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After 5 days off, I have a feeling that when I get home, she's going to want to go for a bike ride. She wanted to yesterday, but never got as far as even changing into bike clothes (I know the feeling well - its been 2 months for me). It could go either way today. Assuming she does, I plan to take the kids somewhere, so that we're out when she gets back. I'll leave a simple text ("At my sister's"), but plan to get home at bedtime.

I am going to try to detach and let her work through this herself. She is practically begging for attention and help, so it is difficult.

I would think she needs to get into therapy to deal with her issues. To me it sounds like she could be having panic attacks over your threats to leave. Look what happens when you do try to walk out. Leave it up to the doctors to analyze. With the snapshot you have given, I would err on the caution side with her. Make sure she gets into treatment.

Hey Feb -- I will not be ignored.

Insist on TRANSPARENCY. Asap. Ask for those PWs. Look at the cell phone.

I hope I am wrong here, but your reluctance to do that tells me you're afraid of what you'll find. Because if you find something, you'll have to draw a boundary around it, or proceed with D, and you haven't wrapped your mind around that.

Don't be wasting your time. Don't take her word for ANYTHING. Don't be snowed by her depression as excuse to not INITIATE transparency.

Ask.

How she reacts will tell you everything you need to know.

I'm starting to hear the "You're a good guy, and I'm such a schmuck. Why do you still want me" kind of thing. I try to be non-commital and say because of the first 10 years, or the kids, or even, i'm not sure if I do.

You might find inspiration for a response in this. Alexa071 has a great tagline, based on GeauxTigers' wisdom:

"I will get a different partner out of this pain. That's my payoff. Due to proximity, history, and existing feelings, my WW gets the first shot" - Geauxtigers

Schmuck is a Yiddish insult. Its literal translation is 'penis', like 'prick' is in English. I think your wife could be a prick, but....

My remorseful WW also has said numerous times that she doesn't understand why I want to stay with her. It's not a ploy for her; it may or may not be a ploy for your foggy WW.

My fingers are crossed for you.

From what you describe are her actions, all she is doing is moping around and thinking about herself. Instead of thinking about going on a bike ride (something she does for herself) she should be making a phone call and setting up a counselling appointment (something for the M), getting together a list of her PW's, asking you what else you need to know she is back in the M, and starting to check things off your list of expectations.

Right now, you still have nothing to work with, regarding whether or not she has changed her ways or not.

180, 180, 180 and start getting your ducks in a row, let her know you expect her compliance with what you need from her, and that she does not have forever to do it.

Feb,

Maybe way to early but I think the competitive cycling days are over…

I’ve mentioned this before but I sense that you two have the same interest/hobby but chose to follow it in separate groups. So basically the day-to-day stuff is divided between you two, but the “me-time”, socializing and so on is with separate groups. I THINK (no stats or proof here…) that men handle solitude and alone time better. That’s why we go for fishing, hunting and stuff that requires quiet and solitude. For women the social factor is more important. Like I say – my theory and no stats or research…

Anyway – When you two start to R you have to prioritize time this way:

1) Feb and Mrs. Feb.

2) FAMILY

3) .

4) .

5) ME

So if you two still ride it’s riding with the kids, or riding together, or riding in the same group. The gym – together, out with friends – together…

Yes – you CAN both have separate friends and hobbies but they have to take a distant seat compared to the other two.

Schmuck is a Yiddish insult. Its literal translation is 'penis', like 'prick' is in English. I think your wife could be a prick, but....

Technically...Schmuck is an uncircumsized male...which is considered dirty if you follow the Jewish faith.

Anyway – When you two start to R you have to prioritize time this way:

1) Feb and Mrs. Feb.

2) FAMILY

3) .

4) .

5) ME

I am not sure I agree that ME time is so far down on the list. Obviously working on the marriage and family are at the top. And there is that added distraction of work. But I think so many of us put ourselves far down on the list and it becomes easy to forget about taking time for ourselves.

Not to be the Voice of Doom or anything -- but no Mrs. & Mr. Feb time until you're in R, RIGHT? Otherwise you're rewarding crap behavior.

When she hands over her PWs, gives you her cell phone records, her FB page access, all the goodies? She shows you actual remorse? She works to snap out of her pity party/cake loss theatrics and focuses on YOUR healing and that of your marriage? She takes her kids to school or does something ordinary and maternal and doesn't require adulation?

Yeah. Then you can go on a date. In R.

Until then? Do the 180.

Feb,

Maybe way to early but I think the competitive cycling days are over…

Perhaps for the one who couldn't keep it purely about cycling...there's the trainer in the garage, have at it!

As for Feb, I see no reason why not.

Goes without saying that there is no Mr and Mrs Feb time unless there is a Mr and Mrs Feb. No R = No Mr and Mrs Feb.

And Jiltedwife – this whole situation stinks of a neglected family because of me-time.

