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I HAVE to believe the woman I fell in love with is in there some where and that woman is honest and loving and she would have kept her word. So call me a fool or whatever but I believe her and what this whole mess to be a painless for all involved as possible.

Sorry man, this is a big mistake. Protect yourself.

SWAT – Know you don‘t read your WW thread and I won‘t tell you what‘s going on there other than to suggest she‘s subdued because she is realizing she’s lost everything. She’s coming to the realization that R is not an option anymore and the reason for that lies squarely in her lap.

And about Chuck. Despite everything then he seems to have learned from his transgressions, shouldered responsibility and made changes in his behaviors. Maybe it requires a tough-ass like him for a wayward to rehabilitate himself…

And SWAT – That woman is there.

I've got no one except my kids. My family is gone I get that. I'm in a place right now that is lonely. I want to clarify, I'm alright and will continue to be alright. I have no other option for me or my kids. But random thoughts pop up every know and then. Like Christmas, birthdays and other holidays,seeing my kids for a couple of hours without WW and then they are off with their family. I no longer have a family and that sucks big time. But I'll do what I've always done. Suck it up and move forward. But it still sucks.

I hear you SWAT. I'm a few paces behind you but the same random thoughts also plague me. I can't bear the thought of losing my family either although I already feel differently about this than even three weeks ago. I guess just stronger and more accepting that keeping things the way they are cannot possibly be preferable, or healthy for my DS. Keep going SWAT, many of us are taking inspiration from you.

Hi SWAT,

A lot has happened to you in a short amount of time. You should be proud with how you have handled yourself in spite of all of the very public drama surrounding your wife's affair.

I just want to throw my 2 cents in for you to consider.

You can't know right now, at this moment if your wife is a good candidate for R. She doesn't even know yet.

You won't be able to tell until you get about a year's worth of consistent, self motivated change in her.

The key being self motivated. You cannot be her boundary maker, her rule enforcer. If you take that role, then eventually she will resent you for it, and you will wear yourself out checking up on her.

She must learn to be her own master. She must know without checking in with you how to behave around other men, what is a dicey situation, how to be less selfish, and how to be honest and drama free. That is her journey and hers alone.

The question is should you wait around and see if she does that.

I don't think you should.

I think you should continue with the divorce. A divorce will likely take several months. You have to see an attorney, hammer out finances, child issues, also some states have waiting periods. If everything goes 100% smoothly and everyone is proactive, it still make take 3 to 6 months at the least to get divorced.

In that time, you can focus on healing your heart, mind and mending your career. Your wife can focus on changing her ways, while you watch from the sidelines.

If after some time you see consistent change, you can get remarried and have a new marriage and family built on a more honest and secure foundation.

If she continues to trickle truth, lie, and be selfish. Well, it won't matter, because you will be divorced.

Take this time to keep your eyes open and watch what she does. Many a WS truly shows you who they are during the divorce process when the BS makes it clear that yes, the rubber has met the road.

Yes, what phillygirl said..

I encountered this problem when I mentioned post nup as a condition of R..I was called a crazy bitch by WH, when I mentioned this condition.. He refused to think about post nup or do it...So no R..

So I think I will have a nasty fight on my hands with D..

I will leave when I see a careful and safe way out..

Minds get changed in the D process and it can morph from something relatively straightforward into a long and ongoing nightmare..

Nothing is final until it is final..

Be careful..

[This message edited by doggiediva at 3:16 PM, June 4th (Wednesday)]

SWAT,

I have been in 5 LTR's that have involved infidelity. The first four ended upon my discovery of their A's. #3 was a little different in that it involved a year and a half long custody battle and I *tried* to R, but no way in hell it would have worked. (She was Borderline Personality Disordered and refused treatment).

#5 is sosorry5454rl. I'm currently in R. 26 months in. The difference? SI.

The advice here was to wait 6 months to a year to make life altering changes. I gave it a year. 8 months I got the boo-hoo I'm so sorry. Nothing really changed, it was still all about her. At the 8 month mark, her regret started to change to remorse. She had been lurking on SI and learning the difference. When she began to implement what she was learning, what a difference.

I'll be honest. At times, it's still a struggle. Inherently, to me, infidelity is a deal breaker. It was. What I am still wrapping my head around is that we are forging a new deal. Quite honestly a lot better than the old one. She is radically honest with me. Her feelings are expressed and I am no longer expected to read her mind(works in progress).

I'm changing. I have higher expectations of not only myself, but the M.

I HAVE to believe the woman I fell in love with is in there some where and that woman is honest and loving and she would have kept her word.

If you really believe that.......I think R might still be possible.

Strength

SWAT,

Don't get swayed by the divorce hounds on this thread; keep an open mind over the next few months as you near the end of your marriage. If you see positive changes in your WW put the divorce on hold for a while; nothing lost by this action and you may gain a new relationship from a chastened wife who has matured significantly.

