SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

There was a comment earlier about the "scarcity" of sex or something to that effect.

I was speaking to the perceived scarcity of a specific poster mostly who said there was a scarcity of women who wanted to use him for sex. And, just because we all have a sexual partner doesn't mean that there isn't an imbalance in how much sex one desires over another.

I think scarcity also speaks sometimes to motivation for cheating. But that is a perceived scarcity by the adulterer, not necessarily a true one. To cheat, you are looking for something. Whether it's validation, or good feelings, or for some it's sex. There is an entitlement factor of "I deserve this", when in fact you do not.

I do not feel that a cheating spouse is always whiteknuckling their way through a Long term marriage. I myself was never tempted to cheat prior to my A, and I am not tempted in any way now. I have no desire to go down that road again, I don't feel there is any whiteknuckling involved. But, I do recognize for some that can be the case.

His needs versus my desire. Sorry, but I do not find someone who wants to put his penis in some skank, so she continues to listen to his bellyaching as sexually attractive. It’s desperate and pathetic. It’s not like his lovemaking improves with his extra practice. The adultery is a mood killer, certainly. I am content to proceed with my life without being sexually desirable. I have an amazing brain, am strong, funny, and very interesting.

Yes all HIS NEEDS superseded anything including my desire so of course I lost interest or it made me feel skeeved out. My STBX's SA stirred up my childhood sexual abuse trauma. It was a no-win situation.

my drama bucket to overflowing, so it's hard to relate to someone who feels the constant need to fill theirs with other person's attention, flattery, and sexual favors.

^^^ and this! I feel this!

[This message edited by crazyblindsided at 1:58 PM, November 14th (Thursday)]

Before Infidelity became the third wheel in my marriage, I had great aspirations of a fulfilling, exciting sex life with my husband. He would tell me he felt likewise, all the while he was rubbing one out to porn, plus propositioning his supervisor for sex. Bam! That tiny sliver of intimacy was gone!

Fast forward 30 years. Knowing someone YOU chose, can destroy a marriage, then presume to want a marriage untainted by the damage infidelity wreaks upon it, does not motivate this Betrayed Spouse to, again, seek an intimate relationship with this creature.

Yes, Hikingout, I did want those things, but that was crushed with the first lie. It doesn’t return.

Yes, Hikingout, I did want those things, but that was crushed with the first lie. It doesn’t return.

I could completely understand that. And, for some like I said it's not feasible to divorce and start over. I guess if it is, that would be what I would encourage you to do - because if it's something you will miss or want again and can not have it with him - then you should still be able to have it. I hope that is coming across the right way. It's hard to be a WS and do that sometimes.

Are you really happy pretending to be someone you're not just to get laid? That feels okay, ethically?

I'll answer this because it was asked directly, apologize for the TJ.

I was happy enough doing it, yes. I didn't understand it, or why women seemed to enjoy the company of "asshole me" more than "real me", but at the same time, I didn't care all that much either. I just brought out the worst version of myself, lied (or more often, just didn't answer or redirected the conversation) as needed, wouldn't commit to anything, and was terribly aloof. And women seemed to respond to that much better than the "real me" who wanted to play video games and write code (in college).

But, this is important, because, at the time, I really didn't feel ethically in the wrong. I didn't understand it, but, at the same time, I thought we were all on the same page; everyone understood that this was a "game". I saw it much the same way as wearing a pushup bra, high heels and makeup. Yes, I know your boobs aren't that big, your not 6' tall, and your eyes aren't actually purple. But I like it, it's attractive to me, and I appreciate you making the effort to entice me. I thought my words were the same thing, yes, these are all lines, and yes, we both know that, but you like the lines, just like I like the heels and illusion of a 6' tall woman, and we're all happy with that arrangement.

It wasn't until the affair that I came to the horrible realization that at least some women (my wife, for one) actually believed the lines. Didn't see purple eyelids and think "nice makeup" but thought "OMG, this person is amazing, their eyelids are purple". It was at that moment that I realized that I wasn't playing a "game" where we all knew the rules, I was playing a game where I was manipulating other people.

