SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Sorry - duplicate post

[This message edited by WhatsRight at 4:47 AM, June 1st (Wednesday)]

Garry,

Possibly the best negotiation tactic I have ever adapted has been calling the other party‘s threat.

To use a simple example: If I want to buy a car and am only willing to offer 10k for it, knowing that it’s a fair market-price. If the seller refuses and wants 15k – way over the market value – I walk away. In most cases the seller calls you back. If not… well… you got out of a bad deal.

I see a comparable situation with your stepson.

Your STBXW is using him as leverage in custody and support and threatening you with removing him from your life. So call her threat.

Settle for the lowest spousal support you can. Don’t pay custody. Don’t offer to pay custody. Negotiate the lowest but fair amount you can and are entitled to.

Her tone will change. All of a sudden she will realize that since he’s your stepson then your obligations are minimal. Her inability to earn an income due to having to be at home with him all of a sudden isn’t your problem anymore because by HER decision he’s not your son anymore. She will realize that her threat has financial and social implications for her.

Now – she just might slack on her demands. She might be willing to negotiate. But personally I would prefer having the OPTION of placing $$$ in her/his account monthly to the OBLIGATION of being court-bound to place $$$ in his/her account. I would prefer paying minimum but having the option of adding some cash. Two reasons: Things change and I have control.

Fact is you don’t have a CLUE what the situation will be like in 2-3 years. She might have a new husband that’s really nice and kind to step-son and is rich. You might have the option to relocate to a different city for a great job. She might decide to live off the grid in the Yukon. You simply don’t know… It would be terrible to be obliged to pay support for all that time and not having any real control of the situation plus being tied by the past.

If she does remove him from your life… One thing you can do is pay “custody” to an account that you can offer him once he’s 18. Simply placing 100 per month will enable you to give him close to 15k towards school-fees.

I'm with Bigger... and so many others on this thread. It's so hard because I have three boys and I see your WW as unstable and that you would be such a good influence on this boy and have been so good for him... but...Your hands are tied and your WW doesn't really care about what's good for him so you would have an uphill battle every day.

But the worst part is when she told me that since I want to play hardball with alimony (probably from our last counter which was lower than before) she said I can kiss seeing her son goodbye. That I was hurtful to fight her on money to see him. Cause she can ruin me in court.

This tells me she isn't listening to advice from her lawyer, her parents, or thinking of her child's well being... she is mad at you and she want's to punish you even if it hurts her and her son in the process. I could see her renegotiating every visit on a whim or her mood regardless of what is decided in court. I could also see her slandering your name continually to everyone and your step son. You don't like being talked about but she seems to like the attention, playing the victim, the drama and hurting you. I just can't see her allowing you to be a good influence on this boys life...but I can see her making things miserable for both of you.

Lay low until the house is sold then do what Bigger says as far as support and start putting out feelers for that DC job you were considering. You are a wonderful person that has a lot to offer.

I mean she is the one that ruined this marriage yet I am the one that is feeling bad. I bet she is not really in such distress over it.

No....she is not.

It is a bitter pill to swallow learning that your partner was not vested in you like you believed. And now as things approach a finality, you take more notice of the comments that you received through the years about her faults that you simply could not/would not see. I am sure that your sister would have preferred to be wrong in her opinions of her sister-in-law, but unfortunately, she wasn't far off the mark...at least near the end of your marriage.

But I will assume that your WW was always the taker in the marriage---at least in the material world. It is still about money, and not the welfare of her child. You can't change this---like I said before, it's a bitter pill.

Sorry.

^^^What Bigger said!

Settle for the lowest spousal support you can. Don’t pay custody. Don’t offer to pay custody. Negotiate the lowest but fair amount you can and are entitled to.

Her tone will change. All of a sudden she will realize that since he’s your stepson then your obligations are minimal.

This is awesome because you maintain leverage as long as it is your choice and not a part of a court order. Sadly, it's strictly about leverage with her now. Actually it probably always has been, and she fell into the loving wife part through cognitive dissonance or something similar.

Freeme, you are right I probably would just be in some type of hell dealing with her and my step son. Maybe she is doing me a favor by acting like this now and not later.

She can hate me or talk about me I don't care anymore but I wish she didn't go there. I guess I was envisioning after the divorce I would still have him. And if she found another man and they were getting serious I would back away if that was the better move. I wouldn't have jammed her up with that.

