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They don't usually commit suicide from what I understand.

Not always true. If a narcissist is very entrenched into a certain persona and that is threatened to be exposed (and the level of exposure is significant to NPD) the NPD will often act like a cornered animal-very unpredictable, but wanting to save face. Some will do whatever it takes to keep from being exposed.

Dad, you know her best. If you think she'll harm your kids-talk to your lawyer.

Personally, I see her angry at you-not your kids.

Hugs,

Im concerned for the children as well.

Right now, her crazy is focused on AD. What happens once this divorce actually happens? She loses that control over AD?

I totally see her, at the *very least* using those kids to hurt AD. She is already emotionally abusive to the kids...Im worried it's only going to get worse.

I think you should have a full psychiatric evaluation ordered.

AD...you do NOT know this woman. Not anymore. And as she loses more control over you, she gets more and more insane. Im pretty sure you're sitting there shaking your head at me saying she would never hurt those kids..she's a good mother. STOP. She has already hurt those kids..and she is NOT a good mother. You have gotten a lot of response from moms on this thread. Im going to bet the majority of us would tell you she is a BAD mother. BAD. You must protect those kids.

Is that lawyer young/inexperienced?

Yes, both. She just got her license to practice and just opened her practice. She advertises "flexible" payment plans.

Friends, your comments about suicide, hurting the kids, etc. are making me nervous. She has expressed suicidal ideation when depressed over the years, but I truly cannot imagine this particularly deeply narcissistic person doing something like this. Yes, her NPD rage is directed solely and firmly at me. But I do expect her to shift into parental alienation eventually. It's already begun. (But that's another post.)

Will keep you apprised of any developments today.

[This message edited by Abbondad at 7:49 AM, March 29th (Saturday)]

Im pretty sure you're sitting there shaking your head at me saying she would never hurt those kids..she's a good mother. STOP. She has already hurt those kids..and she is NOT a good mother.

I don't think I've ever expressed that I believe she is a good mother. (Not arguing with you. :-) quite the contrary--she is a nightmare of a mother. Her actions have hurt our children. What I do believe is that she "loves" them, but sentimentally, like she loves our dogs and other creatures that cannot hurt her. So I can see her doing something that would "result" in hurting our children further; however, I do not believe she would do anything "to" them. Maybe I'm still being naive. I hope not.

In any case I will absolutely bring up the psych eval to my attorney.

Thank you, everyone, for following my case so carefully. All of you continue to be so important to me getting through this.

The cornered animal thing and her rage at dad is concerning. I don't think when kids are harmed in this way it's to hurt the kids, but rather to hurt the other parent.

Asking for a psych eval could hopefully identify if she is likely to behave in this way.

5454 asked

Crisp, would this be admissible? Specifically:

She doesn't recall entire conversations she's had with me, even emails."

It would be interesting at the very least. An e-mail sent directly to opposing counsel? Which could lead to:

can your attorney request a full blown psych eval?

What a can of worms. First, most judges would be pissed if a lawyer brought up this type of mess. Very uncivilized. The lawyer cannot (generally) be an advocate and a witness at the same time. You bring in that sort of communication from the lawyer and it opens up disqualification issues and likely further replacement of counsel with more delays. It also brings in the issue of the sanctity of settlement discussions. Generally, statement made in the course of settlement discussions are inadmissible in court. But it goes beyond that. Courts don't want to hear about settlement discussions even in pleadings unless there are extraordinary circumstances. I am not saying that this situation, and maybe the email, should not be put in front of the court. What I am saying is that before such a SERIOUS step is taken, much thought should be given. There are land mines all over this one.

She is now claiming she will sign IF I give her the lazy boy recliner--"Daddy's Chair." The one that will absolutely upset and confuse our children to see her boyfriend in it.

And if I take it she says I "MUST" pay her $500.00.

So:

Give her the chair?

Or

Say enough is enough--let's take this to trial?

Her attorney now indicates she will represent her at trial--but doesn't want to; she wants to get this MSA signed.

Buy her an identical chair? Just to shut her up? If she argues, she will have to admit that she's a lunatic.

I say no to the chair, but thats just me. I am not in your shoes.

