SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I'm not entirely sure though. My W embarked on the "ultimate NSA" experience, an affair, where "FWB" if kind of the rule of the day. Did she want more? Yeah, of course she did, she wanted to be loved and cared for by the OM. Did she claim to be OK with the nature of their relationship? Yes, she did. And she was lying, just like women used to lie to me (and me to them) as a young man about being "OK" as the side dish. So, while I think what you're saying is true, and yes, I think that there are a lot more women out for "NSA" in the older category than young, I'm still not sure how to trust any of it anymore. There are endless articles about how Tinder has "destroyed dating" for women, how they are unable to find anything but another guy to f**k/chuck them, and how it's awful for them. That kind of blows my mind, because, well.. That's what Tinder is for!! But still, even people who are on a site specifically for NSA, there are plenty of articles around "why can I only find NSA" from people tried of f**k/chuck. And, drawing the parallel, plenty of people asking for advice "how can I get my OM to leave his W" on other boards. To both, I would answer, "you're looking in exactly the wrong place".

You aren't wrong here. I did the same as your wife, not to be manipulative but because I didn't understand that I wasn't capable of NSA anymore. In my early twenties, I definitely was capable of it. I found some of the people I hooked up with always wanted more.

So, yes in some ways, I think you just caught me - I didn't know what I wanted. But, I think the state we are in when we have an affair lacks a ton of clarity we would have at other times because it's a relationship that is built on lack of coping, escape and fantasy. I am not sure you have all the cognitive dissonance and justification as an unmarried person looking for a relationship. There is a lot of conflation that happens here between what it's like to date versus what it's like to have an affair. The two experiences are completely different. Had I been single, I doubt I would have given the AP I chose the time of day.

If something happened to my husband, or he divorced me, if I had to date again. I would be clear that I did not want NSA. I would be clear that I am not capable of sharing my body with someone without having other intimate bonds any more. I don't know if it was age or marriage that changed that in me, but I am clear that's what I wanted.

And, to be honest I think my post commentary was more geared towards you dating someone, like really dating someone more than you looking for more NSA. So, that was an error in my thinking when I wrote it to begin with.

I do agree with Dee though, I think we as older women for the most part do know what we want because we have a lot more experience. Most of the friends I have are looking for a relationship. They are looking for qualities that my husband has. Yet, back in their early days I am not sure they would have even noticed him. Our appreciation and what we value change.

Yeah, I'll second that. Dude into coding and video games sounds much better than a fake player. Players are a dime a dozen and they keep at that game well into their elderly years, long after it has become sad and pathetic. Most women my age know those guys for what they are. We'd hear "coding" and think, "hey, probably has a measurable IQ and a decent job and won't be expecting me to support him". BIG bonus points for not opening the convo with a dick pic even if you're only looking for something casual.

Never worked for me. I'm an engineer. Coding and video games. No dick pics ever. I am all about building relationships. Have a wrestlers figure (I'm very athletic) , and 6' tall. Strait shooter and kind. Involved in the community.

Just got told (and still told, even by my wife) that I'm just a nerd, dork, etc. Doesn't matter that I am a wrestling coach, all American, financially successful businessman. I'm just a cute guy that's a great friend. At least that was 5 years ago. If the dating pool changed that much in 5 years it's news to me. My wife still tells me this crap. So it makes sense I guess to try and get validation through sex. Cause if my wife wants to have sex with me then she must find me attractive. Cause like all the women on here are posting, if sex with people is disgusting or creepy, or unattractive, then that must mean when she wants me I'm attractive, and appealing.

Doesn't matter that I am a wrestling coach, all American, financially successful businessman. I'm just a cute guy that's a great friend. At least that was 5 years ago. If the dating pool changed that much in 5 years it's news to me.

It may not have yet, you are still in your mid-twenties. As people mature, what they value changes. I am not trying to be age-ist, but being in your mid-twenties is just the beginning of self discovery. You are a catch, you may not know it yet, but you will.