But I just need to stop wishing and thinking things can happen. Its over all of it and I need to just accept it and let it go till its signed. What I don't get and I see on here with other peoples situations is why do they get so spiteful? Just blows my mind that you can treat the other like that.

I did have to laugh at her pettiness. When I was getting the house together after she left I was putting my things away and such. I cant find this really nice watch of mine that she got me for Christmas couple years ago. It is a nice gift from her. Its not where I always keep that stuff. So I wonder if she took that when she moved out since it was from her. I mean at some point you gotta just laugh at this crap right?

What I don't get and I see on here with other peoples situations is why do they get so spiteful?

She already told you.

Because she feels you are betraying and abandoning her by leaving her. You told her you loved her and that was carte blanche for her to act however she wanted with no repercussions from her actions. You wouldn't leave her. You weren't allowed to have boundaries, let alone have any consequences for her crossing them.

If you have trouble wrapping your head around that, then good. You are healthier than her and her dysfunctional ideas about relationships.

But personally I would prefer having the OPTION of placing $$$ in her/his account monthly to the OBLIGATION of being court-bound to place $$$ in his/her account. I would prefer paying minimum but having the option of adding some cash. Two reasons: Things change and I have control.

Can't emphasis the above enough.

I went through that shit with my XW, told her she wasn't getting any more $ out of me other than what was legally mandated.

Of course, she tried to guilt trip me with "What about the children? Do you want them to starve? They get upset when you have nice things, go on vacation, and we can't." [Well, maybe she should get off her ass and get a job...but, I digress]

Fuck that noise. I'm not giving her money to spend on herself (clothes, bars, etc.) and nothing for the kids. If the kids need something then I get it for them. They know it came from me, not mom. But I can't buy them things, pay for college, etc., if that money is going to the XW, which may as well be a black hole.

You're at war with this woman. Blackmailing you, threatening you - let your lawyer do what they do. Turn loose the dogs of war (divorce).

(the "bad parent" is just claptrap. If that's the best she's got? And you've got her behavior the past few months? Really? My ex tried that. I gutted her like a fish with her bad behavior)

SquirrelFace, funny you mentioned that. She uses the word betrayal all the time. She says it about me that I am betraying her and her son by leaving or some form of that. She never once said she betrayed me with the affair. It was always termed as a mistake and I got caught up with the attention. I wasn't thinking about this or that. Just excuses.

I think part of the problem is I have always sucked it up if stuff bothered me not really making it a big deal. I think she wanted me to just do that with this. A person can only take so much.

Gary - you are doing so awesome it is inspiring! The difference between your tone and confidence now as compared to your first post are night and day. Just think about how far you have come and how much you have grown in that short. Also think about how far you will go in the future. There is someone out there that is worthy of you and you will meet.

Keep on keeping on!

She never once said she betrayed me with the affair. It was always termed as a mistake and I got caught up with the attention. I wasn't thinking about this or that. Just excuses.

Well if she wants to talk about betrayal...

Forget about the infidelity for a moment.

You brought protection and provision to your marriage. It was something your stbxw actively wanted you to provide. When you got your income reduced, you didn't lay around on the couch and give up. You went out and got a second job, yet she was embarrassed by that.

You wanted children. Something she is uniquely qualified to provide. Now you could have felt betrayed by her not providing it (and acted more like her), but you were a decent human being and were understanding of her pain.

I know I'm beating this horse into glue, but do you see what I'm saying?

Not all women are like her. You are going to make a deserving woman feel very lucky someday.

Sananman, thanks for that. It is good for me to stop and remind myself that as its easy to get lost in all that is going on. Some days I don't believe that but I know I have made progress but still have stuff to fix on.

I do feel the people here were a big help. It gave me the help to make a move. I don't know what would be going on if I didn't see so much what people have gone thru. Who knows I might be with her now eating crap sandwiches or something.

SquirrelFace, thanks and don't worry I don't associate other women by my wifes actions. I see it on here and in everyday life so many great women out there that treat their husbands with respect and such. I do wonder how my wife will treat her next guy. I hope for his sake she has learned something out of all this.