Now, even today, I have trouble believing it. My wife bought the lines, hook, sinker, rod, and everything else. But did she really think they were true? Or did she just want a toss in the hay? That's my internal challenge, and one that I talk about here a lot. And a ton of WW's have piped in with some version of "yes, I thought I was in love/he loved me" which tells me, no, it's not unheard of that someone might believe the garbage and take it as truth. But it is really hard, even today, for me to believe that. You don't (not you personally) know they are lines? That every married man looking for a side has a "sexless marriage" and the "love left a long time ago"? I mean, really? It feels one step removed from me coming here saying I cheated on my wife because I was so attracted to a 6' tall woman and then posters pointing out to me that she's wearing 8" platform heels. You really didn't see that/know that?! But, that's my internal struggle, and the thing I spend a lot of time ruminating on, even today.

In answer to your question, yes, at the time, it felt ethically OK. Today, not at all. In fact, I'm pretty convinced that I were to D, it's over for me with women. I could never wear the "makeup" again, and, frankly, I don't think that the person I am without that is very attractive to many women. And I have a great case study on it, I was terribly unsuccessful with women until I learned to put on "makeup" well (kick lines). And then I became very successful. But I doubt I'd find anyone again without it, much like I suspect a lot of BW's, if told "you can never do your hair again, no makeup, no high heels, no pushup bras, etc" feel like it would be hard for them to find a partner again too. Yes, people do it, I'm sure some men do it too who really are just that interesting, or the "real them" is much closer to the "made up RIO", but that's not me. And it's very sad, because it kind of means it's "this" or "nothing".

I don't feel there is any whiteknuckling involved. But, I do recognize for some that can be the case.

I think this comes down to expectations (what did you think the A would be like before you had it) and reality (what was it really like). The people I know who've gone on to become serials, well, I'd say that expectations and reality of an A matched pretty neatly. People like my W, I think her expectations and reality of what an A (or at least hers) actually are couldn't be more diametrically opposed. But the fundamental question is, "Does an A provide something valuable"? Not the concept of an A, but the reality of an A. Speaking for myself, yes, it does, something very valuable to me, which is why I think that I'd be much more likely to be a serial than someone like my W, who's doesn't value what an A, in reality, typically provides (put bluntly, more sex with someone new).

[This message edited by Rideitout at 3:21 PM, November 14th (Thursday)]

In answer to your question, yes, at the time, it felt ethically OK. Today, not at all. In fact, I'm pretty convinced that I were to D, it's over for me with women. I could never wear the "makeup" again, and, frankly, I don't think that the person I am without that is very attractive to many women.

RIO - how old were you when you "went off the market". My guess is you have very outdated information. The type of guy women went for in my early twenties aren't the types of guys I see my friends who are now in their 40's go for. And, honestly, don't you think your picker was skewed if you were just out looking for sex? The women that I know (and I know a lot of them) who are now back on the dating scene would fall over a guy who was honest, faithful, had a job, didn't send a dick pick within the first 24 hours. I think you have a rather bleak and probably very skewed vision of what someone in your age bracket these days would want or be looking for.

I know most of my friends would really fall over themselves to find a man like my husband. There are a few that I wouldn't put it past them if we weren't together anymore that might even move in on them (those are not close friends more friends of friends).

And, NSA is easier to find as well with technology the way it is. If that's what you were looking for, there are plenty who are out on tinder and they get why they are on tinder rather than match or Christian singles or other "love connection sites". I do have friends who have bad experiences with those sites as well, they meet people who should be on Tinder or Adult Friend Finder (Is that even still a site?)

RIO- I guess I just find that really sad. There are so many people out there like me, who don't do the "purple eyelids" either just in terms of appearance or of personality. Who desire authenticity.

And those people? They're the ones who get hurt and angry and bitter when they get manipulated by the people who are just throwing lines.

Hell, I'm 100lbs overweight, I wear jeans and sweatshirts, and I wear makeup only for special occasions- ever. I have never lacked for dates and I don't mean sex dates- I mean romantic relationships. I'm a pretty cool person and it has nothing to do with the package.

And yup- authentic people can be just as into crazy kinky sex or adventures or all that other stuff. It's not like the Madonna/whore dichotomy.

I feel like there's a super amazing part of being intimate that you have completely missed out on. I wonder (to go off topic again) if that's why you don't feel intimate/connected when you have sex, as you stated elsewhere.

There really is a big difference though in not needing "people" to desire them sexually and not wanting sex/being sexual, even in casual ways. Just because someone doesn't want to be desired by random people doesn't mean they aren't a highly sexual person. It's a totally separate axis.