The non-nonsense folks in Wayward are helping her out a great deal and its having a positive effect. It would be fair to have a consistent attitude towards adulterers; if they demonstrate true remorse and sorrow for what they have done then the BS should seriously contemplate reconciliation. Don't see why your wife shouldn't qualify; you just need her to embrace the magnitude of the pain and misery she has caused and have a program for rapid character improvement.

Hi SWAT.

I HAVE to believe the woman I fell in love with is in there some where and that woman is honest and loving and she would have kept her word. So call me a fool or whatever but I believe her and what this whole mess to be a painless for all involved as possible.

You've clearly got a soft spot for this woman. Who could blame you, you fell in love with her didn't you?

It is OK to take action to protect yourself at this stage. In a normal, healthy relationship, yea, this would be a little odd. But you are not in a normal, healthy relationship. You don't HAVE to believe, right now you WANT to believe. Protect yourself. You don't need to be adversarial about it, but definitely be guarded and prepared.

I admire people who can size up a situation and take decisive action. I tend to take way too many things into consideration when confronted with tough decisions. Too much gray. Sometimes it is simply black or white, right or wrong.

In my situation, I knew WH was a bit selfish but, always believed he would grow up and be grateful that I love him enough to look past this particular character flaw. Not the way it turned out tho because, instead of choosing to grow up he continued to indulge himself with what he thought was "what he deserved"....his words. It is simply a character flaw that he can't think beyond himself and only grew stronger with age. I've always thought I was a slow learner but, tend to err on the side of caution. That's why I'm 15 months into the hell my WH sent me into.

I don't believe that there is a stronger supporter for marriage than I am so, take this for what it is worth. I know swat's WW is realizing the gravity of the situation however, I do not believe people change their character over the course of 3 months. From what I have read, WW learned very manipulative behavior early on and, time has only refined it. It will take a lot longer to determine if this tiger change change her stripes. I'm sure she feels like she wants to now, but, I feel strongly that the remorse she feels right now could easily digress into wrath and chaos if she doesnt get what she wants. Immaturity at its finest.

Sadly, only time will tell but, for now swat, protect yourself from further hurt. As others have said, you can stop this at any time but, it will take a while for her to unlearn her comfortable coping mechanisms. Just watch for a while. You should not feel obligated to fix this and, no one is breathing down your neck.

Just be careful. Old habits are hard to break.

I find it odd and unhelpful when posters in this JFO advocate for Swat to reconcile. While I am all for R, it has to be something Swat wants--and it is healthy for him. He has stated repeatedly that his current mindset is for D. Why are people continuing to seek for him to reconsider? We all know Swat may change his mind down the road, and I for one would support him if he did. BUT, why add to Swat's burden now by advocating for something he is not able to even consider at this time?

Is it because some of you are reading her posts in wayward section and are rooting for her? Is it for some romantic notion? Is it a predisposition for R? Please support Swat for what he needs now instead of what you hope for. Quite frankly, I want a storybook ending here too. I will gladly support him if he changes his mind as time moves on and he heals. In the mean time I support his irreconcilable difference posture. I hope you all will also.

Swat,

You've gotten a lot of advice on which path to take. The rule around SI is "take what you need, leave the rest."

My own personal rule "If you're going thru hell - keep going."

No matter which path you take keep going.

K

I have to agree with Bigger's recent post about the pictures and diary. This happened during the A. It is part of the A. There is still hope of reconnecting with your fWW. TT is part of the A. Yes, it sucks. Yes, they are with holding information and manipulating you. But, lets face it...did you really expect her to come clean about everything right away after all the crap you already knew she had spewed?

I got TT 18months after Dday. Nearly more than a year after he last had to work with the AP. Why? Fear. He didn't want me to know. He didn't want to hurt me. Yes, he was being selfish too. He was worried about losing me.

The point is, you could probably expect more as the months move on.

On the other hand...for some of us this is a deal breaker and no matter if we could get back our M or our lost spouse...it will never be enough to overcome our pain and betrayal. AND, that is okay too. These WS knew the consequences of their actions and it us the BS that get to choose the next chapter. You owe her nothing.

But, please do not believe that you will not have what you want most in this world. There are others out there that would never betray a loved one. You see that here everyday. Do not give up hope or your capacity to love again. Do not give up on humanity.

A great book on healing and surviving. Truly inspirational and full of peace. A Grace Disguised how the soul grows through loss. by Jerry Sittser. I strongly recommend this. I found it more useful for me on a personal level of healing than any of A related books.

I like what Phillygirl wrote. That's exactly what I would do.

Good luck my friend.

Bigger. Thank you for saying she is there. Maybe its my mistake and I will pay for it in the end, but she is the woman I married.

