SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

You know there’s all these sayings from the old days. Don’t count your eggs before they hatch. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

But the one that I find is the most accurate.: Is when it rains it pours. When crap goes wrong at all seems to go wrong in the same f*^%ing time.

And by that same token, when stuff goes right, it all seems to go right at the same time. So even though you might be feeling like 10 pounds of crap in a 5 pound bag right now, good times are coming eventually.

It's strictly against the rules to bring someone's posts (and what's said there) from one thread/forum into others. And that's all about providing a safe space for everyone, so I think it's a good rule. I don't think it's outside the rules to tell you that there are some very well recovered WS's who post in that section offering their thoughts. They're tough, but fair, and they are the first to point out leftover wayward thinking.

This morning I woke up to her leaving. She went and got tested like I insisted yesterday. She came back and asked to talk. I said there was nothing she could say. I said I needed space. She offered to go to her sisters for a few days, and I said why stop at a few days? She packed some stuff and left. I know it’s where she went - gps and I insisted on a picture of the dogs as she took them with her...

I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing. If you need some time to break through your co-dependency and get some clarity on what you want going forward, I think that's good. Take whatever time you need. However, if your WW is running off because she doesn't want to have to face the consequences of her actions, that's conflict avoidance and not so good.

I'm inclined to think she's scrambling to try and appease you while you're angry. She probably thinks that if she gives you some time on your own, you'll cool down and let her talk. But again... that's entirely up to you. Cheaters aren't just liars. They're master manipulators. Whether they cheat for 3 months or 3 years, they've juggled all the moving parts of two relationships and managed to keep them apart. What you posted above seems so benign, but your WW could have responded to your request for space with, "I'll be in the den reading a book if you need me". Instead, she upped the drama and went to her sister's "for a few days". That kind of sounds like, "Fine. You don't want to play. I'll just take my ball and leave."

You're the man on the ground, so you'll need to be the judge of what's really going on here in terms of how she handled that interaction. It doesn't look really good from this side of the screen though because some of big-ticket items like manipulation, conflict avoidance, and/or emotional immaturity could be in play. In any case, take this time to engage in good self-care and relaxation so you can get some mental clarity.

ETA: Just saw your latest post. Sorry for the loss of your friend. Such an important reminder that life is precious and we shouldn't waste any of it.

Keep trying on that IC. With Covid, most have been doing therapy over the phones, so I can imagine their resources in that regard are strained. It really does feel great to talk and get it out though. I put that off for two years and suffered way more than I had to.

[This message edited by ChamomileTea at 2:01 PM, May 9th (Saturday)]

looks like you have been very congenial and accommodating in your relation. Unfortunately contrary to its high social acceptance some women like unpredictable men and also who hold power. And there is also a saying kids is the glue that keep the marriage. I am not saying this as excuses. 6 years is a very extreme form of deception .

some points

Her lying about the ending is not unusual as she want to minimize the damage.

The past is gone. you cannot change it. Getting drunk, angry and shouting etc only harm you and also present you in a bad way.

So the best way is to stop drinking, go IC so that it may help you not to depend on medication, do your things (job, working out, self improvement) even better. It looks very sexy when one function well despite adversity.

Also it is better if you can make up your mind (easier said than done). To ask her to do things and at the same time wanting to separate/divorce is not practical.

Ask her to do things if you want to reconcile or if there is a good chance of it.

[This message edited by goalong at 4:05 PM, May 9th (Saturday)]

I agree with Chamomile. It's a little surprising that her first response was to go stay somewhere else.

Reaching out to OBS may not be a bad idea. She may know things that you don't. It's up to you if you have had issues with OBS in the past but if I was in your shoes, I'd be curious to hear her side of the story. It's not common for a BS to react like that, especially if the A ended years prior, unless there is more to the story and the A ended much more recently than you think. It's your judgment call to make whether you can be clear with OBS about why you're reaching out and enforce boundaries if necessary or if it's better not to open that door again.

What happened to you was heart breaking, cruel, and life changing. It is something you will never forget. I have no advice on how you should go forward in your relationship but I do have some advice on conduct if there is even a chance at all that you and your wife may R. When the average human is hurt they have a tendency to lash out verbally. You have probably done so. Don't. Words can hurt the soul. Words are something that also can never be forgotten. What you say to her will stay in her memory as long as her infidelity stays in yours. You can never take back something you said. Years from now you may tell the person you are sorry, you were angry and hurt, you didn't mean what you said but the words will still be there. I remember reading that "Once you say something to someone the words no longer belong to you. They now belong to the person you said them to." If there is a chance to R then chose your words. If there is no chance just divorce and walk away. I've seen so many times on SI, "words mean nothing only actions." I disagree to an extent. Hurtful words can last forever just like cruel actions. I do wish you well.