Many MC’s suggest couples spend a minimum of 15 hours a week together doing together stuff. Not household chores, not family stuff. Personally I can’t see how couples can combine work, chores and family with that requirement. Yes – it’s important to have a personal life but based on what Feb’s been writing it sounds as if a significant part of the free-time has been used for the cycling group.

SomewhatWorried: If Mrs. Feb puts work into R and Mr. Feb doesn’t then its not R. I’m an avid fly-fisher. If I could I would spend most Saturdays and Sundays fishing. But I can’t. Doing so would prevent me from fulfilling my responsibilities at home, as a father and as a husband (same reason I haven’t taken up golf). So I compromise. I fish at “amateur” levels and simply envy the guys that can go at it all day every day. Then I remember they also tend to be divorced…

And Jiltedwife – this whole situation stinks of a neglected family because of me-time.

The situation stinks of Mrs. Feb ME time, not of FEB ME time.

We all need ME time. It is too easy to lose yourself in your family. We all need to remember we were "John" or "Mary" before we were married, or had kids.

I'm with Bigger, not to pick on Mr. Feb, but I know Mr. Feb wants to learn something in spite of how horrible the situation is:

And Jiltedwife – this whole situation stinks of a neglected family because of me-time.

Many MC’s suggest couples spend a minimum of 15 hours a week together doing together stuff. Not household chores, not family stuff. Personally I can’t see how couples can combine work, chores and family with that requirement. Yes – it’s important to have a personal life but based on what Feb’s been writing it sounds as if a significant part of the free-time has been used for the cycling group.

SomewhatWorried: If Mrs. Feb puts work into R and Mr. Feb doesn’t then its not R. I’m an avid fly-fisher. If I could I would spend most Saturdays and Sundays fishing. But I can’t. Doing so would prevent me from fulfilling my responsibilities at home, as a father and as a husband (same reason I haven’t taken up golf). So I compromise. I fish at “amateur” levels and simply envy the guys that can go at it all day every day. Then I remember they also tend to be divorced…

Bigger also said this:

"Anyway – When you two start to R you have to prioritize time this way:

1) Feb and Mrs. Feb.

2) FAMILY

3) .

4) .

5) ME "

I don't know if I should write this now, but here is the 2 x 4:

From all the many day bike trips Feb has written about that they each took, and the fact that many weren't taken together, and all were taken without their children, it sounds like they were already going their own ways, and passing each other like ships in the night while at home. Rushing the children here and there for extra curricular activities is no substitution for family time. The thing that got everyone's attention is that Mrs. Feb's sexual morals slipped, bringing the whole thing to a screeching halt.

Another red flag of their putting their biking over everyone else and which Mr. Feb already noticed himself is when they left for 10 days on a bike trip, missed his mother's (or MIL, I can't remember) B-day, leaving her as a babysitter, and considered it a B-day gift. Mr. Feb, I was so glad when you wrote that you realized it wasn't such a great gift...it was a selfish justification on your part.

Mr. Feb, your whole family might end up better in the end if the two of you quit putting yourselves and your hobbies before others.

But first things first: Mrs. Feb needs to face her A, and start doing the hard work of owning her stuff, being transparent and getting counselling.

Moderators....I hope I haven't gone and said something that will get me reprimanded ....if so, I will delete the above post and figure out how much is OK to say in JFO.

(edited because fingers don't type as fast as my thoughts again.....)

[This message edited by HurtButHopeful? at 6:19 PM, April 6th (Wednesday)]

I didn't create the list of priorities....Bigger did.

And the more I think about it...I am not sure the the Mr and Mrs part should be number 1 either. Even during R. Children have needs and wants, and while they need to be tempered within the general context of life....many times family takes the front and center stage.

Everything is a balance. It can't be all or nothing. Just like ME time. Bigger said he would love to spend his entire weekend fishing....but he doesn't. But he still does participate. That is his ME time.

And Feb is certainly entitled to have time to himself. I think it is ridiculous that just because you are trying to R it means you give everything you have and then some. If that means he isn't really in R by your definition, then so be it.

We all need time to clear our heads. Give him some space for that.

jiltedwife: fixed it. sorry.

I don't think anyone is saying that there shouldn't be balance, just that the balance should be reconfigured.

Mrs. Feb has not had balance - from what I can tell it's pretty much been 'me me me me ME'. This is what Bigger is saying should change. And they change doesn't mean NO 'me' time, it is just overall lower in the priority system.

Just as we all need some 'me' time, there are also times where this 'me' time has to be put off - other emergencies or priorities crop up, and we just have to put our 'me' time down the list.

And no one is saying to neglect the children. Just that Mrs. Feb needs to put a LOT more focus on the MARRIAGE - NOT just the family (children).

That's my take on it anyway.

Stay strong Feb, we all know it's NOT easy.

Oh yeah - and everything squiffle says.