My wife still tells me this crap. So it makes sense I guess to try and get validation through sex. Cause if my wife wants to have sex with me then she must find me attractive. Cause like all the women on here are posting, if sex with people is disgusting or creepy, or unattractive, then that must mean when she wants me I'm attractive, and appealing.

I don't think it's uncommon for people to feel validation through sex. I don't even think it's unhealthy as long as that's not the only barometer or source. But, I do want to correct you - I am a woman, and I don't think sex with people is disgusting, creepy or unattractive. I want my husband to want me just like I want him.

I think this issue has also become a little conflated. Women to experience creepers who really just exhibit lust towards them and any other woman. And that was kind of an argument for women being able to find sexual partners easier than men. I don't think it's easier for either gender but it depends on how discerning you are about who you choose. There is a difference between a man who leers at you lustfully when you are just trying to get your groceries, and a man who would accept an offer from a forward woman. I think we were mixing concepts. I know I could walk into a bar right now, find one who is predatory, but just as easily walk up to one minding his own business but after a few drinks and conversation might not turn down my offer. I think men can find the same though. Again, it's depending on what you are looking for and how negotiable your standards are.

Cause like all the women on here are posting, if sex with people is disgusting or creepy, or unattractive

I didn't see anyone saying this. Speaking for myself, I love sex and don't find having it to be disgusting, creepy, or unattractive. I was talking about who we have it with. And I think you and all the decent men here know full well that we aren't calling you guys creepers. When we talk about people who have hurt us or scared us, we aren't talking about you.

Picture this: you're at a swimming pool on a crowded day. Some kids run by. The lifeguard yells, "Stop running near the pool!" Do you stand up and yell back, "I wasn't running!", or do you understand that the lifeguard clearly wasn't talking to you and carry on with whatever you were doing beforehand?

Women to experience creepers who really just exhibit lust towards them and any other woman.

Again, speaking only for myself: a man exhibiting or feeling lust does NOT a creeper make. When I use that term, I very specifically mean a person who does not respect another person's boundaries - someone who doesn't take 'No' for an answer. THAT'S what I mean when I say creeper. And after far too long of being told to assume innocence and ignore my intuition, only to be assaulted or abused, well... I'm not going to doubt my internal voice. I do appreciate being able to clarify this, however, at least for myself: it's not about the lust. It's about the boundaries.

I would agree, it's more about boundaries. I guess when I was saying that I meant that there are times when men will make it super obvious they are hitting on you in places like the grocery store, but they are doing it in a very unwelcome way as they are staring at your chest or spending a lot of time looking over your body. It makes you feel gross. But, I don't think this is even most men, I just think that type of man probably confuses the conversation more.

: it's not about the lust. It's about the boundaries.

Good clarification.

But, I do want to correct you - I am a woman, and I don't think sex with people is disgusting, creepy or unattractive.

Also Thanks for calling me out. I guess I'm mixing things from these posts and things I've been told from women or more specifically my wife.

The no boundries guys are definitely an issue. Just like spouses with no boundaries and cheat are issues. But I guess going back to the topic and the thread jack is that. Men need people (specifically their wife) to desire them sexually. My wife has told me a few times that she would be fine never having sex again. I feel like crap. Any man would. Then a week later when she's in a better mood and can't keep her hands off me, that validation and good feelings are incredible. I think women need that too, but more so with emotional connection. Women need people (specifically their husband) to desire their character. My wife has told me when I can't go a day without seeing how she's doing and expressing interest in her day she feels similar feelings I do with sex. If I neglect her, she feels like crap.

I get what you're saying now, hikingout. I would argue that a person who stares at your body in so blatant a way might be demonstrating their lack of boundaries as well. My question would be, does a person who does that find some way of checking if the person they're ogling is OK with them checking them out? Do they check for signs of discomfort?

Maybe it's because of my own conditioning, but if I stare at someone, especially if I find them attractive, the very first thought in my mind is, 'am I making this person uncomfortable?' Which is why I don't openly ogle a person's body. I didn't do this even when I was single, because I didn't know whether or not they would be uncomfortable with my attention that way (I assumed they would be uncomfortable), and if you don't know, then don't do it.