Gary, I think it's pretty safe to say she has not learned anything from this affair. If she had, she would be making a true effort to get you back. Instead she feels this marriage failed because you could not forgive a very tiny mistake she made, namely, sleeping with another man for months in your marital bed!!

So the next guy that comes along for her will have the same outcome to look forward to. But, that is not your concern. Get yourself free of her and move on with your life. If you want to keep a journal for the boy, then do it. But be prepared for her to tell the little guy massive, horrible, lies about you. She seems to be that kind.

I hate that this happened to you. But am glad that you are moving forward with your life. I'm sure more positive things are ahead for you.

I do wonder how my wife will treat her next guy. I hope for his sake she has learned something out of all this.

I wouldn't count on it.

People rarely change. They only change when the fear/cost of change is outweighed by the fear/cost of not changing. Your stbxw is watching her meal ticket walk away. Something she values very much. She is pretty comfortable in not changing who she is. She'll treat him exactly the same.

The world is full of guys who would happily trade servitude for a bit of reliable sex. She will go after one of those poor bastards.

You are going to go on to demand more from your relationship partners and not settle for crumbs.

In order to learn from our behavior, we must take responsibility for it. Your wife takes no responsibility for anything she's done. She will not have learned a thing until she does. And she will never be a safe partner as long as she doesn't take responsibility for her actions. You are making very wise choices now. I know it's hard because you're a caring person but a year from now, you are going to be very glad you made the decision you did. She truly never deserved you.

I agree! She didn't deserve you. Still doesn't.

I'm so sorry you're in a low place with all of this,Gary, but I promise, it will get better. Glad you are keeping a journal for your step son. I'm so sorry she can't see past her own selfishness to think about what would be healthy for her son, but I'm not surprised. Unfortunately, she really only care about one person: herself.

You are doing great, Gary. One foot in front of the other. Just keep plodding along. Let your lawyer do what is in your best interest. Hopefully, someday soon, you will begin to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

SquirrelFace, you are right about that. She will probably find a guy that will give into her for that. To be honest it will be easy to do. I can say no complaints in that department just sad thing is I was not the only one getting that benefit in the marriage.

Tearsoflove, good points and spot on. She wont take it though. Like I have said here many times she has always been spoiled. I enabled it too and didn't help her there. Thank you for saying that too that I deserve better. I hope to see that come true some day.

StillStanding1, thank you, I am so appreciative of all the support you have given me.

[This message edited by Gary1995 at 3:59 PM, June 2nd (Thursday)]

Hi, I feel bad posting in here still as so many new people need help and I am no longer just finding out. Don't know if I should post on the Divorce or Separated section. I have been so grateful for the people in here you all been a big help. I try to chime in on others threads even though I am new I see some of what they are going thru.

But some people have PM me asking how its going so I wanted to provide some update. Couple of them my PM don't go thru so wanted to get something out so it doesn't look like I am ignoring them.

Still in limbo on the divorce being settled. After her latest accusations I have taken off paying for my step son. I am taking the advice of my lawyer and from people here. I am putting money aside for him on my own and give to him at a later time. My house is on the market had a open house on it so hoping that gets done sooner rather than later.

I didn't get that job in DC like I wanted. I was in the final 3 but they had to hold off on the job for some stuff so will call me when it opens back up. That was disappointing as I was so hoping to get way out of here. Oh well things could be a lot worse for me.

I miss my step son like crazy. This is by far the hardest thing on the separation. But until she stops using him as a money pawn I don't see that getting any better.

Haven't heard from my wife. Not directly but I did get a notice that did make me laugh in a way, you have to in these things. We used to share an account for things like open table reservations, flights, hotels and such. I got one confirming her invitation to this event at this bar place for people looking for fresh starts. I looked up the event. Its like a match.com but in person or some type of speed dating to network.

We are separated and getting a divorce so she is free to do whatever she wants. Just sucks that she is wanting to get in there so fast and we haven't even signed papers. Here I am still wearing my wedding ring and missing her sad to say but I do and she is looking for a new guy. Unreal.

and she is looking for a new guy.

no...she's looking for a new meal ticket.

Hang in there buddy

Why not try taking off the ring and begin referring to her by her first name. It's a small thing but significant. Helped me adjust. You're doing great, just remember to keep your eyes on the road in front of you more than behind you. The same ratio works for both driving and relationships