[This message edited by PSTI at 3:38 PM, November 14th (Thursday)]

RIO - how old were you when you "went off the market". My guess is you have very outdated information. The type of guy women went for in my early twenties aren't the types of guys I see my friends who are now in their 40's go for. And, honestly, don't you think your picker was skewed if you were just out looking for sex? The women that I know (and I know a lot of them) who are now back on the dating scene would fall over a guy who was honest, faithful, had a job, didn't send a dick pick within the first 24 hours. I think you have a rather bleak and probably very skewed vision of what someone in your age bracket these days would want or be looking for.

Yeah, I'll second that. Dude into coding and video games sounds much better than a fake player. Players are a dime a dozen and they keep at that game well into their elderly years, long after it has become sad and pathetic. Most women my age know those guys for what they are. We'd hear "coding" and think, "hey, probably has a measurable IQ and a decent job and won't be expecting me to support him". BIG bonus points for not opening the convo with a dick pic even if you're only looking for something casual.

And, NSA is easier to find as well with technology the way it is.

I agree, I'm sure you're right. But, here's the kicker (for me anyway); are those people being honest? I had a LOT of women who I was straight up with, we used to call it FWB (friends with benefits), but I'd tell them, "I'm not exclusive and you shouldn't be either". And time, and time again, I saw that turn real ugly. So, sure, I could find a girl who "wanted NSA", but, is that really what she wants? Some significant portion of those people are lying, either outright, or to themselves. There are articles talking about how Tinder has "destroyed a generation of women" and is like "heaven for attractive men". Well, if everyone on there is really there for NSA, why the heck would that be the case. Summed up, if you know a lot of people are going to lie about their true desires (in both directions, I want a relationship, you want NSA, and we're both lying) it becomes really hard to be ethically sound. I know you're lying, or at least have strong reason to think you're lying, and I'm going to proceed anyway? That's difficult to stomach, at least for me.

And those people? They're the ones who get hurt and angry and bitter when they get manipulated by the people who are just throwing lines.

I know. I am one of those people. Yes, I did plenty of line throwing in my life, but I was always very authentic (well, after we started dating seriously, so not "always", but 99% of our relationship) with my W. And I am now hurt/bitter and manipulated by her "lines". Good girl, don't do that, don't enjoy sex, love you but that's just not me. All bullshit. So I totally hear what you're saying and relate, because I've now reaped what I sowed as a young man.

Just because someone doesn't want to be desired by random people doesn't mean they aren't a highly sexual person.

I totally agree with you here. I don't have any desire to be desired by random people anymore. In fact, I'm terrified of it and actively make sure it doesn't happen! But at the same time, I'd consider myself "highly sexual".

I feel like there's a super amazing part of being intimate that you have completely missed out on. I wonder (to go off topic again) if that's why you don't feel intimate/connected when you have sex, as you stated elsewhere.

I can't say, because I don't know. I don't feel like I'm "missing anything", in fact, if sex became "better" than it is and has been for me, I'm kind of worried that I might have to check myself into rehab. But, you could be right, and I might be missing something. Intimacy for me and sex really aren't all that connected, I do enjoy (but not need) intimacy, I like being close to another person. But sex isn't the way that I get that feeling, it's long conversations, laying together and talking, laughing about stuff together, crying about stuff together. It's not sex that's "intimate" for me, at least not the way from what I'm implying your saying. Which is why, of course, sex with a "rando" is still pretty darn good in my eyes, it's sex and that doesn't require intimacy. Now, if you told me, "RIO, if you have sex with this rando, you'll need to sit and talk with her about your and her hopes and dreams for 20 hours afterwards" well.. That would make me take pause, that's intimate, and I can already tell you, that would be like torture for me with most people I've dated in the past.

Most women my age know those guys for what they are. We'd hear "coding" and think, "hey, probably has a measurable IQ and a decent job and won't be expecting me to support him"

I hear you Dee, and I don't think your unique, but I do think you're unusual. I used to work in a company where I ran a coding team. A whole bunch of men, 25-40 years old, making 100K+, and socially awkward as hell. They tried and tried to date, and most of them failed spectacularly. However, in my role, I also worked with the sales team, all men, 25-40 years old, salary all over the map (50K-500K) and those guy got laid like tile. Most of them had 1/2 the IQ of the coding team, but they made up for it, with women anyway, through their much higher (anything multiplied by 0 is 0) EQ. Look, I'll put the offer out there, want to meet some coders who make 100K+, are decent, unmarried guys who, AFAIK, haven't cheated on anyone (but, to be honest, haven't had a lot of chances to do so)? RIO dating agency at your service. ;) I say this in jest, but, I really think, at the heart of it, there's a big disconnect between what people say they want and what they actually do want. I see the "dearth of good men" articles all the time and kind of laugh. I know plenty of good men, just that the vast majority of them are absolute sh*t at generating any kind of sexual attraction in women. They're not hot, they're not cool. And I think that's the real takeaway, the "what I say I want" and "what I actually want" gauges (in both sexes) are totally opposed in many cases. Good woman, I'll go bar crawling. Good man, I'll have an A. Ugh... You're looking in the place where you're least likely to find what it is you say you want, let's step back for a minute, is that really what you want?? I did plenty of bar crawling, but not because I wanted a "good woman", because I wanted an easy lay/NSA relationship.

