lied and cheated. Cheaters lie and liars cheat. You may never know the full truth. If you ask how many of the BSs feel they know the WHOLE truth of the cheating, many will tell you they still do not, even years later. Some people are okay with that and decide to move on without knowing the full truth. Everyone is different.

Isn't it an interesting paradigm of wanting to know the truth, but not really? Once you learn the truth, there is no going back. The movies will play in your head forever. My IC recommended I didn't want the dirty details because they would only haunt me. And she was right because the details I did know at the time still haunt me. There is no erasing sexually explicit words or deeds meant for someone else.

Hang in there!

I know I am typical and I am in denial but she did not hold back in telling me of their encounters. She easily could've left some things out but didn't. That strengthens her claim that she is telling the truth because what she said hurts almost as much as sex. I don't think it matters if she had sex or not to me. I think there is an intimacy about oral that is every bit as hurtful if not more so. However, I would like to know if they did (or do I).

I do believe though that in her mind she doesn't want to face that she is the person that did these things. So she is also lying to herself. Not telling me the whole truth allows her to perpetuate the lie to herself.

Currently, I chose to believe that she has had sex with him. I just can't see any way around it logically. She meets him and the first time they are alone they do oral. She didn't feel a rush of guilt and end it or even just stop going to the gym at the same time. She kept talking to him and kept going.

If I decided to R it only happens with a polygraph but I am honestly going to do everything in my power to walk away. I am very weak with her. I expect I will fail. It sickens me to be this person.

It's a start. Plus I consider oral sex to be sex. You can get STDs from it. Another big question now is - was there anyone else?

Is she willing to do counseling or making any progress in that area?

Sum,

It's amazing how much you and I are alike in our thinking, as well as our spouses' thinking.

What you said about her being in denial b/c she can't face the truth of what it says about her is EXACTLY what I went through for a year. We went through the bullshit games where I was really the one to blame for his cheating because he was "bored" with our sex life; he found various ways to start fights with me so he didn't have to be the bad person when I walked out,etc. It was exhausting! I wish I had been stronger back then and moved out.

I think you are making the right decision. It's not set in stone. She could have a miraculous recovery and be the wife you want her to be. There is a good saying on this board-I can't remember the exact wording- but it's to win big, you have to bet big. Betting big on yourself and walking away right now may actually be the one thing that saves your M in the future, provided that's what you want.

I’m trying to figure out a way to get out of the house and stay somewhere else for now. I have a downstairs living area that I could make pretty comfortable but it would alert the kids and I’m not ready for that. I’m also not ready to tell a friend so it makes staying with a buddy difficult. That leaves a hotel but lord what a waste of money.

Am I just making excuses? In my heart I truly want to be away from her. She needs to miss me or I need to see that she doesn’t miss me. I need to clear my head.

I don’t know wtf is wrong with me. After hearing the latest news we had epic sex. Yet, laying in bed with her makes my skin crawl.

Last random thought, I feel I have no one to talk to. I don’t want my real friends knowing. I have a couple of people I have confided in but they probably think it’s strange. One I barely know.

Oh, thank you Nek and Writers for the replies. Just seeing that someone replied makes me feel better.

Crap, just recalled something. I went through her phone and she was talking to a friend. At first I got upset with her friend. She was calling me a control freak (somewhat true) and saying other things. She has a very disposable view of relationships, but that is the type friend my WW seeks out. Anyway, I realized her friend was only going on what WW told her. My WW was manipulating her to get her to say what she wanted to hear. WW didn’t blame me, she did honestly take responsibility for her actions. One part that sticks with me is she tells her friend I question my WW’s character and morals. WW says she’s a good person with good morals. I guess she forgot the part where she’s had 2 affairs this year alone and was blowing a guy in the gym parking lot. All this to say I’m not sure this friend is a friend of our marriage. I feel her advice is more for a relationship on the rocks but that didn’t involve cheating.

I'll make it easy for you - she's not a friend of the marriage. She is actively encouraging your WW to act in a way that will destroy any chance at R and end your marriage. She is an enemy of the marriage and she needs to go.