((((Feb))))

hey Feb,

re:

Quick question for anyone who wants to reply...I mentioned earlier that posting on other's threads helped me be objective about my own situation and perhaps learn/internalize a little. Do you find the same thing when you post on this thread?

there is an old saying:

those who can, DO. Those who can't, TEACH

it is so much easier being on the outside looking in and to give advise- especially if you've been there. But every situation is unique and we have to remember to weigh the advise given and decide what is pertinent and what will work in our own situation.

In your case your wife sounds depressed - whether this is her manipulating you to acheive her own preferred results - or because it is a fact- only you can make that decision. Getting her to a doctor and having her diagnosed would be a good start because if she is truly turning the tide and remorseful and is depressed then it needs to be dealt with so she can get herself back on track and work on her shortcomings.

As I said...I am not advocating for Mrs. Feb ME time....I am advocating for Feb time.

From our experience (FWH and I), I think part of it may be this::

Feb started to notice that the priorites weren't right, started making the NEEDED sacrifices, that parents make, for the kids. Hockey, games, school, etc.. It is hard to find a balance that isn't TOO kid centered, but with 3 kids it happens sometimes. Even if the kids all just did 1 thing, it is a lot of running around. So it is easy to feel like the kids suddenly took over the family.

In our family, part of our problem was when I started making many of the necessary sacrifices and FWH wasn't. He was still in me me me mode. The more he didn't give in, the more I had to pick up the slack. So, in turn, I tended to be grouchy about it. It also affected our home (cleaning, cooking, laundry, etc..). This affected our relationship too. The more I was "busy" with the kids, the less I was available to FWH and his depression and MLC.

No, it doesn't excuse what he did). I am just saying that part of our R has been in reconfiguring how we prioritize things, figuring out what is important and what can slip.

In Feb's case, I think Feb started to see that the boys were getting older, involved in hockey and whatever with school, and he began to ride less and realized that it wasn't MIL's responsibility to do those things. He began to make changes (I suspect???) and she didn't. My guess is that she started digging in her heels about riding for HER and it led to guilt, resentment, and needing attention/ her itch scratched by someone else. It doesn't make it ok what she did. It makes her like a small child having a tantrum b/c someone told her she was old enough to pick up her own toys and grow up.

Anyway, I think/guess that this is what everyone is alluding to. In R, part of it is looking at the family life, date nights, marriage, etc. and figuring out what was missing and where the focus was before the A and where it SHOULD be. Atleast that is my interpretation.

BUT, you cannot have R and a realignment of priorities or focus until you have R. SHe is not there yet.

One thing I think we all need to think back to and realize is that it may take her a few days or a week or two or whatever to get to the point of being TRULY remorseful and to begin to step towards R. It may take a couple of sessions in IC. Feb, you need to think about how long you are willing to wait and twist in the wind. It is YOUR family and your marriage. No one else can make that decision and it really isn't our place to make timelines for you. BUT, you need to decide when do you need to see her ATLEAST making an effort. IMO, she should have made a call to schedule counseling already. SHe has had 3 days. If she hasn't done so by Friday, I would ask her to leave. If she refuses, I think you take the kids to your sisters for the weekend.

It is def. time for some action.

As far as Transparency. You have to have it. SHe already admitted to taking it underground. You are going to need to be able to check calls made and texts to what her story is b/c of the lying and underground. You need to have passwords and email log ons today and need to go back through them. Check the trash, the sent and the drafts. Check for folders. You need to install a keylogger program on the computer. I would not be surprised if she has a secret email account.

YOu need copies of the phone records. If you can't get them, you need to change phone plans. It's worth the extra $5 to be able to check this. I know that Verizon records all calls (made and rec'd) and all texts (made and rec'd) pics and data usage. You need this and you need to monitor her line daily for a while. You need to ask her about each call/text.

Feb, we know it is hard, but ya gotta start looking for actions on her part.

I get that she is upset over being outed, BUT SERIOUSLY ??? I have never read on here about a WS (WANDERING SPOUSE) who pulled something like this. If she was truly remorseful/sorry/wanted to save her marriage, honestly she would be sucking up to you and on her best behaviour. She would be tiptoeing around afraid to screw up. NOT pulling the crap she is pulling. If she is that depressed, sad, down, whatever you want to call it, it is not hard to call for counseling.

Sorry for the hard words. I know you love her. I know that. I get that. I was there. But I am telling you, think about it, if you get busted for soemething and know you are wrong but being given a second chance, how would you act????? It's not jiving.

those who can, DO. Those who can't, TEACH

What an absolutely dismissive and insulting comment.

The support and help here is about as far from

CAN'T

As it possibly could be.

feb has the right to make his own decisions and has done so. That does not negate the unbelievable support and help he and others recieve from this site and it members.....

[This message edited by redrock at 7:39 AM, April 7th (Thursday)]