[This message edited by Rideitout at 3:59 PM, November 14th (Thursday)]

But I doubt I'd find anyone again without it, much like I suspect a lot of BW's, if told "you can never do your hair again, no makeup, no high heels, no pushup bras, etc" feel like it would be hard for them to find a partner again too.

I spend many weekends at my local animal shelter and as the job includes actually cleaning up shit, I do not dress nicely. My hair is typically in a ponytail and I am not trying to look good. I smell like a dog kennel. People come in to meet the dogs and cats and I do the introductions and talk to them. I have been flirted with in those circumstances by men whom I did not find repugnant. Men whom I would actually agree to go on a date with if I were currently in dating mode. It isn't all push-up bras and high heels and heavy makeup that attract men.

I can't say, because I don't know. I don't feel like I'm "missing anything", in fact, if sex became "better" than it is and has been for me, I'm kind of worried that I might have to check myself into rehab. But, you could be right, and I might be missing something. Intimacy for me and sex really aren't all that connected, I do enjoy (but not need) intimacy, I like being close to another person. But sex isn't the way that I get that feeling, it's long conversations, laying together and talking, laughing about stuff together, crying about stuff together. It's not sex that's "intimate" for me, at least not the way from what I'm implying your saying. Which is why, of course, sex with a "rando" is still pretty darn good in my eyes, it's sex and that doesn't require intimacy. Now, if you told me, "RIO, if you have sex with this rando, you'll need to sit and talk with her about your and her hopes and dreams for 20 hours afterwards" well.. That would make me take pause, that's intimate, and I can already tell you, that would be like torture for me with most people I've dated in the past.

I really relate to this, so if you discover that you are abnormal and need professional help for it, please do let me know so that I can get myself fixed up too, lol.

RIO- just a thought to consider, but people can say they just want NSA and then actually catch feelings. It's a thing that I see happen over and over again in the consensual nonmonogamy community- people decide casual sex is okay, and then one person falls in love. There's no way to prevent that because you can't set rules around your heart.

I hear you Dee, and I don't think your unique, but I do think you're unusual. I used to work in a company where I ran a coding team. A whole bunch of men, 25-40 years old, making 100K+, and socially awkward as hell. They tried and tried to date, and most of them failed spectacularly. However, in my role, I also worked with the sales team, all men, 25-40 years old, salary all over the map (50K-500K) and those guy got laid like tile. Most of them had 1/2 the IQ of the coding team, but they made up for it, with women anyway, through their much higher (anything multiplied by 0 is 0) EQ. Look, I'll put the offer out there, want to meet some coders who make 100K+, are decent, unmarried guys who, AFAIK, haven't cheated on anyone (but, to be honest, haven't had a lot of chances to do so)? RIO dating agency at your service. I say this in jest, but, I really think, at the heart of it, there's a big disconnect between what people say they want and what they actually do want. I see the "dearth of good men" articles all the time and kind of laugh. I know plenty of good men, just that the vast majority of them are absolute sh*t at generating any kind of sexual attraction in women. They're not hot, they're not cool. And I think that's the real takeaway, the "what I say I want" and "what I actually want" gauges (in both sexes) are totally opposed in many cases. Good woman, I'll go bar crawling. Good man, I'll have an A. Ugh... You're looking in the place where you're least likely to find what it is you say you want, let's step back for a minute, is that really what you want?? I did plenty of bar crawling, but not because I wanted a "good woman", because I wanted an easy lay/NSA relationship.

Well now, and I do not mean to disparage, but there are two coders at my job whom I believe are decent men, but they need to be introduced to concepts like hygiene, lol. I don't know that it's the coding job itself that is the problem. There are several others here who do understand hygiene and one who is thankfully gone who was a massive player. Regardless, I don't date in my workplace, so these guys aren't on my radar anyway.