I'd like to tell you about a poster who was active here years ago and if anyone remembers his username, please post it. His WW had a friend who covered for his WW's cheating and encouraged her to be selfish and live for herself by having a long distance boyfriend. When DDay hit and this friend continued to not hold the WW responsible and many people told this BH to make getting rid of this friend as a requirement for R because his WW was refusing to do it. Well, he caved and never did it. IIRC, 2 years into R and everything is going pretty well. His WW goes on a trip with this friend and he thinks it will be fine because it's a conference, they're sharing a room, and he doesn't think friend is so toxic to their marriage. That is, until his gut starts to tell him something is wrong and he finds out from the phone logs his WW was calling friend super early in the morning and he couldn't figure out why because they should have been in the same room.

Months later he finally busts them - the friend had been letting his WW contact the OM through her for months and WW stayed with OM in the same hotel that weekend. THAT'S why she was calling friend early in the morning to meet up with her because she was staying in OM's room. He immediately moved to D. Just think, he could still be in R today if he had told his WW she either cuts off her toxic friend or leave and even if she did leave, at least he would not have wasted another 2+ years with her.

At best, this will always be an uneasy point of contention for you because you will always wonder when the other shoe is going to drop and this toxic friend will hand your WW the perfect justification to go back to cheating on you. At worst, you will have an experience just like the poster I talked about above where she introduces your WW to a new OM because it's what she "deserves" after everything you've done for her. Or get her to open new social media accounts. Or cover for her if she chooses to do either herself and make it harder for you to catch her next time. There are too many ways that this toxic friend can ruin R for you when R could go well without her influence and temptation.

Sum,

I'm pretty sure you and I are twins separated at birth.

All joking aside, of course you are having awesome sex right now. It's totally normal and called hysterical bonding. Some of the best sex I ever had was 6-8 months following D Day. I would wake up the next day and ask myself WTF??? I was so angry for allowing that to happen-how can I open myself up enough to even have sex, let alone GREAT sex!? There was a part of me that wanted to prove a point to myself and to him- that I was worthy and he would miss out if I walked.

It's also normal not to want to tell anyone b/c there's a lot of shame in being the BS. You feel like you somehow failed yourself and the marriage. I, too, used this board as my outlet because I was too embarrassed to tell my friends, especially when we were considered the "perfect couple".

I agree with Nek that your WWs friend is no friend of the M. She needs to go!

We are very much considered like a Ken and Barbie, but a lot of people can read that my WW is capable of being, well...wayward.

Tons of set backs today. I just cut off all communication with her. 24 hours after finding out about the hook ups she has been defiant and cruel. I suspect she told her friend that I looked through their messages and she was coached up on how to handle that.

Sum,

She is gas lighting you BIG TIME. When you get a chance, please look it up. It will enlighten you of the mental gymnastics our WSs do to make themselves feel better.

I'm sure her friend is giving her the ol', "of course you cheated on him! He's a controlling asshole and you are just rebelling" or something similar.

It really does seem like cheaters have a cheater's handbook or something because they all pretty much behave the same way. Once you disconnect for a few days, she will likely swing from nastiness to super nice and will probably fluctuate like that for a while. It's like Jekyll and Hyde and you certainly do not need that in your life right now.

SumofOne - first you believed she was only sexting, now you want to believe what she told you was it because "it" was such horrible behavior that it must be the truth and hard to say.

Sure, that may be true. But it ain't the whole truth!

Dude, look at this situation from afar: You have a woman who will take highly sexualized photos of herself, nude and more, and send them to all kinds of men, without too much prompting. It's what she does.

And she's married!

Now think about it: Is this the kind of woman who stops at one blowjob - and one incident of whatever it was she confessed to you?

No, this is the kind of woman who fucks guys and doesn't care that she is married when she does it.

In your case I am not sure what else there is to know. She has betrayed you so much. She isn't going to stop. And even if she did, dude, can you get how she lets herself be used out of your head?

Please stop letting her walk all over you.