[This message edited by anoldlion at 9:44 PM, May 10th (Sunday)]

Anoldlion- thank you for that perspective. That really spoke to me.

Hurting a lot today. We had our last MC session yesterday. I told them I didn’t see the point in continuing when she needs to work on herself instead. I know she is in IC and she came out of her session with a realization about herself. I actually do believe it - and I did see she was truly trying.

The flip side is when I made comments she got very defensive, which I guess is to be expected, but was still frustrating cause I don’t think she really has a right to be defensive.

She also told her mother, which really surprised me. Then, she said “ the more people that know, the more I have to work on myself so I don’t act this way ever again”. I know we are only a week or two our from her latest confession with more details about the affair, but we are really 8 months out from the initial DDay- and I have to say this is the first time I am seeing signs of a true change about herself.... so far it is words, but it meant something to me.

The rub though is that I kicked her out last week, and I know I really miss her. The idea was that we were too codependent, and that a short separation may be what we need....but she has to come home tomorrow to pick up some stuff (she is staying about 3.5 hours away at her sisters), and I already know I won’t want her to leave.

It hit me yesterday....I feel like I know what I want...I’m just starting to realize that what I want may not be possible. I want my wife back. I want my best friend. I want the person I can talk to about anything....I just don’t know if I can ever trust her again.

So....these are my thoughts for today. Trying to live my best life and stay strong and positive....hearing her talk gave me hope...and I’m sure I gave her hope too....I just hope I’m not rugsweeping because of my pain.

I want to tell her to come home. I want to tell her to work on herself here. She can stay in the other room....I miss my partner. But I also know I can’t fix her, and I can’t be the one she leans on for help. She said her sister and brother in law have been her rock - she talks and they listen without giving advice....I know I can’t be that person.

This sucks. I feel like every option sucks. It’s the shit sandwich that just keeps on giving, isn’t it?

Not really sure what I’m looking for here other than to get this out.....so rant over.....

Rant away. We are always here to hear you.You are doing well. What ever you decide takes time.

Right now keep working on your self. The usual.. eat well, hydrate, good sleep, exercise.. once your emotions settle.. You will be able to process and work through your next steps.

This gives you the opportunity to plan and execute things that you have always wanted to do but were unable.

Move forward. Life looks great what ever you decide.

Well, you are riding the rollercoaster. It’s no fun. Your WW is showing baby steps. Confessing to others is hard to do and she has started doing this. It’s hard to assess and start to recover a relationship while separated. What do you want? If you want to live together do it. As long as the A is over and she is not pining away. That would be too painful to you. What do you want to see? Has she written a no contact letter?

Has she written a timeline of her A? Is she being transparent with her phone and devices? It is not rugsweeping as long as you layout your needs and boundaries. You will never trust her the same again. But if she is all in she can do consistent things to try and rebuild trust. But it requires consistent actions over a very long period. Continue to get stronger for you. You are in control of the M. You decide whether your M continues or not. Be vigilant and watch her actions. Communicate your needs. Good luck.

If you welcome her hoe too soon she may have the idea to cheat again. No consequences means the cheater gets off too easy and they repeat the behavior if the cheater doesn’t address their issues.

Ask me how I know.

It will all boil down to whether you can live & stay together after what your WW has done or you cannot.

You can pretty much cross off everything on the list that is required for a M from a spouse.

Honesty, faithfulness, truthfulness, commitment, integrity, loyalty and so on.

If you do decide that you want to R than you are pretty much going to have to start a the beginning again, albeit with an asterisk by her name as you can never erase the facts or the hurt & pain you have endured.

It takes a different type of person to live with that, I was not one of those maybe you are. that is totally your call. I hope you find your peace no matter which way you turn.

Sending Strength

[This message edited by notanotherchance at 3:00 PM, May 13th (Wednesday)]

I think it would be a good idea to keep her out of the house, until she has done a significant amount of work on herself. It wasn't long ago that she was blaming OBS, lying about the length of the affair, and still in victim mode.

Words are just words. They sound nice. They may feel good. But actions are what matters.

I would have her take a polygraph. That way you will know if she is still hiding things.

You are right about the codependent aspect. That is what you are feeling now. I want her, I need her.

You need to get to the point where you are comfortable being by yourself. That you are enough for you. That is how you get out of codependency. And once you do that the path forward will be much more clear in your head.

Hurt, listen to 1stwife and hellfire. There's no rush to bring her home. Let her have a little more time to prove herself. Let her get some more IC first. Let her drop her defensiveness and show some remorse first. You think it's bad now? It's far worse when you're together all the time and you don't get a break from her. Her defensiveness alone can wreck R before it even begins so take it slow.

It's natural and OK that you want her back at home.

But the key is that she needs to want come home. And she needs to work on a lot of her isses to get to that point.