Socially awkward can mean a lot of things. I had a great conversation with a socially awkward tech guy at my job a few weeks ago (he's married, so off-limits). We talked about meteorology and it got quite nerdy. I dig that. If he were single and not working with me, I'd give him a shot. There are the socially awkward who are super smart and absolute joys to talk to. I like those guys. My XWH was a socially awkward "nice" guy, on the surface. So clearly I am attracted to that.

But yes, if I were sitting around saying "Gosh, I can't wait to fall in love and get married again", I'd probably not go bar hopping and initiating ONS. Though I did accidentally fall for my 1st husband who was intended to be a ONS. Oops. You can accidentally wind up with that kind of connection at a bar. I agree that it's probably not where you would start looking for love if you had a game plan, though.

As a man, I have always figured it's my job to create sexual attraction. Not enough women attracted to me? I change my game.

I come from an IT background as well, coder, so no natural here.

I'm divorced, so it mostly down to sex now anyway. Though I have a GF and prefer LTR. But no idea if "she's the one", there is no "one" for me anyway. But who knows what she will want next month.

Anyway, she wanted me to talk more. So I do during sex now, a lot, and her desire is off the charts.

Guys need to learn to talk to women. That's #1 on the list for any man. Forget lifting and the rest of it. Learn to talk to women.

Guys need to learn to talk to women. That's #1 on the list for any man. Forget lifting and the rest of it. Learn to talk to women.

You mean you can't just grunt, pull out your penis, point at it, and expect them to go for a joyride???

Damn, I've been doing it wrong for EVER! It worked for both of my STBXW's OM...

But yeah. I agree. I think that a lot of people, especially in this intensely digital age, have lost the ability to have a meaningful, one-on-one, in person, face to face conversation with a potential partner. There's no sliding into a DM when you actually have to slide into a bar stool and face immediate acceptance or rejection.

I mean, I haven't had a lot of experience with mate-hunting; I was married at 17 and separated 3 months ago. Going from being exclusive for half of my life to now being expected to play the field and figure out whether or not (and if not, how to become) desirable is going to take a minute, but it is definitely on the to do list.

[This message edited by Incarnate at 12:47 AM, November 15th (Friday)]

incarnate

we are approached by predators...the scum in the toilet. Not what I want to take home

This is an excellent point. I hadn't even thought of it that way, but it's true. The types of guys who have ogled me at the grocery store, honked and whistled when driving by, approached me for sex are creepers. I wouldn't want to be alone with them. They are nasty! So, yeah, not really any easier to me to find a sexual partner. I'm sure if men lowered their standard they could have sex with a different woman almost every day.

The gender stereotyping here is making my head explode! Guess what? I only wear makeup once a year, when I get dressed up for the Marine Corps birthday ball (which I don't like going to). Otherwise, I don't wear any makeup. I don't put all kinds of crazy creams on my face or get laser treatments or botox. I don't do my hair. It's always up in the messiest of sort of buns. It is not colored. I happen to love the greys I'm getting. I dress for comfort, sweats or yoga pants, t-shirts, no bra skechers walking shoes. I take my kids to school in my pajamas. Sometimes I even pick them up in my pajamas.

Socially awkward can mean a lot of things. I had a great conversation with a socially awkward tech guy at my job a few weeks ago (he's married, so off-limits). We talked about meteorology and it got quite nerdy. I dig that. If he were single and not working with me, I'd give him a shot. There are the socially awkward who are super smart and absolute joys to talk to. I like those guys. My XWH was a socially awkward "nice" guy, on the surface. So clearly I am attracted to that.

I second that. The Rico Suave's of this world - no thanks. I can be socially awkward as well, and I don't need that kind of pressure Seriously though, intelligence is a bigger turn on for me than anything else. Well, tied with sense of humor. And despite RIO thinking that many people don't know what they want (which is true) I think the older you get the more you actually really do know what you want.

RIO- just a thought to consider, but people can say they just want NSA and then actually catch feelings. It's a thing that I see happen over and over again in the consensual nonmonogamy community- people decide casual sex is okay, and then one person falls in love. There's no way to prevent that because you can't set rules around your heart.

I think most Affairs actually start this way. I doubt there are many people who think "you know what I am going to go off and fall in love with someone else". Feelings are results of thoughts and thoughts evolve.

You mean you can't just grunt, pull out your penis, point at it, and expect them to go for a joyride???