[This message edited by silverhopes at 10:38 AM, November 15th (Friday)]

What you're saying makes sense, RedHeadTemper. You and your wife are both seeking to connect with each other in your preferred languages. Have you and she read "The 5 Love Languages"? It might be inspiring.

The hard thing in a marriage, I think, is when your partner doesn't seek to connect with you in the way you prefer. On the one hand, it feels like rejection, and it might well be. On the other, it might have nothing to do with you from your partner's perspective, but rather something of their own priorities or comfort level, but they might not express that. They might not even grasp how deeply hurt and rejected they're making their partner feel. They might not be realizing it's an issue for the two of you because it isn't a priority for them.

Does that mean you just excuse it, then? No, absolutely not. You and your partner keep working on it together until you both feel happy and cherished. The biggest commitment to make is to keep working on it together even when it seems rocky or frustrating at times.

[This message edited by silverhopes at 10:47 AM, November 15th (Friday)]

Silverhopes - I have no idea. It may sound weird coming from a wayward, but I couldn't tell you the last time I checked out a man. I am usually much more struck by other women, but not from a sexual standpoint more from an admiration one. I will often notice attractive women and take note of their outfit or their makeup. I have wondered if that is weird, but I do get that same conscience of "oh no am I staring, is that uncomfortable". But, woman to woman I can usually just say "I am sorry, I was checking out your (clothing, makeup, shoes, whatever)" and pay them a compliment.

Often if I find a man ogling me I give them the stink eye to let them know to stop. I can only guess it works for them enough for it to encourage the behavior? No clue, just I know I don't like it, it's unwelcome.

[This message edited by hikingout at 10:51 AM, November 15th (Friday)]

Redhead temper,

I would second what Silverhopes is saying. My husband also needs for me to want him sexually. I think it's hard because this thread was started by a BW - it's natural a BW is not going to necessarily feel that way for a long time or maybe ever again towards their WH.

In the case of BH's - I find that most of them see it as - you broke our deal. To continue, I want a better deal. In the case of a WW - I don't think it's a matter of pretending to want sex to get back in the good graces (that's been suggested here) but it's the onus of the WW to learn to be a better wife all around, to understand and anticipate your needs. For me, I already knew that sex was a way my husband needed to feel connected, that was something I kept in mind our whole marriage, but it was especially important that he saw renewed efforts of me wooing him in many ways, some sexually, because I went to an awful amount of effort to do that for another man.

Eventually it became less that and more about us rebuilding together, but this is a long winded way of your wife not showing all the efforts to woo you and to deeply understand and not dismiss your needs - that's a problem. It speaks to her staying in a space of being self-absorbed, rather than a place of remorse and contrition.

Often if I find a man ogling me I give them the stink eye to let them know to stop. I can only guess it works for them enough for it to encourage the behavior? No clue, just I know I don't like it, it's unwelcome.

I think you're demonstrating your boundaries just fine, and they're demonstrating their lack of boundaries by not respecting the signs you're sending them to stop. I'm sorry you (and so many of us) have to deal with people who make us so uncomfortable.

I think it's hard because this thread was started by a BW - it's natural a BW is not going to necessarily feel that way for a long time or maybe ever again towards their WH.

I guess this is the point. The BW is asking

Why would it matter if someone wanted to have sex with you? 

The why is, how do men feel attractive, loved, cared about, accepted, appreciated, and wanted?

The codependent, selfish answer to all those is sex. If you're desired sexually, then most all those are fulfilled.

Digging deeper however, no one needs those to be happy. We shouldn't look for external sources for internal validation/happiness.

I am happy. And don't need anyone else to be happy. But if my wife doesn't desire me sexually, I will probably leave and get a divorce. Not to be mean to my wife or say I need it, but it's important to me (and probably most men) that my wife is attracted to me, and wants me.