I realize there is a lot of components to her affair. The TT was so painful. If what she wrote was indeed fantasy so be it. I'm not going to get into detail but reading what she wrote and how she felt about me and our marriage at the time. Devastating does not describe it, seeing her with him wasn't as painful. I have no doubt she was in unicorn land and was justifying her actions to herself, but damn that hurt. She shredded me in words and reading it just about did me in. After some thought do I believe what she wrote, not really. But she wrote it and there there had to be some real feelings behind it, right?

Phillygirl. Your right I've got to go forward. While I had hoped I would never be here, I am and I have to stay true to myself. I pray she gets better, I'm being a realist here. What she did to me is pretty terrible, but she is still the mother of my kids. I know I can get visitation and joint custody. But they will live with her and be with her a lot more than 50 percent of the time. She doesn't work and isn't going to have to work and honestly with her inheritance can take better care of the kids financially. That is her money I did nothing to earn it. I don't want it.

Can or will we reconcile, who knows. She has a ton of work to do, so do I. I'll admit I wanted to and probably rug sweep some things in an attempt to do so. This stuff is so hard and is a work in progress.

So I'm moving out, we have to be separated 6 months. I am not going far,just to the barn so I'm still at home and can see the kids everyday. We've agreed to have nc except for the kids. It's funny in a way. We were both so nice to one another. Like we were walking on eggshells or something. It was a weird feelings but it needed to be done.

I've gotten some PM's from some people on the WW side. They have actually helped me to understand what she maybe feeling. I think we both have hit rock bottom maybe. The only place to go is up. But we each have different paths to take to get there. Maybe those paths will cross and maybe they won't only time will tell. Time like you all have said over and over.

Swat, I'll be short but not too sweet. Remember, even though she is the mother of your children and was the love of your life, she is the one who because she has some deep-seated issues screwed things up big time. Unless and until those issues of hers are resolved, any reconciliation is walking through a mine field with a blindfold on. You might make it through, but the odds aren't real good.

What Crisp an Kajem said..

IMHO, taking a break from any decision making on the future of the M is not a bad thing.At this point in time, unless there is a pressing financial or custody issue, I would say be kind to yourself, don't pressure yourself one way or the other..You will know when you need to move on, whether it is R or D..

It is an individual preference as to whether one wants to live with his/her WS during this time though..

There is no doubt in my mind that your WW loves you SWAT. But.... She doesn't sexually desire you like she does the OM!!!

Her actions have shown this. I'm so very sorry.

Take care of yourself.

[This message edited by toby at 9:27 AM, June 5th (Thursday)]

i wouldn't put it that way. affairs are exciting. it's not a fair comparison. and you have to remember, she stopped the affair on her own over a year ago. doesn't sound to me like she's obsessed with having sex with the OM. in fact, most remorseful WWs who have come out of the fog say that the AP could have been anyone. It wasn't about the AP, it was about their own brokeness.

[This message edited by mike7 at 9:30 AM, June 5th (Thursday)]

Can or will we reconcile, who knows. She has a ton of work to do, so do I. I'll admit I wanted to and probably rug sweep some things in an attempt to do so. This stuff is so hard and is a work in progress.

The only place to go is up. But we each have different paths to take to get there. Maybe those paths will cross and maybe they won't only time will tell. Time like you all have said over and over.

You're about where you need to be. Just keep in the forefront of your mind that it is not just time, but what you do with it. I suggested earlier that you work on you. Become a strong individual, not defined by your M. Develop hobbies and interests that are yours alone. Love to join you for a round or two of golf. Just remember that Golf is a FOUR letter word. I'm sure you will be using many of them on the course.

Still got your back

Toby. Yeah that stings. Not sure why she did but she did. I know it is stupid to compare but how can you not. It brings me back to wanting to ask, why? Why wasn't I enough, why him of all people, why,why, and why? If she needed something so bad or she was unhappy just tell me. I would have tried to do anything for her.

I get there will never be a good answer to any of my questions and when I did ask she lied. For numerous reasons that at the time I'm sure she thought were legitimate. But right now there are things I just can't get past. Things in that journal she did not admit to. Things she wanted and aparently allowed him to do but would never allow me. That is difficult to take. At this point it really doesn't matter. I'm coping as best I can and I'm trying to get past the anger and hurt. But she shared things with him she wouldn't share with me. She says it was fantasy and those things didn't all happen. But she lied and how am I to know what is the truth and what isn't. That is what everyone told me in the beginning. I thought I understood and pushed for the truth. But like almost everyone, she lied. Maybe it was purely defensive or pure manipulation and calculated deception. That is the crux of the matter. I don't and can't know what it truth and what is a lie. I could go line for line through the journal and ask. She could look me in the eye and answer but I'll never know if she is telling the truth. I always thought I could read people I mean its what I do. But she got me good. I believed her and she fooled me. Talk about a blow to the ego. Here I am bad ass cop. I can tell when your lying, NOT.

Sorry rant over.