But it will never end. Never. If you keep giving in to her. And when you are a couple days before a trial I would NOT be talking to her or taking any calls. Your silence to it all should speak volumes to her.

Crickets from here on in Dad. Don't give her an inch or the chair, jeezus. She's completely lost the plot...

Ok AD. A bit of a 2x4 here.

She does not care that it will confuse or upset the kids to see her boyfriend in their dad's chair.

She.does.not.care.

She is doing this out of spite. She is doing this to hurt you. That is ALL this chair bullshit is about.

She had an affair with OM. She waffled back and forth between the two of you for several months. She is now living with him, and the kids will be there half of the time, living with this SOB. And she wants to take a chair away from you that was a GIFT FROM YOUR CHILDREN..and give it to OM.

RYFKM???

Why are you asking if you should give her the chair? It was a gift from your children. What will that tell your kids?

Hell no.

HELL NO.

Take this bitch to trial. Lay her crazy out for everyone to see.

Don't, for one more second, consider giving her/OM your chair that your children gave to you. Don't do it.

I'm curious as to why you are willing to give into her ridiculous demands to avoid a trial? I would think that she will be unable to avoid showing the court her true colors and that should be very good for you.

You've done nothing but make concessions for her craziness. She just keeps trying to prove to you that she is in control and she pulls all the strings.

Go to trial and let her put her craziness out there for everyone to see!!! IMHO.

^ this. "See you in court, you sad madwoman."

AD, please, for your own sanity, cease ALL communication with your STBX at this point. She should communicate with your atty if she has an MSA proposal but not directly with you. She is NOT going to sign the MSA anyway, whether or not you give her the friggin' LA-Z-Boy or the $500 (and I wouldn't, BTW - that's just dirty pool on her part, IMHO). At this point, I suspect that if you offered to cut off your left nut and present it to her on a sterling silver platter it would not be sufficient appeasement to her warped sense of entitlement and ego-fueled rage. Let the process proceed to trial - you simply cannot negotiate in good faith with crazy.

"I'm sorry, my lawyer is the only one that can talk to you about the agreement." *click*

Do. Not. Talk. To. Her.

You are days away from court. She keeps asking for things. The TV. You say yes. Then other things. You say yes, trying to get this done. Now, it's he chair, that was a GIFT. If you say yes, she will demand something else.

You need to stop, NOW. You are done talking to her. She will NEVER stop. It's time for court. Period.

The time for her to be making demands is OVER.

Focus on achieving your goals as quickly and as cost effectively as you can. What postures will get you there? Based on what you have said to us in the past, I recommend you now play hardball.

You have predicted that she would not sign. You have made concession after concession and she has not signed. You have been proven right. It is apparently not about the chair, the TV or any other specific possession. So what is another concession going to get you?

Pull back and maybe, possibly, a deal can be made on the courthouse steps. Prepare for trial.

[This message edited by crisp at 2:14 PM, March 29th (Saturday)]

No chair. You give her the chair then she will jut move on to her next ridiculous demand. She just wants to maintain control and watch you dance. Fuck that. Let her tell the judge that she would have signed the MSA that SHE created, if only you gave her a chair that was a gift from your kids.

crickets. She signs HER MSA or you go to trial and let her unravel in front of a judge.

Stay strong

You give her the chair then she will jut move on to her next ridiculous demand.

This.

No chair. No $500. Nothing else.

Go silent and take it to trial.

Didn't she say she'd sign if you agreed to take $500 in CS? She didn't.

Now she wants a chair?

It is not going to stop. Take it to trial and end this farce of "negotiations".

ETA:

You're worried about a trial wiping you out financially, but at the rate your CSTBWW is dragging this out, you'll go broke paying lawyers fees anyway. She'll keep this up for 10 years if you let her.

[This message edited by GabyBaby at 2:27 PM, March 29th (Saturday)]

You can survive a trial, my friend. I survived it. Others here have survived it. Avoiding a trial should not be your ultimate goal.

AD, I am with the others. When she makes it about something as petty as a chair, end all negotiations and get to trial. You have a good attorney and a good trial position. End the circus of negotiations now.