I laughed at this because in all actuality I have never been in a LTR without the man at some point pressing it up against my hip to let me know he wanted sex and expecting me to just be wildly turned on by that. I am not going to say it didn't work anyway, but REALLY? There are just some very distinct gender differences while not everyone has them - they are common enough most can relate to the generality.

[This message edited by hikingout at 8:08 AM, November 15th (Friday)]

And despite RIO thinking that many people don't know what they want (which is true) I think the older you get the more you actually really do know what you want.

No argument from me, my experience in the dating world ended quite some time ago, and yes, it was almost all young women, so perhaps the situation is very different for the older crowd. I'm just not sure how to trust any of it anymore, plenty of young women told me "I'm down for friends with benefits" and then wound up hurt when that was, in fact, the nature of our relationship (which today would be called NSA). Maybe if I were dating again today, women of my own age group, I'd find something very different and "NSA" would mean "NSA".

I'm not entirely sure though. My W embarked on the "ultimate NSA" experience, an affair, where "FWB" if kind of the rule of the day. Did she want more? Yeah, of course she did, she wanted to be loved and cared for by the OM. Did she claim to be OK with the nature of their relationship? Yes, she did. And she was lying, just like women used to lie to me (and me to them) as a young man about being "OK" as the side dish. So, while I think what you're saying is true, and yes, I think that there are a lot more women out for "NSA" in the older category than young, I'm still not sure how to trust any of it anymore. There are endless articles about how Tinder has "destroyed dating" for women, how they are unable to find anything but another guy to f**k/chuck them, and how it's awful for them. That kind of blows my mind, because, well.. That's what Tinder is for!! But still, even people who are on a site specifically for NSA, there are plenty of articles around "why can I only find NSA" from people tried of f**k/chuck. And, drawing the parallel, plenty of people asking for advice "how can I get my OM to leave his W" on other boards. To both, I would answer, "you're looking in exactly the wrong place".

RIO, I was utterly shocked to discover that people were using Tinder for "dating", lol. I was like "but that's a hookup site, right??". Maybe it evolved?

I think that there are people who don't know what they want from birth right on through to old age. Plenty of them. I can't judge everyone by them.

Older women are more likely to mean NSA when they say NSA. We've been through some stuff by then and know more about the world and about people. Lots of us have had bad relationships, divorces, etc. Youth is more hopeful and romantic. Middle-age is "most people are assholes". We say NSA because we REALLY don't have time for the relationship crap.

Yes, the dick pic guys are still mentally in high school and they are certainly all over the dating sites. Who that works on is beyond me. It's not the picture of a man's dick that is so off-putting so much as it is the juvenile mind behind that picture, and that's why those dudes get ignored right up front even for NSAs. I don't get the "he's really good in bed" vibe from that.

You come from a lot societal conditioning, if nothing else. Men have been conditioned into an entitled "more is more", since beginning of time and also conditioned into believing they are less if they dont obtain such standards. The old caveman theory has been flipped on its head, so much that psychology has been looking at actual facts and evidence.

I don't think society conditioned men to a more is more attitude. Looking at just my kids that are 2,they have to have more and more and no one can take their stuff. Territorial and want more toys (they'll go take their sisters toys, even though they have the same toy). My kids aren't cavemen, and no one taught them that. Society didn't teach my kids that. It's a natural tendency. Same with sex and men. The more sex and the more sexual partners, the more value, validation, support and love we feel. I don't need people to desire me sexually, but it gives a lot of validation and good feelings. People like that stuff. It drives good people to leave stable homes, with loving spouces, and abandon their kids for. People want that so bad that they'll blind themselves to get it. Pos AP's are made to be like Gods because it brings on even more validation.

Whether it's validation, or good feelings, or for some it's sex.

For a man, validation and Good feelings are tied directly to sex. Honestly I can't even think of a time that I didn't get that through sex. Even when my wife was cheating on me and I knew it. That's probably where hysterical bonding came into play. I'd have sex, feel loved and validated, his feelings wear off in a couple hours, gotta have it again.

actually believed the lines. Didn't see purple eyelids and think "nice makeup" but thought "OMG, this person is amazing, their eyelids are purple"

Yep! Waywards believe the darndest things. I really can't believe how dumb 'in love' Waywards are. WW's AP couldn't handle the kids crying for a couple minutes. Left and went home. Yet my WW thought she would be the best mom, and would help raise the kids etc cause she said it. The AP even told her that if they did get together, they'd move as far away from me as possible. My wife was on board and was ready to go. I still don't get how my wife still can't put it together that custody wouldn't work like that. And she still believes this girl would want to help with the kids.