You are about 3% into this situation. If you can fake it til you make it for another month or so she may start to understand how things are and may decide by herself to work on things. She's been gone a week, you can to it.

At the same time you will learn that you can be independent and become stronger on your own and less co-dependent with her.

She may respect you more if there is some 180 on your part.

Keep strong. You are a few miles into a long journey...

I’m sorry for your pain.

Even though you want to be with her, I’d suggest separation for a while longer. It’s only been a few days.

She spent 6 years giving another man, a piece of shit, the Best parts of her over that time. To me that means it will probably take 6 years at least for her to prove to you she’s worthy of being your full partner again.

She wasn’t a safe wife to you for all that time up to last year. What has she done to make you feel safe with her now?

That said, she can do this if she really wants it. But it’s a slow roll. Hard work over years. Don’t rush it.

You’ll only feel fully healed if she does it over a long period of time. And that needs intensive work in IC to make it happen.

If it were me, I’d tell her (even if it’s hard to do)

“I’m in no rush to call you my wife again in the near future. You gave up that role when you gave away the most intimate parts of our relationship to another man.

I am not interested in spending my life with someone I cannot trust. So I think it’s best you stay with your sister for a while in order for you to decide what you want and what your willing to do to get it.

This will take years to repair. Do you care for me enough to stick with it that long? You didn’t care enough to not fuck another man multiple times over 6 years, I’m not sure why you care now. Do you even desire me? I don’t feel it.

It’s probably best that we move on away from this relationship you have destroyed. But if you truly decide that you’re all in, I’ll keep my eyes open to watch and I’ll listen.

I’ll be glad to touch base with you twice a week if that’s what you want, but not if you’re just going to waste my time. The next time we talk, and if trying to rebuild is what you want, then bring me a draft plan to repair the damage and help me in my healing.

If your not interested let me know and I can call the lawyers and we can start mediation.”

You, in no way, have to drive this my friend. You can start down the path of getting out of this marriage, and if something she starts doing piques you’re interest then you can slow down that process any time.

Make her prove that she’s in it for the long haul and how she’s going to make you finally feel loved and cherished.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 6:51 AM, May 17th (Sunday)]

Wow. Thank you all for your comments. I feel like they are speaking to my soul.

I do understand....and I know that the codependency is one of the problems here that I need to fix for me. See, I never mentioned this but we met in college - we have been together since. We have never been adults without each other. Hell, I only ever dated 2 other people. One for a long time in high school and another in college for only a few weeks.

I guess what I’m not understanding is how I am supposed to know she is working on her and seeing progress when she isn’t here. I know it’s only been a week she has been gone....I get it. I know that quarantine isn’t helping, cause I’m alone in a big ass house and she is at her families.

I did just take what to me was a huge step.....I called and got the list of counselors my work plan covers....sent the list to my MC to see if she had any suggestions or recommendations, but I will be reaching out to them right away to hopefully get the ball rolling on that for myself.

Guess I gotta get myself some new hobbies! Thank goodness I am still working, or I would be going insane.

It's way too soon to know if she's really invested in change.

My XWW had plenty of a-ha moments but never truly invested in changing herself. She fell on the all-too-easy out of blaming all the faults of the marriage on me.

Separation will be a better environment for settling your thoughts. If she is still defensive after a few months, then she has not found real remorse. So she won't be a suitable for R.

Work on yourself and being fine with being by yourself for awhile.

...when I made comments she got very defensive, which I guess is to be expected, but was still frustrating cause I don’t think she really has a right to be defensive.

Defensive is a big, red flag. It's been eight months since DDay#1 and within a half-hour of searching for answers on the internet, she'd know better. She's defensive because it's YOU, and you always forgive. If she was less sure of you, she wouldn't be pulling that shit.

(Also, defensive is terrible communications. Browse online for "The Four Horseman, John Gottman" and read the article you find. There's no place going forward for defensiveness.)

The idea was that we were too codependent, and that a short separation may be what we need....but she has to come home tomorrow to pick up some stuff (she is staying about 3.5 hours away at her sisters), and I already know I won’t want her to leave.

A separation is "therapeutic" when you're both getting your work done. I don't see that here. What I'm seeing is emotion when what you most need is logic. You'll do whatever you think best and we are still going to be here to support you afterward, but do consider giving the separation enough time to accomplish your goals... to break through the codependency and to reestablish some real respect. My 2 cents.

Strength to you as you process.

Brother, your frustrations are completely understandable.

I joke in with anger, out with love. Any harsh words spoken in anger can not be un spoken or un heard.

A very difficult period, but try no booze or recreational drugs. Drink water, eat healthy, exercise even if it is walking the block. When we get angry, our reptilian brain doesn’t filter our words, that’s why after a heated argument, we ask “Why did I say that?” Clear head clearer words.

Strength to you. One day at a time

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