[This message edited by faithfulman at 7:14 PM, August 8th (Thursday)]

Wrist - from what I’ve seen it’s more stuff like, you can’t work without trust. He needs to stop going through your phone. He’s making you both miserable. Outside of the cheating my WW really does need to learn to stick up for herself. Not just with me, but in many situations, but especially with me and her mother. I think a part of what happens is she feels powerless in our relationship and this gives her power back. Not justifying her actions with any of this. I was this same person (honestly a worse version) in my first marriage and my first wife never cheated.

Faithful - I think everyone “wants” to believe their spouse isn’t capable of such things but as I said, in my heart I believe pretty much what you said. One of the things that really helped me in perspective is to read other people’s posts. I find myself thinking. This poor fool is letting their love blind them to the obvious. I know in the beginning that was me and I know it still is to a lesser extent now.

My wife’s pattern - be a great wife for a while, then she will go through a stretch of reckless devastating behavior for a bit. There has been 2 really bad ones, this one and the one when we first got married.

The last 10 months has been just one body blow after the other. The worst stretch of my life. I’ve honestly have had a charmed life. This, has been tough. 4 really good years with my wife, in January she sexts a guy on Snapchat. Then my mother passed away not long after. I feel like I went through it alone. Then, a month after my mom passed, my wife starts her 2nd affair. Before any of that I had a work situation in December where I was on the verge of resigning. I keep thinking things will turn around but the last 48 hours have been some of the toughest.

I feel like there has been a bit of a breakthrough lately despite the bad news. It started with her telling me more of the truth. As many say, I will never know it all and there is always going to be lies.

However, Since telling me she has been showing real remorse, guilt, shame. It seemed she was just reading from a book before. She has uncontrollable bouts of emotions and I just feel like she wants to tell me whatever I need to know now.

How do I proceed? I feel like nothing is a good sign on here sometimes. I am not wanting to run back to my old life. She still knows that work has to be done for me to want to stay. I don't think that magically we are healed and it will be ok. I do feel that she is showing the things I have read on here that is needed to even have a chance at R though finally.

Being forthcoming and demonstrating genuine emotions is a good first step. But your WW has put you through the ringer lately and is a serial cheater. Ask her what you want to know. You seem to know that she is being serious. Be vigilant. You do not want to be in a M where you keep going through these cycles. She needs to get rid of the toxic friends. She needs to face herself and realize she has not been a person of good morals. She desperately needs to be in IC to deal with her own failings.

She needs t9 work on he4 low self esteem and need for outside validation. Yes, your WW is making small positive steps and they can be recognized and encouraged. But you get to decide if your M continues. You have time to watch her. Her most recent betrayals May be a dealbreaker for you, and no one would blame you. But whether you decide to D or R you will get support. Take the advice you can use and leave the rest. Good luck.

Has anyone mentioned the book” How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair” by Linda MacDonald? Definitely time for you BOTH to read it, you so you will know what to look for in her behavior, and her to WAKE UP to what she has done and to learn what she has to do now to “re-build.”

Wishing you all the best.

Question, I have a female friend. She is a somewhat new friend. I mean we have known each other for years but recently started talking because we are both going through the same thing.

Not a single inappropriate thing has been said between us and I don't feel an attraction to her like that, but it sure is nice to talk to someone as needy of companionship as I am.

I have told my WW about this friend and all messages are available to her.

My WW is demanding that I cut ties. This is about the only outlet I have. My guy friends are not that helpful.

I don't know what is the right thing to do. I want to give my situation with my wife a chance but I also feel like she is trying to isolate me.

I personally believe that you should not cut ties with this friend since she too is a BS and you have never crossed any lines. You are also being open and transparent about her and allowing your WW to view messages if she wants to. If your WW doesn't like it, tough. You're not the one who cheated and you need the support right now. It's not about her.

Do you think your WW would ask you to leave SI if she could or saw your thread? If yes, then it really doesn't matter how guilty and regretful she's being. Remorse is about putting the BS and their healing above themselves. Asking you to cut off your support is the complete opposite of remorse. Doesn't mean you have to do anything with that right now but you certainly do not and should not give in to her when she acts like this.