20yrsagoBS,if you don't feel sexually attracted to your husband, I'd advise seeing a therapist. If you can't get past the lack of desire for intamacy, its a good sign that being together isn't right. I see your seeing family members going through this. It's probably good to point out the SSCS forum going on right now. Your BIL that cheated on your sister is probably sayimg that, as was your husband to justify, minimize and shift blame for their actions. It isn't true, and if it was, D and move on. Don't cheat.

I hope I'm not triggering anyone, but WS or BS born really do need to feel loved and appreciated and in ways that both recognize and acknowledge it. If not, it's really not a healthy relationship and there's signs that things need to be worked on.

I think it's hard because this thread was started by a BW - it's natural a BW is not going to necessarily feel that way for a long time or maybe ever again towards their WH.

I really feel this is the case for me. After False R my sexual attraction or feeling of wanting to have sex with him went completely down the toilet.

My STBX blames his 2nd A on us not being connected during sex, but I honestly feel like my body picked up on his cheating over the years and it became a chore for me. He was never around but when he was he wanted sex. Total turnoff.

Digging deeper however, no one needs those to be happy. We shouldn't look for external sources for internal validation/happiness.

I don't disagree. Everyone has to have a primary happiness that they are supplying. I mean, when H and I thought we were divorcing, it wasn't lost on me that he and I could still live a happy life once the adjustment/grieving/transition time was over.

BUT, when you are married to someone, I think that just naturally comes with some expectations from both sides. When your major needs within that relationship are ignored it can often be lonelier than when you are even single. I don't think our whole happiness relies on the other person or whether they send you notes, or have sex with you, or whatever it is you want out of a romantic relationship with someone. It's moreso the idea that why have a relationship with someone who is that uninterested in connecting with you? And, more this is for you, Redhead as the BS. The BS has every right to be looking for some confirmation that the WS is there for the right reasons, values you as a mate, wants to work to reestablish the connection. If you say you want to be desired sexually as part of that connection, and she can't muster that, I do think it would be time for you to rethink the relationship.

And, if it were reversed (not because you are a BW or a BH - there are plenty of BH's here who do not want their WW sexually after the betrayal) and your WS wanted sex and you didn't, then he or she has to understand that as a consequence of their actions and be equally respectful of that need to disengage, the same as they are respectful of your need to engage. Cheating changes the dynamics, it's up the WS to provide whichever the BW/BH is asking for what it is they need. A WS who is remorseful is going to be able to connect with that need and not contest it.

I am sorry, I really should have said because she is the BS who feels this way, not the BW. Because it really isn't gender specific, at least not in my view.

[This message edited by hikingout at 12:41 PM, November 15th (Friday)]

When your major needs within that relationship are ignored it can often be lonelier than when you are even single.

For me, it was the constant rejection. When we first got together, it was constant passion that cooled to a consistent, comfortable, and mutually pleasurable intimate life. She got hers, I got mine, we were both satisfied, or so I thought. We talked a lot, we shared thoughts and feelings and emotions and triumphs and hardships.

And then it suddenly cut off. Like, from two or three times a week to once a week to once every other week to once a month to "good luck, buddy." I'd try to initiate foreplay and intimacy, I would spend time with her without expectation, without ever bringing it up, with no ulterior motives (I know some of you ladies are probably rolling your eyes like "yeah right" but it's true), and the INSTANT I started initiating flirty sexual conversation, BAM! Ice wall. I'd get rejected every single time. The exceptions were few and far between, and the constant feeling of being pushed away and pushed aside was heartbreaking and incredibly lonely.

THAT is what killed me. The rejection from the person I was supposed to be able to be open and vulnerable with, then being treated like I was being hypersensitive because "Women are supposed to reject their husbands so that they don't get too entitled."

Her words. I guess that only applies to husbands, not boyfriends or strangers.

Incarnate,

During Cheater’s 1993-1996 Fuckfest , we were having a lot of sex. Unbeknownst to me, his AP was revving him up, so I could finish him off. Gross! We even conceived our son during that time.

He claims the sex with ME had nothing to do with the sex he had with it